Sikh clergy silent on banning girls wearing skirts
AMRITSAR: The Sikh clergy continues to maintain a stoic silence over the controversy regarding banning entry of young girls clad in jeans or skirts into gurdwaras run by the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandik Committee (SGPC).
The dress code issue was not taken up for discussion at a meeting of the five Sikh high priests here on Monday evening, Akal Takht jathedar Giani Joginder Singh Vidanthi told reporters after the meeting.
“We did not discuss the dress code issue as no formal representation has been made before the Akal Takht on this subject.”
The Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Managament Committee (DSGMC) had recently taken a decision to ban jeans or skirt clad girls in gurdwaras in Delhi. The DSGMC had also appealed to the Akal Takht jathedar to impose a similar ban.
Giani Joginder Singh Vidanthi said a number of issues related to Amrit Parchar (baptism) and ills that had crept into Sikhism were discussed at the meeting. However, he refused to elaborate.
The much talked about issue of banning partaking of langar (food in community kitchens) in gurdwaras on tables and chairs was also not discussed by the priests. Former Akal Takht jathedar Bhai Ranjit Singh had imposed a ban on the use of tables and chairs in gurdwara langars after he received representations that this was being practised in some gurdwaras in the West.
Those who attended the meeting included jathedar Manjit Singh of Keshgarh Sahib Takht, jathedar Giani Kewal Singh of the Damdama Sahib Takht and Harmandir Sahib and Akal Takht head granthis Giani Mohan Singh and Giani Bhagwan Singh respectively. SGPC secretary Gurbachan Singh Bachan was also present.(UNI)
contrary to the rosy picture rani has been portraying here about sikhism and other cults and blaming Islam for dress codes. this comes as a complete surprise to me.
as a muslim i can enter into any mosque wearing jeans and a shirt… similarly women can wear shirts and clothes that cover them be it jeans and a shirt and no one can stop them from entering into a mosque of their choice.
i wonder what prompted these sikh leaders to enforce a dress code? i dont blame them though… they wouldnt want to preach among half naked nasty looking folks dancing around singing “hare hare ram ram”.
All religious places of worship enforce some kind of dress code. There is nothing unordinary about that. That’s why I (mundyaa, note the “I”) am against religions. I think it should be free for all. People should wear what they like to Mosques, Temples, Synagogues, Churches, etc. Now imagine a naked man leading Nimaz.
If there is such a thing as God (or Gods), I (mundyaa again) doubt that s/he cares what anyone wears. It is all in the inside.
I think it should be free for all. People should wear what they like to Mosques, Temples, Synagogues, Churches, etc. <<
now read ur next line
Now imagine a naked man leading Nimaz. <<
thats some oxymoron. u oughta form another cult like mirza and preach naked prayers get some blessings from everyones lord lingum here. and make kamasutra ur bible. like mirza die in ur own filth and be a laughing stock and a source of entertainment for all of us.
The leading of Nimaz part was only for Molvess. Not for others. You missed the point.
Imagine a Mulla naked leading Nimaz and see if in your God’s eyes a Naked Mulla who is more sincere in his (can’t use her, because only a Male can lead prayers. May be in a few more years there will be equal opportunity for all) convictions than a fully covered Mulla, with all black robe and stuff, who is a big hypocrite, views his own self and others like him superior, is racist, blames non-Muslims for everything, etc., etc.
Now let me know which Mulla will your God prefer? Naked or Dressed.
Now Imagine again.
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 18, 2000).]
Ya'ar, have you become a fellow modernist?
Sounds like it, when you say:
"as a muslim i can enter into any mosque wearing jeans and a shirt.... similarly women can wear shirts and clothes that cover them be it jeans and a shirt and no one can stop them from entering into a mosque of their choice."
Really? Can you quote me your Sharia'h laws that is being based in your above statement?
All religious places of worship enforce some kind of dress code. There is nothing unordinary about that. That’s why I (mundyaa, note the “I”) am against religions. I think it should be free for all. <<
u wanted a religion less cult that was free to wear what it likes. well i guess it didnt work out... did it? :) i mean u wouldnt want ur family women to be a part of this cult? facing naked men and their lingums? so that was a dumb thing to say.
One more time: Would your God rather have a decent undressed Mulla leading Nimaz or a pervert under a long robe? If you can’t answer this, then go and suckup to your Ulma-e-Ikram, may be some Fatwa can be worked out.
