no problem with urdu!!!!!!
Respected brother Filhaal,
asslamu alaikum wa rehmatullahi wa barakaatohu!
First of all, i want to ask you if i made my point in the previous post…in reply to your msg “Miswak is not recommended by God or Muhammad saaw”<<<<<I hope i proved it inshAllah that it is recommended by RasulAllah.
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Secondly, it is my right upon you as your sister in Islam, that you reply back to my greeting of peace. I mean it is in the haqooq of Islamic brotherhood that one has reply back to the islamic greeting.
In both replies you have not said wa alaikum aslaam to me.
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waslaam
[This message has been edited by Uzee (edited July 15, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by filhaal:
**in different post many have qouted ayats from the quran containing the basic notion of :"Obey GOD and Obey the messenger".
many would say that obey GOD means to follow the orders of the quran and obey the messenger (saw) means to follow the hadith!!
This is a misinterpretation!!!
what are your views??????**
[/quote]
Islam is all about interpretations.
What you have stated is one interpretation and the majority has TRIED to make it the "only one".
It is a 'MISINTERPRETATION' if any practise/fiqh reflects Islam as one based on violence & hate!
dear uzee,
salaam,
my first post that i put up here yesterday i greeted everyone with SALAAM that is including you!!so i do not see any point in being offended, furthermore, it was an ongoing discussion, there is no point putting salaam on each and every post!!real greeting of peace comes from the heart, and i fully understand that you made your comments in the best of spirits and the same holds for my comments, so the greeting of peace was implicitly present in both of us, only you said it explicitly!!(but if you insist then: wasalaam!!)
secondly,
uzee wrote:
'Miswaak ke saath perrhi jaaney wali nemaaz miswaak ke begheir perrhi
janey wali nemaaz per satter(70) guna' zeyaada fezeelat rekhti hai'.
the basic point is about cleanliness!! you can achieve that with a miswak,but also in any other way (toothbrush!!) . then you will say that a toothbrush was not invented back in 600AD!!in those days that was a prevelent method to clean one's mouth, it is just a way, if people then had toothbrushes, they could have used it too!!!!
these kinds of things have (eq. how to perform waudhu, namaz etc.) obscured the real meaning of salat/namaz!!!
every sect/ group claim to have authentic hadith containing the true method of the Prophet (saw) how he performed the salat, but who is right???????
the real way to achieve succes in the eyes of GOD is once you have read namaz to ask him to make you a good human being and to DO GOOD DEEDS!!
(then it does not matter if you miswak or any other method to be clean)
waslaam!!!!!
Hafeez123:
It is a 'MISINTERPRETATION' if any practise/fiqh reflects Islam as one based on violence & hate!
filhaal:
what is your point!!!!!!
i totally agree that islam is not based on violence and hate!!
filhaal;
Muslims are not only commanded to obey the messenger, but also 'follow' him. Cleanliness is an 'order' so we obey, Using miswaak is an act, so we 'follow'. The Prophet(SAWW) could have easily said, 'Clean your teeth' instead of saying what Sister uzee quoted! I personally do both, brushing to avoid the smell, Miswak to emulate the Prophet(SAWW). Please observe the following:
And he (the Prophet (SAWW)) does not speak out of his own desire. It is not but a revelation revealed (to him). (53:3-4)
Give it a little thought dear fellow, would you? Dont pick for arguments if you're here to learn.
next thing your going to tell me is that you urinate standing or sitting because you have a hadith (presumably an authantic one)telling us to "follow" the way of the Prophet (saw)!!
interestingly, why are there two different opposing hadith on this issues (another thread is on this!!)
DEAR fellow again it is about keeping oneself clean and whether you stand or sit does not matter while urinating. same holds for miswak.
btw why then do you brush your teeth apart from using miswak!! if you were such a good follower of the Prophet (saw) miswak would be enough, but i think you are not sure, there is some doubt in your head that's why additionally use your tooth brush!!!
what an argument: you brush your teeth for the smell ,and you use miswak to emulate the Prophet(saw)!! (what a logic)
i thought that the Prophet (saw) used the miswak to clean his teeth.
or may-be you want to tell me that you want extra sawaab ( a mutiple of 70) by doing both things!!!!
and of course, i am here to learn, but dear guppie THIS ALSO HOLDS FOR YOU, you are also here to learn things, you see this is not one way traffic!!
I am not promising what I say will make sense to you, in a similar way your logic doesn't strike a cord with me.
The issue was miswak, lets not bring more into it. As you had stated that methods of cleanliness have changed over time, hence I do use a toothbrush, but since the Prophet(PBUH) has specifically recommended the use of a miswak, I follow that too. Why wouldn't that make sense to you?!
