Errrrr if ya dunn wanna vote then dunn vote. quit yip yappin’ 
My choice is Adolph Hitler b/c he did something that 1+ billion muslims can't do...Elimination of Jews.
so long...
TS
That was a sick comment, not because you chose Hitler but because you think that killing people is such an honourable thing. Jews are human too and were created by the same GOD. If they were so unwanted, God could have eliminated them much before Hitler did. Grow up, dude
Dear TK-
I'm not surprised to hear your comments b/c there always have had a group of people who are impressed by rich jewish culture & heritage plus living in this society is nehley pey dehla. So I can understand your loyalty to them even you've tried to use the "human being" argument.
Your sympathy with jews being human is understandable but you've got to eliminate the part of the body which is affected by cancer and is going to affect the rest of the body.
And for why didn't God eliminated them, If the God would've had to do everything for us, what is the purpose of us being here TK!!!
Inna-lillah-e-wa-inna-elaihe-rajaioon.
so long...
ts26418
Why are you after the blood of Jews, what wrong they have done to you?. Collectively I think Muslims have done more damage to themselves and Islam than any one else. Look at Pakistan, Muslims are being killed mercilessly by Muslims on the basis of sect, race, language, polictical differences etc etc.. You can not blame for your evil actions on some one else. To day Jews are rich in education, money, more religious than Muslims, disciplined people. A great change is required in Muslims to match with their talents. What you have said is the out come of jealousy, which is not going to help any way.
Farid
[This message has been edited by Farid (edited 09-25-98).]
ts,
grow up .
SuperMan
Assalam O Alaikum
Farid sahab : I am really disappointed to see these comments from u
"To day Jews are rich in education, money, more religious than Muslims, disciplined people. A great change is required in Muslims to match with their talents"
Just tell me are there any true muslims in the world today. And for your kind information Muslims don't need to match themseleves with jews. Jews are not better than us. A Kafir cannot be better than a Muslim. But as far as the materialistic point is concerned. yes they are rich, and how they are rich we all know.(US Support) They are educated. (result of being rich) but if u say they are more talented than Muslims, to lalay jaag jao.
Farid sahab apnay religion say kareeb rehna chahiaay, agar ajkal hamaray mulk main fasad hain aur musalman musalman ko mar raha hay to us ki wajah hay (Jahalat, lack of knowledge), try to figure that out. Don't just say Pakistan main laraee hotee hay muslim muslim ko marta hay to bas jews are better than Muslims. They are Kafirs.
I will not go to kill them, but i will surely not make them my friends or my ideals.
TS : Was hitler a good man? agar kisi ko choose he kerna hay to kisi achay insan / achay musalman ko choose karo.
Wa ma alaina illalbalagh / Assalam O Alaikum.
ts,
That is truly a sick comment you made about jews>
And than we blame them for not trusting muslims(palestinians)
Farid,
I agree with you,Jews are a great nation,despite of adversities they have made a great come back.There contribution in science and financial sector is not matched by any other group.I wish muslims could follow there example.
I dont condone the stand of Isreal on palestnian issue.This is a perfect example of a victim turning into an oppressor.
I wonder what we would have done if we were in there place.
We muslims are close to the bottom ,among different nations on earth today.In education,finances(exept for oil,which did not take any effort on there part),morality,respect of individuality(as in freedom of having opinion,status of woman ..etc)and the list goes on,and all we can do is blame others for it.And delude our selves by inflated selfopinion,not to forget that putting others down is an important part of it to.
I am tired of the argument,that its because true Islam isnt practiced.Ever thought why,doesnt it simply mean that Islam is not truely practicable.
Please be objective, that is the only way to realize mistakes,and make appropriate changes.
Quark,
Thank you for your excellent comments on the subject matter. I also hope and pray that Muslims particularly Pakistanis would change their attitude and think in proper perspective.
Niaz,
Your argument about education is quite weak, In 1947, educated population was much smaller than what it is now. Even if your argument is accepted then who is responsible for this?
It is not only the education but also the environment created by corrupt power base, some time singing a song of Socialism and some singing a song of Islamism, in 50 years which has degraded and defaced the country.
sincerely,
Farid
[This message has been edited by Farid (edited 09-26-98).]
All my fav's in one place . . .
wow!
Assalam O Alaikum
Farid sahab aap key sawal main he aap ka jawab hay. Who is electing the corrupt leaders, the public, so it shows there lack of education on their part. I think each and every person in Pakistan knows that both PML and PPP are corrupt parties but then also we see either Nawaz or Benazir being elected.
Quark "I wish muslims could follow there example"
Lalay no need for that, hum bas musalman ban jaeen, that is enough to make us the best in the World. We have our religion and our own examples to follow :), examples which jews can never ever produce.
Does n e 1 disagree with that ???
Assalam O Alaikum!!
Niaz,
Haji saab,aap nay meri post ki aakhri lines nahein parhein.
One good thing is that we want the same, i.e betterment of our people,maybe we can broaden the spectrum,and include all the world rather than muslims only, in our good hopes.
