Old people

Lifestyle Relationships
21

Re: Old people

Tough question - I didn't cross my mind to put my mom and dad in an old home. I would ask them if they wanted. - if not I hope I am that strong a person that I can take care of them in their old age.

22

Hmm its a tough one. But I also feel sometimes the responsibility of taking care of older relatives often fall on one indiviual be it the son or daughter and their spouse. They would do whatever they can to take care of elderly and no one else in the family will offer to help but the minute the issue of nursing home comes every one just start doing haye haye.
Wasay is there a difference between what you will do for your own parents and parents in law?

23

Re: Old people

[QUOTE]
Wasay is there a difference between what you will do for your own parents and parents in law?
[/QUOTE]

Well, I live far away from my parents and closer to my in laws so practically I am in a situation to do more for them. My mom in law has had a few situations where she's needed extra care and I've been around to help her. It was a privilege and I know I have her blessings for that. However, I was unable to go take care of my mom during her surgery but my sister was there. But I know that if there is a need, I will make myself available. My MIL has always lived with us, she's just been away for some time, but she will grow old in our home as per her choice even though she has another son and daughters, because she is comfortable with us and is confident that in her old age, we will not have an challenges taking care of her needs.

24

I would do it. I've been helping my parents in the past as well when they were ill a few times, especially my mother, she started having health problems when I was still a teenager. In recent years our relationship has become negative, but if my parents would need help I would help them because they are parents. I would also help my old khalas, phoopies, chacha, mamoos, I'd help them all if they'd really need help, despite of what happened between us.

But for myself, I don't mind if I one day, as an old lady would live in a home for elderly people. Perhaps it's easier for me to make that choice, because I'm used to being alone a lot and I actually like that.

25

Re: Old people

They took care of you when you were babies, cleaned your diapers, gave you baths, then why can't you?

TLK if you want to be put into a nursing home than thats your choice but some parents want to die in their own homes with their families and if that means that a family member has to take care of them than so be it. I will never let my parents or his stay in a nursing home.

26

Phat .. you are right. That would be my choice about myself. I love my mom and take care of her and would never put her in nursing home.

27

Re: Old people

:nahi: TLK is being misunderstood here BIG time.

I don’t wanna go into details but I think for some reasons the bolded part above made other party furious.

It seems like “Saving the dignity” part is causing confusion. TLK used it as an extreme example where the assistance is required for stuff like toilet use, bath, change etc. , whereas the other party took the dignity part lightly and out of context and that how can one have such unhealthy relationship with their children and refuse them the honor and privilig to take care of their parents.

The confusion is understandable but the language used by realitycheck in his later post was just absurd.

Calm down people.

28

Re: Old people

If my hubby was not able to take care of me (or had passed away before me) and my health had seriously deteriorated, then i would personally want to be put into a nursing home… to avoid being a burden on my children.

BUT… if my parents were in such a situation, God forbid, then i would want to take care of them…

I am someone’s child, but i am also someone’s mother…the two provide me with very different outlooks and instincts… :hmmm:

29

Re: Old people

Appreciate that intoxicated ...

and I pretty much said what Maroush said. Its a different perspective when you look at your parents and your kids.

30

If bro TLK doesn't want help from his children it's fine with him and he has valid reasons, why do you want to turn this in a gunnah and sawab situation because I never heard that if a person doesn't expect help from his children he's a sinner?

PS: and now that you think TLK is old so its your Islamic obligation to respect him otherwise you'll be earning sins.

31

Re: Old people

Many desis have a very confused concept about western elders. I'll try to explain yet again.

In the west, the concept of independence is as vitally important to people as the concept of honor is to desi people.

Most elders would go to a nursing home - even a state run facility - before they moved in with their kids.

Since they are adults, their adult children have no say in this at all. Unless they become mentally incapacitated, they make their own choices and their adult children must abide by their decisions like them or not.

Additionally, many people have healthcare directives. Legal and binding documents that dictate what should happen in the case of mental incapacity. If their healthcare directive states that they go to a nursing/elder care faility, then thats where they go.

Sure you could drag them off to court and fight it....but would you do that when its made very clear that its vitally important to them?

My elder mother lives alone. Countless times I've asked her to live with us, countless times she's said no. Her healthcare directive states her wishes plainly also. She wants her independence at any and all costs and she has her legal documents to protect her right to have her wishes followed.

Me? Never in a million years would I move in on my sons when I'm old, even if I'm infirm. Its a parents job to change diapers and to give baths to children, not the other way around. And I'm not raising my kids so that I have my own personal healthcare team when I get old - I had kids to raise into independent, happy and successful adults.