<<
whats wrong with God wanting a molvi with a proper dress AND the one on the right path. so if there is a crook in a long robe.... he will be taken to task for his crookedness..... atleast he wont be punished for exposing his lingum to everyone. GET IT?
No Mundyaa, I don’t get it. In all honesty I don’t get it. There are aboriginal tribes in many parts of the world that live naked, and pray naked. Their God (or whatever they call him or her) does not care what they wear or not.
You are just assuming that “your’s” is the only God. That assumption in itself is an assbackward conjecture.
Secondly, I don’t care what the females of my family wear. It is not upto me to dictate things as what they should wear, eat, or do. They are as much capable of making decisions for themselves as anyone else. They will always be related to me whether they go skinny dipping or pray 20000 times a day. My relationships are not based upon lousy dress codes. Are yours?
You made a bold statement for all Islam when you said:
"as a muslim i can enter into any mosque wearing jeans and a shirt.... similarly women can wear shirts and clothes that cover them be it jeans and a shirt and no one can stop them from entering into a mosque of their choice."
I agree with what you say re: muslim prayer dress code & equal access for both men & women; BUT according to the 7th century Sharia'h laws that would be haram. That is why I asked you if you knew what the shariat for prayer dress code is for the followers of Sunnah?
NY - He and others like him are stuck in the 7th century with its 7th century Sunnah!
Why don't you read mundyaa's post again. Where does he say anything about prayer dress code? he is talking about "entering a mosque". A woman (or man) however she/he is covered and as long as she/he is covered may enter a mosque, be it in shirt, pants or shalwar kameez. Islam is about being covered, not about style of clothing, as you know islam is in many cultures and regions so they would obviously have their own style of dress that is different from the 7th century arabs dress. I have seen many times when I was in university, in the mosque, girls in pants and shirts with the hijab on to prey, what is wrong here and what is your point? it is ok today as it would be ok in 7th century also.
Can you provide us with shariah laws banning women or men from coming to the mosque who are properly covered in jeans and shirts? I dont think jeans/shirts existed in 7th century, ok, properly covered in foreign outfits, not the traditional arab ones, any evidence?? where the hell does it sayit is haram or was haram? Islam is unversal and was meant for all of mankind and for all time. There is sunnah (what is preffered) dress but it doesn't mean islam prohibits different styles as long as the requirements are met. Get it?
Going back to the original topic, I have seen that sikh women from religious backgrounds always have their heads covered. I would be interested in input from Rani or Chanmahi on this, considering some of the views they have expressed in the past.
Strongman,
Don't try to impress me by twisting words.
So, the discussion on Sikhs & gurdwaras and Mundyaa's quote on mosques have nothing to do with prayers. What is he entering the Mosque for? To play Russian Roulette?
All sharia'h laws reflect 7th century including dress codes for prayers. Obviously, you do not follow it! Maybe, shariah laws are meant only for women.
There is dress code for those leading the prayers and saying the prayers. And, it reflects 7th century. Kapish!
Would your God rather have a decent undressed Mulla leading Nimaz or a pervert under a long robe?
This is a bit of a red herring. of two maulvis leading namaz, which one is more likely to be perverted, the one clothed or the one naked?
Hypotheical situations where some naked maula might be an angel deep down is neither here nor there. Even in the Land of the Free, men and women don't walk round naked in public, never mind in churches or mosques. There's probably a good reason.
Intersting news. But only a clip of news not the whole story.
DGMC has no authority to force any kind of rules on Sikhs. The president of the management committee is trying to score some points...or thinking to score some points against hi opponents by declaring such things. The management committees are to amnage the gurudwaras not make rules for Sikh populance. From the news that followed the news posted by Mundayaa( and he has not probably read it) this political motivated tactic went against him. A wide spread condemnation came from other Sikh leaders and preachers.
There are only 3 rules that apply to any one entering the Gurudawara
head has to be covered( it does not mean to wear turban etc.just cover witha piece of cloth...I usually do with my rumaal)
Shoes has to be taken off
One has not to be in possession or under the influence of any nasha, intoxicant etc.
Other than anyone can go there, male female, skirts, pants, shalwars whatever....sikh muslim, hindu, christian etc...does not matter. NOw technically you can say that only head has to be covered meaning one can go naked with head covers. Well in that case you think a sincere person will do that? unless he/she is mental? In that case it is not a matter of religion but someone on his/her way to the religious place will take care of it:)
In our local Gurudawara some gora and goris are regulars as they like the free food they get in langar. They cover their heads and take off their shoes like everyone else.
