Obsessed

[hiccup]

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@PyariCgudia

^ Mehnaz, isn’t that the whole point. For me, feminism is being able to drive myself the hardest that I can and no guy stopping me, in fact if anything, the male members of my family SUPPORTING me rather than not. Its being able to do what I like to do , which is multi-tasking, without being told … “PCG, you’re a girl, this is too much, you can’t do this”.

Only once ever someone in my life, and that too a woman - my phuphi - told me that I can’t play cricket with the boys. That year I had visited Pakistan I got my period and grew some breasts. Everyone had noticed. So, at my daadi’s house I was told to stay upstairs - I was not even let outside - and not come down because they knew I’d go str8 to my cousins and the neighbors’ boys and play cricket with them.

I was bloody furious. So for me, battling against this narrow thinking is my form of feminism applied to my life. If I was living in Peshawar, it would be a totally different battle in nature. Its all relative to WHO you are, WHERE you are, and WHAT the VALUES are of that area.

Essentially feminism is freedom of choice - what men already have and have always had. But women have perpetually not had.

The funny thing is this: in Muslim countries, women are facing probably the most oppression. And THAT as a feminist irritates me to no bloody extent.

Not perpetually. Women were once equals. It was the rise of Abrahamic faiths ie Christianity and the Church and consequently Islam and Judaism that helped control us by putting us in our place. Islam to a lesser extent. At least we were given the rights to our jism, our children and our land. kinda.

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@Miss_Mohabbat

This thread is like the carousel…your all just going around in circles and in the process forgetting that this is all about philosophy…you’d all make crap feminist philosophers

not me

[NeSCio]

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@hiccup

OK,you say that, the last century worth of stuggle was hardly waiting to be validated by a farigh doc.

hey come on, this is the first time i’m participating in a feminism thread. I see those popping up all over the forum like mushrooms, so if not already, do enlighten me on this subject

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Obsessed

In the original egalitarian societies, yes hiccup. Good point.

[NeSCio]

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@MehnazQ

Let’s put it this way, it’s too broad to narrow down into a rigid definition.

can we discuss it then? If it’s so personal that we can only give a slight glimpse of the personal definition we end up in an existentialistic discussion

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@NeSCio

hey come on, this is the first time i’m participating in a feminism thread. I see those popping up all over the forum like mushrooms, so if not already, do enlighten me on this subject

I already have, if you are more concerned about honing your debating skills than that is a different matter.

Feminisn: A struggle for equality. An an elimination of discrimination and curbing of freedom based on your sex. Applies to men too.

[NeSCio]

Re: Obsessed

@hiccup

Not perpetually. Women were once equals. It was the rise of Abrahamic faiths ie Christianity and the Church and consequently Islam and Judaism that helped control us by putting us in our place. Islam to a lesser extent. At least we were given the rights to our jism, our children and our land. kinda.

hmmm, interesting point. if they were equal why did women let this happen to them? Clearly if they were equal then you can’t say it was pressure they succumed to.

[NeSCio]

Re: Obsessed

@hiccup

Feminisn: A struggle for equality. An an elimination of discrimination and curbing of freedom based on your sex. Applies to men too.

to what fields of life does it apply? socially, economically, politically…physically?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Obsessed

Right and the reason the definition has different shades for everyone is because equality means choice - so its your choice what you want to do. For some, sitting at home and raising children qualifies as being feminist. For some, being happy with their hubbies qualifies as being feminist. For some, having a career outside the home qualifies as being feminist. As long as you are exercising you choice in your life without being mandated what to do.

Going back to female philosophers and why they always talk about feminism - I still disagree with that - the females that you see in philosophy are not always focused on feminism...in fact, the contemporary ones I've come across are active in Ethics, Existentialism, Analytic Philosophy, Socio-Pol Phil, and Phil of Science. And aside from like one or two that I've read in Ethics that took a female-perspective to ethics (one said something about how women are more ethical than men because our sense of family unit is different - I never understood her really).

You have to understand that feminism overall has been a recent movement and in many countries it hasn't even begun. So, its not surprising that even today, women are outnumbered in many fields. Science and medicine I think are caught up, and the other fields will catch up soon enough.

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@NeSCio

hmmm, interesting point. if they were equal why did women let this happen to them? Clearly if they were equal then you can’t say it was pressure they succumed to.

