On trial...

Not so long ago our dear History MOD Syraa posted a thread on who you thought were the villians of History.

Soon I will be naming and shaming some of those villians, or perhaps proving them not so villainous afterall. Here I will present a selection of some of histories most universall Villains and giving an in-depth insight into what we know and did not know about them.

I dont plan on vindicating anyone nor do I plan on passing any serious judgement the aim is simply to present people as they were and let the people who want to learn more about them find the ultimate decision in thier own minds. We are not here to pass judgement becuase some of those people have long passed any judgement, we are here merely to learn and to prove that deep down many of these demons were sadly mere men and women.

As Voltair famously said “Were it thus that we could say all evil men were devils, but no the tragedy is that they were men!”

I will present to you the first historicall Villain in my next post and we shall look at his life in detail, his deeds both good and bad and the many portryals of his life for it is an echoe of our own times… nowadays we hear in the Media “One mans terrorsit is anothers freedom fighter!” thus we begin with a legendary figure of controversy and I look forward to guiding you all through the dark depths.

I must caution those of sensitive nature to perhaps be aware the following posts will be presented with no stone left unturned, descriptions of the following personalities can be taken with a pinch of salt, but most of the gore and horror is going to be upsetting for some. I will try and give you all fair warning of it and will highlight such parts in red… that way if you dont want to kow you can skip that section.

Very well we shall prepare to bring you the first Villain.

Order, Order! :smash:

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And whatever Faris won't be doing, i.e. judging and passing on personal prejudice, I shall gladly do so.

Thank you

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Your most welcome to merey bhai :)

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Jokes aside I think it will be a lot of fun to read about such people. They are painted as very bad people who did nothing wrong but there is a method behind the madness and the fact that these people got such masses to follow them has a lesson in leadership itself.

as the khawat goes " achi nasihat (advice) jahan se bhi mile le lo, moti ki qeemat lagate hue yeh nahi poochte ke use nikaalne wale ki zaat nahi poochte"

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Very well May I have everyone attention please. :smash:

We shall begin the first hearing.

The man I present to you all tonight is a man who is as much a myth as he is a real figure. For he is a man who has become Synonamous with the name** Dracula**… Gothic Organ Chimes

No that was not a typo, no this is not a mockery of History. Dracula was as real as those who read this post he was a man of flesh and blood like any of us today.

Dracula itself is not the name of one man, it is rather a title. It means Dragon in Romanian or in some dialiects of the Mediaval period Dracula also means Devil. :x2:

Some of you may have read the novel or seen the films… others will smile inwardly and knowingly for it is known that the Dracula of Myth was based on the 15th Century Wallachian (Romanian) Prince known as Vlad Tepes. In English that means Vlad the Impaler.

Some of you may even know the nature of this man… but how many of us know the true Dracula?

Who was he how did he get the names he is known by?

What made him so evil…? Why did he do what he did…? Is he really the Demonic Villain history says he is?

These and many more questions will be answered on this man… but first before I give you all the gory details in depth… I want to know how much you know about him… or how much you think you know?

In the end I will present all the case for him and against and we shall see wether this man is truly the Demon he is made to be or if it really is just a bloody myth.

Stay with us… and dont scream.

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Well it seems either nobody has heard or nobody cares… :naak:

Either that or nobody is visiting the History section anymore and I am toiling amidst my dusty tomes and just getting as old as my surroundings here… :cb:

Anyway if you did not know heres a few facts on the Dracula of Myth and what he really was. I continue with my story of Vlad the Impaler 1431-1476

As I have already pointed out the Dracula name was merely a title which originated from the word Dracul and was adopted by Viviode Vlad the second to make him Vlad Dracula. He was forced to accept vassal status and send his two legitimate sons as hostage to the Turkish court at Edirne.

Here is the most popular Painting of Vlad the Impaler.

Here the two boys Vlad (who would become the Impaler) and his younger brother Radu were taught to be loyal vassals of the Turks. Radu liked his tutors and ended up jumping at the chance to join the winning team. Vlad on the other hand was more patriotic and showed his rebbelious side to his captors… not wise becuase the Turks sent him to Tokat fort. Hoping to break this rebelious son of a prince the Turks may have subjected Vlad to cruel treatment but we can be certain that he learned much of the trade he was to become famous for, in the dungeons and torture chambers of Tokat Fort.

Upon the Murder of Vald the second his son was dragged out of his cell by the Turks and told how his father the loyal Vlad had been killed by his noblemen, his eldest son Mircea also buried alive. Vald was propped up by the Turks who invaded Wallachia and put Vlad on the seat of power…

The result was that in the three periods in which he ruled Vlad came to be known as Tepes (Impaler) by his own people and Kaziklu Bey (Impaler lord) by the Turks. The name came from his famed prefference of killing enemies and anyone who incured his displeasure by using the stake.