Although I believe religious places just like many other organisations(blue/white coats of medical workers, special gear worn by cleanroom workers in some industries, black coats worn by lawyers, uniforms worn by military and other organisations while on duty etc), have the right to dictate the behaviour of people visiting the places. But thats where their this right ends...right in the walls of the place. Outside in society.....people are free to do wear or do whatever they want. Its their choice.
Xtreme, everyone going to the Sikh gurudwara has to cove the head as mentioned in my previous post.
Sikhs are supposed to keep their hair and also to cover them. Thats why you will see also some baptised sikh women wear small turban like clothes on their head.....women covering their gead with dupatta or chunni is also a tradition of North India(mostly Islamic influence in moderation).
Why don't you share the 7th century dress code laws from Quran or Hadith and prove that it is haram to wear a foreign outfit which meet the covering requirment in islam. Are you really this ignorant? so your saying only the 7th century arab dress is allowed for prayers? Most of the muslims of the world aren't even arab.
Whether it is for prayer in a mosque or just for going into a mosque. Where does it say different or foreign styles of outfit are HARAM??????
btw, not everyone enters the mosque for prayers, ever been to Badshahi mosque in lahore? or Faisal mosque in Islamabad? many just come as tourists or just to take a stroll. Although still modest dress is preffered for both men and women and yes, jeans/shirts are allowed also and nobody minds! Samjhe???
[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited July 13, 2000).]
Shaheen, what kind of jobs do you have available? I might be interested. As an employer you will win-out, as I wouldn’t ask for Uniform Allowance. Just tell me when the interview is. Should I wear a Tie to the interview? Also, I don’t like shaking hands, but you can touch.
Xtreme. My only point was that to each his own. If being Naked is considered uncivilized in certain societies, it may not hold true in some other. Religious and Dress Codes have less to do with morality and more with tradition. God (it, she, them, her, that, etc.) have no interest in what people wear. We, as a society, impose these codes upon ourselves. To say that Nudes have any less morals than those who are fully covered is a puerile proposition. I am not saying it is not against religion (as it is instructed in Quran), but I am saying is that that may be the “appropriate” way for Muslims to dress. It is not a free license to ridicule those who may dress differently, or just be naturalists.
Personally, I agree with mundyaa's recommendations on the dress code and equal access to mosques for males & females. But then, I am a modernist! Jazak Allah!
PRAYER DRESS CODES ACCORDING TO SUNNAH:
Q1) Must men at all times wear a kurtah. If yes, why?
answer) Muslim men are required to be dressed islamically at all times because they are muslim at all time. A muslim should not behave and act sometimes like a muslim and sometimes like a non-muslim. The demand of imaan is that the muslim be identified from a distance from his outward appearance and dress. It should be possible for any stranger (i.e. muslim) to be able to greet another strange muslim with the islamic salutation. If a muslim outwardly looks like a non-muslim, it will not be possible to say ' assalamu alaikum ' to him. but, rasulullah ( sallallahu alayhi wasallam ) commanded that muslims greet one another whether they be strangers.
Q2)How is it to perform salaat with a t-shirt and pants?
answer)It is makrooh tahrimi to perform salaat in such disrespectful attire. When the servant stands in the presence of his creator to commune with him in salaat, it is incumbent to be clad respectfully, decently and islamically. The thawaab of the salaat is destroyed by being dressed improperly. In addition, commission of a makrooh tahrimi act is sinful.
Q3)Our musjid imaam dresses with such a long kurtah which hangs below his ankles. Should we perform namaaz behind him?
amswer)It is haraam to wear the trousers or the kurtah below the ankles. The imaam in doing so is a faasiq. The salaat he performs is makrooh. It is the duty of the musjid's trustees to explain to him the imperative need for correct islamic dressing. If he refuses, he should be dismissed. Although it is not permissible to appoint a faasiq to be the imaam, nevertheless, the salaat behind him will be valid. If there is another musjid nearby with a better imaam, then switch to the other musjid.
Q4) It is nowadays becoming a trend among young men to perform salaat without topi ( islamic headgear ). Is this permissible ?
amswer) It is not permissible since it is in conflict with the sunnah to perform salaat with a bare head. In fact it is in conflict with the sunnah to wander around bare-headed. It is un-islamic to do so. It is the style of the kuffaar to remain bare-headed. Rasulullah ( sallallahu alayhi wasallam ) said that whoever emulates a nation becomes of them.