At one point in our deep history all men were equal. Then they became the enforcers of the faiths. And in their enforcing it is quite easy to see how one sex would want to take dominance over annother, after all what better way to ensure power than to couple it with religion and birth right.

Same applies to slavery. It is fact that at one point all men were equal. To keep them down they brought in little laws and religious fatwas to keep them in their place.

You only have to endoctrinate one generation.

Whz is mz kez board messed up like this on GS alone?

[hiccup]

Re: Obsessed

@NeSCio

to what fields of life does it apply? socially, economically, politically…physically?

Why should the right to freedom be limited to only certain aspects of life?

[NeSCio]

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@hiccup

At one point in our deep history all men were equal. Then they became the enforcers of the faiths. And in their enforcing it is quite easy to see how one sex would want to take dominance over annother, after all what better way to ensure power than to couple it with religion and birth right.

Same applies to slavery. It is fact that at one point all men were equal. To keep them down they brought in little laws and religious fatwas to keep them in their place.

You only have to endoctrinate one generation.

Whz is mz kez board messed up like this on GS alone?

it’s is strange to see then that this happened in numerous independent societies in a similar manner. If you see the number of societies the male-dominated ones outnumber the female-dominated ones. However, if you assume that in independent societies enforcing was done by random sexes, then the distribution must have been more equal. Why this asymmetry?

[NeSCio]

Re: Obsessed

@hiccup

Why should the right to freedom be limited to only certain aspects of life?

i was more hinting towards the right of equality…how would that apply to the physical field.

[hiccup]

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@NeSCio

it’s is strange to see then that this happened in numerous independent societies in a similar manner. If you see the number of societies the male-dominated ones outnumber the female-dominated ones. However, if you assume that in independent societies enforcing was done by random sexes, then the distribution must have been more equal. Why this asymmetry?

Were they really that independent? Where ever the Abrahamic faiths had their reach . Which is most of the known world…yes this is largely the trend. In societies such as Native Americans and Aboriginals, the Women have as large a role to play as the men and are seen as integral and ACTIVE members of the community. I do not agree with your observations

[NeSCio]

Re: Obsessed

@hiccup

Were they really that independent? Where ever the Abrahamic faiths had their reach . Which is most of the known world…yes this is largely the trend. In societies such as Native Americans and Aboriginals, the Women have as large a role to play as the men and are seen as integral and ACTIVE members of the community. I do not agree with your observations

you’ll agree that the Abrahamic faiths originated in a small place/society. The societies directly surrounding it, according to your theory must have been randomly distributed in male or female dominance. These societies must have had their own religion and structure. How come they vanished so quickly? Couldn’t they put up any resistence (if there was any forcing going on in the first place)? or perhaps those females saw more potential in the abrahamic set-up of society and assimilated willingly (just a thought)…

your reaction please

[hiccup]

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@NeSCio

i was more hinting towards the right of equality…how would that apply to the physical field.

If you are trying to point out that there can not be physical equality, then you are right. However it is important to note that bcasue physically we are different does not mean that we are are not born with equal rights.

It is true that I as a female can not arm wrestle you, much to your crying shame, into mercy. However I do not see how that is valid as an argument with which to beat down the argument that we should have the freedom to choice and enpowerment.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: Obsessed

Hiccup & NeSCio,

very good discussion, very original & w/out cheap generalizations. :)

[NeSCio]

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@hiccup

If you are trying to point out that there can not be physical equality, then you are right. However it is important to note that bcasue physically we are different does not mean that we are are not born with equal rights.

no, i am trying to point out a flaw in your definition. So please re-define and then we can continue the discussion. I’ll leave your other points pending, depending on whether they remain valid after the adjustment

[NeSCio]

Re: Obsessed

now since PSV Eindhoven and Olympique Lyon are heading towards a penalty shoot-out, I will have to leave here and enjoy the remainder of the match :D

if possible ill try to answer any inquiries tomorrow

[hiccup]

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@NeSCio

no, i am trying to point out a flaw in your definition. So please re-define and then we can continue the discussion. I’ll leave your other points pending, depending on whether they remain valid after the adjustment

I think you are mistaking mz use of the word of “equality” with same. We do not want to be the same as you. Obviously we realise that there is no such thing and it is a stupid desire. However that still isnt mutually exclusive with equality in rights. you as a male may be able to do certain manual tasks better than I and thus be more likely to be hired on a building site, however that shouldnt be any reason to bar me from applying for the job.

note y is now z, mz kezboard is messed up.