Offcourse this cruel and terrible method of execution was used since ancient times… but Vlad took it to terrible proportions.

But was he really this cruel or were the stories much made up by his opponents mere propaganda. In fact unlucky for Vlad the Impaler, his life was one in which the printing press had been invented in the German states and other parts of Europe. Just his luck that one of the first popular subjects of mass produced litrature were horror stories of Vlads actions and all this was published while he was still alive.

Vlad is also known thanks to the recent book Dracula popular fiction in the last century by Bram Stoker. However Stokers work is completely unrelated to the real Vlad and mentions him in perhaps a five line passage… Stoker however was writing a horror story that was already old news.

Heres some accounts of the real man. I advise those of sensitive nature to skip the section of red it makes very frightfull reading.

**One of his earliest actions was taken against the nobles of Tirgoviste whom he held responsible for the deaths of his father and brother. According to an early Romanian chronicle, in the spring of 1457, Vlad invited the nobles and their families to an Easter feast. After his guests had finished their meal, Vlad’s soldiers surrounded them, rounded up the able-bodied and marched them fifty miles up the Arges River to Poenari, where they were forced to build his mountain fortress. His prisoners labored under very difficult conditions for many months. Those who survived the gruelling ordeal were impaled. **

"He had some of his people buried naked up to the navel and had them shot at. He also had some roasted and flayed. "

“He captured the young Dan [of the rival Danesti clan] and had a grave dug for him and had a funeral service held according to Christian custom and beheaded him beside the grave.”

“He had a large pot made and boards with holes fastened over it and had people’s heads shoved through there and imprisoned them in this. And he had the pot filled with water and a big fire made under the pot and thus let the people cry out pitiably until they were boiled quite to death.”

“He devised dreadful, frightful, unspeakable torments, such as impaling together mothers and children nursing at their breasts so that the children kicked convulsively at their mothers’ breasts until dead. In like manner he cut open mothers’ breasts and stuffed their children’s heads through and thus impaled both.”

**"He had all kinds of people impaled sideways: Christians, Jews, heathens, so that they moved and twitched and whimpered in confusion a long time like frogs. **
**“About three hundred gypsies came into his country. Then he selected the best three of them and had them roasted; these the others had to eat.” **

If you think most of that was made up, it is not even close to his most horrific acts. Vlad was most famous for having created a forest of impaled corpses, so frightening was this sight that the Sultan Mehemt the Fatih (conqueror of Istanbul) was forced to pull back his army horrified at this site which would have been as scary as a Nuclear weapon in our times.

Over the centuries however Vlad has had many depections and some are obviously lies and here is the opening passage of one of the Paphlets published about him.

The Frightening and Truly Extraordinary Story of a Wicked Blood-drinking Tyrant Called Prince Dracula.

Such sensationalsim is the reason that his forest of stakes attrocity has swelled from a few hundred corpses to tens of thousands.

Here are the facts.

There is not a scrap of evidence to support that Vlad ever drank or even came close to drinking blood.

Vlad was not a count he was actually a nobleman of greater rank equivalent to a Prince.

His barbaric cruelty was not as unique as it seems contemporary rulers used eqaully brutal means against thier people. Ivan the Terrible is far worse than Dracula ever was and yet he gets much less attention.

Vlad was the last of the Order of the Dragon a long finished order of Crusaders originally created to fight a holy war against the Turks.

Vlad was a powerfull ruler who is loved by his own people and feared by his enemies.

Bran Castle was not his home, if anything it was built long after he had passed away. In fact the real Castle Dracula is the ruins of Peonari Castle much further North.

http://www.travelswithsheila.com/castle2.jpg

Here is the Classic image of Dracula’s Castle.

This is the Real thing.

Dracula was not from Transilvania he ruled the Principality of Wallachia now part of Romania.

So what can we summarise about this man?

While he certainly was not the blood drinking count of fiction… he certainly existed and perhaps deos deserve his title but he is not as bad as the books make out.

I hope nobody has nightmares after this. Becuase oue next historical Villain is just as dramatic and well known and much worse. :eek:

Look forward to seeing you guys again soon and thanks for reading.

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Faris I am here ... uff its like behro mein bansuri bajana .. bad zauq log

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Great read faris .... and excellent research

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Thanks for your Support libranrulz. :lifey:

Sometimes I think that i’m howling at the moon, but like my other passions i’ll keep it alive even if I’m the last one on Earth.