Baat kithon langee teh kithey aa gayee. Anyways, Fraudia, I'm voting for Shah Faisal. To me he was the only person who dared to raise his voice against the west in a very civilized way. I wasn't in this world when the great person was alive, but I am impressed by what I have heard and read about him. My favourite : when the U.S. threatened to close their assistance and aid to Saudia, he said something like : What does it matter to us, we are bedous, we have lived in a desert with our camel all along, and that is where we shall return if God wills. Do whatever you want ! "
Furthermore his help to the Muslim world is unparallelled and I feel if there is anyone deserving the title from the East, it is him.
Ciao.
[This message has been edited by Umar Talib (edited 09-27-98).]
Stalan or Marx for Communism!
MR. FRAUDIA, WHY ARE U SO CONCERNED ABOUT WHO PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE FOR? EVERYBODY HAS GOT THEIR OWN BRAINS WITH THEM, AND NOBODY NEEDS YOUR GUIDANCE ON WHO TO VOTE FOR! GO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR!
I never meant to start an argument here but this if for Farid, Quark, TK, and others...
"Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth (that Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allâh brings His Command. Verily, Allâh is Able to do all things."
"Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikûn(see v.2:105), and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud."
"And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islâmic Monotheism) if they can. And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter, and they will be the dwellers of the Fire. They will abide therein forever."
"Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allâh tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.)?"
"O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islâm), Allâh will bring a people whom He will love and
they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allâh, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allâh which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allâh is AllSufficient for His creatures' needs, AllKnower."
"Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
How many reference do you require to know that Jews & Christians couldn't be our friends?
Do you know that US aid to Israel is $3 billion a year which amounts to $5000/person per year and this aid is used for???
Its not wise to accept Jewish supremacy because muslims are on the grounds and are responsible for their own downfall. In these difficult times, only FAITH prevails. So I would be faithful but would condemn our culture, society, and muslim leadership for what is suppose to be self destruction.
I didn't mean to kill jew wherever & whenevery you see them, but to fight them at any level is necessary for our cause. It could be science, technology, and the holy war faught for the sake of Islam & not to maintian the dictatorship like Arab-Israel war since 1966.
And Niaz- No muslim leader of this century deserve any title either QA, Shah Faisal or xyz.
The only problem with Hitler is, he was not a muslim....but he served the purpose.
so long...
ts.....sounds good
just another definite Ayah(with no difference of opinion):
"Allah forbids you from befriending those who fight you because of your deen, and those who have thrown you out of your homes. if any of you does (befriend them), they have truly trangressed" [tmq]
Peace be upon you!
Seems like you have based the discussion on koran, so i will leave my humanitarian points alone, and just talk to you in the language of koran itself.
the verses you mentioned, you should have reffered to the verse number and the chapter! becoz we can not just ignore the context of the verse.anyways, you are having a wrong approach towards how islam teaches us to behave with the jews or christians. you are doing nothing but giving people a point against islam.
when the world calls you terrorist, you need to tell them that islam is a religion of peace and not war.
anyways, those who were talking about american aid to israel, i will just go and start another topic, about american aid to "jehaad". you base you jehaad on the verses you gave in your post..then how come you forget the american aid to your jehaads? america is in the hands of jews isnt it? .. more on this in the other topic.
here are things to satisfy you:
And fight in the name of Allah, against those who fight with you, but aggress not: Allah loves not the aggressors.
(verse 191, chapter 2, the cow)
and now coming to the real verse,
(verse 90,91 chapter 4, Women)
".......take not to yourself any of them as a friend or helper; except those, that betake themselves to a nation who are joined with you by a compact, or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you, or fighting their people....if they withdraw from you, and do not fight with you, and offer you peace, then Allah assigns not any way to you against them."
i repeat,
"if they withdraw from you, and do not fight with you, and offer you peace, then Allah assigns not any way to you against them."
Here koran explains that when it says, take not any of them as your friends or helpers, than there are some of them who are exempt from this order, and in these cases, allah assigns us not any way against them.
Dear someone else-
*** "when the world calls you terrorist, you need to tell them that islam is a religion of peace and not war."
Tell them by blasting more bombs & killing more innocent people? Thats what the muslims are doing nowadays out of frustration.
*** "how come you forget the american aid to your jehaads? america is in the hands of jews isnt it?"
America don't give a damn about Jihad & muslims. It always seek its own interest. Military aid in Afghan war, Gulf war and other occassions WERE to protect their interests. Why should they waste their resources on this worthless nation of Islam who has done nothing except making this world, the hell?
*** "you are having a wrong approach towards how islam teaches us to behave with the jews or christians."
I don't know what you're trying to suggest here... so clarify how Islam want us to interact with Jews & Christians? and ONLY Quran'ic references and NO STORIES PLEASE.
Jihad... No such thing exist these days.
so long...
[This message has been edited by ts26418 (edited 10-01-98).]
someone else
As the first thingie in this string suggested. either go vote or dont thats upto you but quit yip yappin. I can always offer suggestions :)
Moi