Also, no comments regarding that verse. Interesting.
dear fellow, your are testing my patience!!
but ok, something about the verse (53: 3-4):
tell me in this verse: IT is not but a revelation revealed!! to what does this IT refer??
(........to be continued)
you say that the Prophet (saw) has specifically recommended it, so why do you use toothbrush, why is miswak not enough??????
the best answer with which you could answer me is to say, that you use the MISWAK to clean your MOUTH like the Prophet (saw) did!! then i might be convinced, but you are saying is that you use the tootbrush for cleanliness and the miswak just for the sake of doing it!! (the Prophet (saw) would never recommend a deed just for the sake of doing it!!)
what you are doing is take apart the ORDER (cleanliness) and to FOLLOW (miswak in your own words)!!
but you would be better off if you said that you FOLLOW the ORDER by using the miswak to clean your mouth!! (then i might believe you)
your actions are not even consistent with your own belief!!!
Playing with words is a game two can play at, lets not go there shall we?
When I say that I follow it because the Prophet(PBUH) did, I say that because I believe it must have some benefits which maybe I dont know. The Prophet(PBUH) did not recommend something "just because", would you get that in your head? And that verse seems crystal clear to me, maybe you can tell me what else it could mean!
first of all, judging from your mail, it does not seem crystal clear (to you) what this verse means!!
btw you did not answer my question: to what does IT refer to??
ok , i agree that because the prophet (saw) advised it, the miswak could have additional benefits, but why then use the toothbrush!! you could only use the miswak and collect all the benefits you want, why the toothbrush!!
dear fellow, this just shows that you are not totally convinced by what the Prophet (saw) ordered (of which there is an account in the hadith).
with your BODY you use the miswak (pertaining to follow the SUNNAH) but with your MIND you are not totally convinced that is why you use the toothbrush!!people (like you) go through the MOTION but are not totally convinced!!If you were totally convinced then you would only use the miswak (and collect all the extra sawaab)
this just shows what is going wrong with 80% of the islamic world!! All the BODILY MOTION ordered by GOD and his messenger are being followed by the so-called believers, but most MINDS are fixed on other things!!!
You know whats hilarious? You have a pre-concieved notion you're judging me with. I use a toothpaste because it rids my teeth of the smell, got it?, and a miswak because it is prescribed by the Prophet(SAWW) and must have benefits, got this one too? Next time make less assumptions, please, since I wouldn't want to waste time on a petty issue such as this!
'IT' refers to whatever the Prophet(PBUH) said, as is clearly stated in the verse. Read it again.
this petty issue of yours is in my opinion a METAPHOR for the whole Islamic world today!!!
there is nothing pre-conceived about it, i am presenting my case quite clearly and objectively!!
so, according to you the miswak does not get rid of the smell, therfor you use the toothbrush!!(is this not one of the MANY benefits of the MISWAK?? was this not the function of the miswak before the toothbrush was invented!! how weird??!!)
so the Prophet (SAW) recommended something to his shahaba and other muslims to rub in your mouth which does not get RID oF THE SMELL, but has some very mysterious benefits!! (very logical) and still you have to use the toothbrush for the smell. so btw, what did the shahaba and other muslim do to get rid of the smell ( of course prior to invention of the toothbrush)
secondly, guess again:
the word IT refers to the QURAN!!!
You're blabbering dear kid.
Since there is something better to get rid of the smell(the toothbrush), I follow that! Since the Prophet(PBUH) prescribed the miswak, as is obvious in the ahadiths, I follow that. Talk about being slow?
And you're the one who decides what 'IT' refers to? Buddy boy, this is why I say that the Prophet(PBUH) taught us the books since we can draw any conclusions from any ayah that we want, hence we need the understanding of the verses by the Prophet(SAWW) and the pious companions(RA).
Dont take offence but a discussions such as this with someone who seemingly wants an argument for the sake of it isn't my cup of tea. One more off-the-topic reply from you or a repetition of what you've said, and I'll leave you and this topic to yourself.
dear HADITHI,
if i call you Hadithis, then you feel offended, after that i said i understood your offence and i stopped, but this does not give YOU the right to call others, BUDDY boy or dear blabbering kid. first you give the other person advice and then start doing the offence yourself. dear sire i thought you were a wise fellow, but alas!!
first of all, you say that i am arguing for the sake of...., but listen fellow who is the one presenting arguments (me) and secondly you do not present any arguments!!
only reason i can think of why you want to leave this topic is that you are with your back against the wall!!! the only point you want to hear is that i say : dear bhai sahib you are absolutely right, main aap ki har baat manta hun...........
but sorry!!