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No no trust me ... its a lot of fun to read these things. Its just not spicy enough for hte MIL SIL crowd

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Hmmm maybe my next personality should be a MIL or SIL character! :rotfl:

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LOLL farkhunda ki MIL bohat evil thi ... and just watch the ppl flocking in

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The next personality to be put on Trial will be Joseph Stalin.

I look forward to the hearing. :smash:

All are invited to participate and contribute thier suggestions to this thread. I will sift through what I can and cannot find about this subject ad shall present you the basic facts as we yet again put a historical villian on trial and decide wether he really is as bad as they say? :hmmm:

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Did not know Dracula was based on a real person. Interesting. He clearly was barbaric in the way he treated those he conquered. While there may have been others equally or more cruel, Dracula does not appear to have any redeeming qualities.

Personal judgment - villain.

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^ Cant help but agree with you on that verdict. His own countrymen regard him as we Desi people regard the likes of Tipu Sultan and Udham Singh. But were those men had some mercy and sense of honour Vlad Dracula had no such mercy and even his own most loyal supporters see him as a tyrant so I guess yeah he really was the sort of Villain nobody dared to cross.

But you cant help but feel that men like Stoker and the Medieval Publishers of the early pamphlets were just as vile for spreading lies about him... as I said all that blood drinking business was totally made up and theres not a shred of evidence to support it.

I wonder how people will see my next choice, in my humble opinion Vlad Dracula was nothing compared to Stalin.

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LOL nicee i would love to see how stalin was if vlady doesn't hold a candle to him

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Nice read Farris :k: I am amused to read that Dracula was a real person.But even he didn’t drink blood but he still was villain. Sometimes consequences make human beings do dreadful things because of all the negative thoughts stuck in them. If you don’t have faith it is really hard to bring positive in oneself and “Dracula” was a monster.He had no faith, no mercy for people.

I can’t wait to read about Stalin.

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Well heres a few quick facts about the vile dictator Joseph Stalin and why I could argue he might be far worse than Hitler was… though personally both deserve a good :sannan: in this world and definately if theres any Justice in the next world.

  • Stalin’s crimes have slipped under the carpet since he was among the Allies mid-way into World war 2.

  • Stalin used fammine and mass deportation as political tools to opress his own and other nations.

  • Like Hitler he came to be worshipped almost like a living God.

  • Stalin is held responsible for a mass holocaust of Jews and several Pogroms but these have again been swept under the carpet.

  • Stalin was not just a Dictator he was one of the slimiest political masterminds this World has ever seen and survived scores of assasination attempts just like his counterpart Hitler.

  • Stalin is celebrated in Russia as a hero even though he may be one of the cruelest Tyrants this World has ever seen.

  • At the hieght of his power he is said to have ordered the execution of over half a million subjects simply becuase he did not like them… :eek:

Are all these accusations true? Or are these facts nothing but propaganda?

As I have already shown with the case of Dracula, the reality is often blurred with the myth. Dracula lived 700 years ago but he has a lasting legacy to this day… Stalin is much more recent but he is fast disapearing behind the veil of time and I believe we need to unmask him before he slips us again.

And as ever I will continue to break down and analyse what is known about this figure and search the very depths of the Historical record.

Strangely it was much easier to research Vlad Dracula than it is to research Joseph Stalin. There is just so much contradiction, claim and counterclaim that the truth and the myths get muddled.

I will sift into it and present my findings as soon as I can in the meantime feel free to discuss the subject at length and even suggest other personalities you think we can put in the docks.

And not all will be villains becuase even in the darkest hole there is always a glimmer of light… just as in the purest cut diamond there is always that spot of dark.

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I’ve been busy with exams these past few weeks and I just had the time to read through this thread. Please continue to post…the topics are so interesting and you write extremely well :biggthumb:

I knew Dracula was based on a real person…I remember reading a book on Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia and how he was said to have inspired the Dracula story.

Did you know that Stalin (apparently) ordered the murder of his own wife just because she embarrased him in public…he made it look like suicide. Such a terrible person.

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Yeah I heard about that too… Not sure if it was genuine though. Indeed I am working on it though as soon as I can get enough sources to agree on things I will write my full findings thing with research is you cannot always go by one source alone… no matter how much you might hate the subject, you have to really keep an open mind at least while researching.

I try not to be too opinionated otherwise the subject becomes bogged down in trolling… afterall there is a Hadeeth in Islam in which Rasoolallah Salalaho Alayhi wassalam forbids that one should not dishonour even the dead for one must remember you might end up meeting them at some point… :eek:

Hence why I try to keep facts as certain as possible.