The whole attitude about "dumping" a parent into poorly run, nightmare type of nursing homes against their will is nothing more than a false fantasy.

32

Re: Old people

as gina said, money cant buy the care people need, i wouldnt be comfortable with idea of nursing home for my or his parents. i've seen people hire a servant for tasks that are slightly difficult for daughters or daughters in law to do i mean liftin people or helping them change but they live with their children it offers them security and loving care.
that being said some elders tend to get abusive and it becomes a physical drain in that situation i wouldnt know what to do. ideally still have them in home but i guess many factors count.

33

Re: Old people

Croquet,
Your reply, like many others here, make the wrong assumption that the decision is completely in the hands of the children as to where and how their parents live. Maybe this is the case in Pak, but its quite the opposite in the west.

The parent decides where the parent lives, end of story.

34

mama i think the difference is in eastern cultures people donot cultivate independant lives that much. i mean my mother and mother in law both spent their lives revolving around their kids. they didnt socialise, no friends, just accquaintances. my MIL before she passed away was bed ridden and my husband did help her out as much he could. She disliked being bed ridden, she also disliked being physically dependant, we werent married then and she was my aunt so i was very close to her but very young about 12. I remember her distress and misery when she felt undignified being dependant on children for bodily help. However she was inhibited and shy individual so shifting her into an alien situation would've made it unbearable for her. She liked hired help to tend to her because she had only sons and wasnt comfortable. However she loved being surrounded by her family.That was her one last joy.
Its not the selfishness of elders rather different sets of values and socio economic situations. Religiously we are suppose to exercise patience with elders (its patience because obviously it hard for children) there is not restriction in hiring help for assistance. Most elders though like to be involved and about even when old. And as i said most women in our society spend their lives with their children, no concept of life outside so its not their selfishness that makes them count on their children. traditionally in pakistani society women donot socialise much, concept of purdah and domestic duties so that makes it inevitable for them to shift into nursing home. Secondly financial conditions, majority of people cannot afford even assistance let alone nursing homes.

35

Re: Old people

at the end of the day a person should try to do what is best for their parents, based on what the parents desire, and expert opinions if the parents are infirm and are better served in a special facility.

36

mama please dont take an affront on my views. my second post should clear up what i said.:flower1:

37

Re: Old people

Croquet, no affront taken at all! I enjoyed your post and actually the Desi way with elders makes more sense in Pak where there is little or no retirement planning or healthcare/elder support in place like there is in the west. Your points about the moms who are more isolated than the moms in the west was also a great point - they likely would be more comfortable living with family.

I only take affront to those who imply that westerners "dump" their parents when they get old....that is just SO not true.

38

Re: Old people

^i think its just an alien concept that they consider is inhumane without actually giving it a thought. if people generalise they do it at their own cost.

39

I am not going to argue about what way is better because it is not about what we think is best for us, the thread is about how theywould feel about it.

BUT you and me both know most people DO dump their parents in the nursing homes. If you dont believe me, visit one, volunteer at one. The look in their eyes, sitting their waiting for visits. Not being in their own homes that they spent entire lives making. Not being able to watch their grandkids grow old. I am sure you take care of yours but there are A LOT of people who dont.

40

[quote="PhatBalongri, post:25, topic:202465"]

I am not going to argue about what way is better because it is not about what we think is best for us, the thread is about how theywould feel about it.

BUT you and me both know most people DO dump their parents in the nursing homes. If you dont believe me, visit one, volunteer at one. The look in their eyes, sitting their waiting for visits. Not being in their own homes that they spent entire lives making. Not being able to watch their grandkids grow old. I am sure you take care of yours but there are A LOT of people who dont./QUOTE]

agree,

few years back an uncle of mine, (family friend), he was 60, got 'fallaj' and he was brought to a nursing home. because his family didnt wanto take care of him. the only thing they had to do was feed him and wash him. kitni jayedaat thi unke paas and he never spent it on hisself, lekin beti ko di, aur bhateejay ko etc etc, and at the end they 'couldnt' take care of him. not even his own wife.

yeh tau baat door ki, they didnt even bother to visit him regularly. many times i went there to visit him and saw the pain on his face, and he started to cry when seeing us. he wanted to go to pak and spend his last days there, coiffan mein udhr gaye.

offcourse not all people do so, lekin this was miserable. at that nursing home he was the only pakistani. there were quite some hindustani people, and i have never seen a smile at anyones face. they just sat there quietly. when one of them got a visit, the others would keep watching with a sad smile.

khana pakkay time pe milta tha, dry bread with peanut butter or so. once a turkish lady asked for bread, and the woman working there yelled at her ke its not time yet, stop whining...

aise halath the udhr. i dont wish that for anyone.