if you have something better for the smell which is the toothbrush(??where do you get that) what is the need for miswak. yess, yes, i know, some hadith claiming to attribute the Prophet (saw) to have said that there are many benefits!! the miswak is as good at cleaning the smell as the toothbrush, so in fact you could do with the miswak only. BUT THE MAJOR POINT IS THAT YOU IN YOUR HEART ARE NOT CONVINCED OF THE USE OF MISWAK, but do it as a some sort of paranoid movement in order just to emulate the prophet (SAW)
befor i forget:
From a linguistic point of view, we note that God says 'In Huwa ila wahe yuha' 53:4 ..... this
literally translates to (It is nothing but inspiration being inspired). the word 'Huwa' is very
indicative in this verse, it literally means 'it' .... but that is not all. The word 'it' in English does
not give a gender, 'it' could refer to a masculine or a feminine equally. However, in Arabic the
word 'Huwa' refers to the masculine (as opposed to the word Hiya which refers to the feminine).
The word 'Huwa' here refers to the Quran which is masculine.
sorry dude, this is not my own interpretation!!
You're a funny chap. You see phrases such as buddy boy were just phrases like you used 'dear fellow' and such. But hey, if it offends you, then it wont be repeated.
Now there are two issues and let me answer them one by one, so that you do not have the excuse of me avoiding the issue.
1- The issue of Miswak; I consider that many things have improved over the years, such is the cleaning of teeth. At that time there was no other way to clean the teeth, hence a miswaak was used. Today I use a toothbrush because it is much better at getting the job done! And a miswaak because I believe the Prophet(PBUH) didn't prescribe things without reason, i.e. if the Prophet(SAWW) says there is a benefit for doing something, we should do it. Hope thats clear.
2- You say Huwa means It in the masculine sense and I agree. But if we recall and go a few words back, it says: 'And he(SAWW) does not speak out of his own desire.' Hence 'IT' which is used in the following phrase refers to what the Prophet(PBUH) said. Hopefully this issue is clear as well.
Anyhow I'm off for the day, have to leave the office and wont have net access for the day. If you can answer in a point-by-point manner with a real, and conclusive argument, we'll follow this tommorow.
Asalaam ualikum W'r W'b.
Mahiwal: If I’m understanding correctly you’re saynig that all people in the time of the Prophet (despite using Miswak) had a bad smell coming out of their mouth because they didn’t have a toothbrush???
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-----------------> in this case, what was the use of the miswak if it didn’t help you get rid of the smell???
According to me: a miswak is nothing more than the toothbrush of those times!!!
Tired of repetition, but anything for a muslim brother:
[quote]
Today I use a toothbrush because it is much better at getting the job done!
[/quote]
Point established?
mahiwal:
Today I use a toothbrush because it is much better at getting the job done!
poor fellow:
every day you have to face a dilemma: either follow the sunnah and walk with bad breath or
use a toothbrush (like Today, see above) and put the sunnah aside while you clean your stinking mouth!!
btw, on a day if you want to do both, how do you do that?? first, miswak and then toothbrush or other way around!! (have any hadith on this one)
for your kind information, if you do the miswak in a proper way then you can also get rid of the bad smell!!!!
do you not understand, the Prophet (saw) did not prescribe the miswak because of any hidden advantages, but this was the best technological innovation the arabs had at that time for cleaning one's mouth!!
in a hurry today, you will get my answer on the second point, just wait!!!!
dear all, dear Mahiwal,
salaam,
how are you all today??
reading over the post of yesterday, it got bit out of hand!!
first of all, Mahiwal, you are allowed to make names as you wish, and i also do NOT MIND your making names of me!!
after all: Shakespeare once said: "what's in a name!!"
the point i found irritating is that you advise others on matter which yourself do not follow!!
secondly, the verse
mahiwal:
2- You say Huwa means It in the masculine sense and I agree. But if we recall and go a
few words back, it says: 'And he(SAWW) does not speak out of his own desire.' Hence
'IT' which is used in the following phrase refers to what the Prophet(PBUH) said. Hopefully
this issue is clear as well.
filhaal:
again, you are drawing the wrong conclusion.
you mean to say that IT refers to "HE speaks" (that's why you made it BOLD, i assume). the word (huwa) is masculine and REFERRING TO A THING not a person, hence translating it with IT!! and the thing which is being revealed is the QURAN! (there are also other indication in the QURAN that the only revelation the Prophet (saw)received was the Quran.
further support comes from the following ayat:
"Say (Muhammad): What thing is 'Akbar Shahada' (greatest testimony)? Say: God is
a Witness between me and you; this QURAN has been revealed to me by inspiration
that with it I may warn you and all whom it reaches (BALAGHA)" 6:19
This ayat is also speaking only of ONE revelation hence referring specifically to the QURAN!!