in different post many have qouted ayats from the quran containing the basic notion of :“Obey GOD and Obey the messenger”.
many would say that obey GOD means to follow the orders of the quran and obey the messenger (saw) means to follow the hadith!!
This is a misinterpretation!!!
what are your views???
interesting to see that noone has yet replied to this thread.
but I'm posting my view here. it's a quote of somehitng which I posted in another thread:
[quote]
what does "obey/follow the prophet" mean!
If I say to you: "obey your father", does it mean that you too should drink tea at 7 o'clock because your father likes drinking tea at 7 o'clock, or does "obey your father" mean that you follow him in his morals/decency/humbleness etc?????
In other words, does "follow the prophet" mean that we do exactly everything what he did, or does it mean that we follow him in his morals/decency/humbleness/patience etc (=all of which can be found in the Quran).
[/quote]
Pray tell, if it doesn't mean following the Hadiths, then what else does it mean? I know what your answer will be, but lets hear it from you.
[quote]
or does it mean that we follow him in his morals/decency/humbleness/patience etc (=all of which can be found in the Quran)
[/quote]
Have you read the Quran completely even once? Because someone's morals/decency/humbleness/patience can only be understood by studying their life, and the Quran is certainly not a life history of the Prophet(PBUH).
[quote]
Originally posted by Mahiwal:
** Have you read the Quran completely even once? Because someone's morals/decency/humbleness/patience can only be understood by studying their life, and the Quran is certainly not a life history of the Prophet(PBUH).**
[/quote]
of course not! but the essence of the Quran is doing good deeds (also meaning doing things with sincerity/decency etc).
Now, it won't be too difficult to imagine that the messenger who brought this message would follow his own message, would it?
[This message has been edited by NeSCio (edited July 15, 2002).]
Nescio, you can keep making excuses, or you can pick up a book of ahadiths, and read about the Prophet(PBUH). It is clearly stated that you must follow the Prophet(PBUH), you can keep making excuses, or give it a try.
Oh, and btw- be sure to read books which explain ahadiths in their context, I can get you names if you wish. Many ahadiths end up looking wrong because we do not know the history behind them. Sincere advice: give it a try. None of us are stupid to believe so strongly in it. We've been through the phase.
You're a muslim brother and I'm concerned but I dont bother arguing when the other doesn't want to learn, rather invents terms such as "Hadithis". decision is yours- I'm out.
[This message has been edited by Mahiwal (edited July 15, 2002).]
^first of all, I've never said that I reject all Hadith. I've always sai, and again I'll say now that if the essence of a Hadith is the same as what is stated in the Quran, I'll accept that Hadith and think of it as a good piece of history-writing!
(however, most people (in favour of Hadith) tend to think of Hadith as devine revelations in addition to the quran)
I've opened another thread which contains excerpt from the book, The Authority of Sunnah. You're most welcome to visit! The thread is titled- Sunnah, Ahadiths- their importance and authenticity.
According to Hazrat Ayesha bint Abu Bakar and Hazrat Fatima Az- Zahra bint Rasurullah, Prophet (pbuh) is the walking Quran. Obedience to prophet (saw) means obedience to Allah swt. Disobedience to the holy prophet means disobedience to Allah swt.
^according to the same Hadith one can conclude that obedience to the quran is obedience to the Prophet
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[This message has been edited by NeSCio (edited July 15, 2002).]
salaam,
my basic question was whether these two components refer to two different things (GOD to QUran and Messenger to hadith):
Why did not God only say to "Obey God" but also add " obey the messenger" to it!! can normal mortals (like us) hear, see or talk to God, or does God talk to normal people. the answer is no!! the only way we can "obey GOD" is through HIS MESSENGER to whom GOD gives his orders (wahy)!!
furthermore, adding the second clause (that we should "obey the messenger") means that we should follow the message that he, the prophet (saw), delivers which is the QURAN!!God does not say "obey GOD and Obey Mohammad" or "obey Mosa" ,or "obey Isa", but instead GOD is refering to "obey the messenger", hence putting emphasis on the message, which is the quran!!!!
moreover, the Prophet (saw) himself has been ordered to follow the QURAN!!
there are in the quran no references to extra-quranic texts that were sent to the prophet (saw) as a guide for people!! As i have said in other posts the QURAN itself is COMPLETE, PERFECT and FULLY-DETAILED for our salvation!!
my conclusion is that obey GOD and Obey the messenger refers to the same point which is the QURAN
the hadith should be delt with as a historical document not some extra-quranic revelation!!
people think that if you say that Quran is enough, that what i mean is not to follow or disobedience of the prophet!! no, not at all, following the quran IS in fact following the prophet and GOD!!
Allah Ta'ala clearly says in The Holy Quran:
**
Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have an excellent example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much. (Al-Ahzaab: 21)
**
Verily, those who give Bai'â (pledge) to you (O Muhammad SAW) they are giving Bai'â (pledge) to Allâh. The Hand of Allâh is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge, breaks only to his own harm, and whosoever fulfills what he has covenanted with Allâh, He will bestow on him a great reward. (48:10)
so what is your point??????
[quote]
Originally posted by Uzee:
*Allah Ta'ala clearly says in The Holy Quran:
*
Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have an excellent example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much. (Al-Ahzaab: 21)
**
Verily, those who give Bai'â (pledge) to you (O Muhammad SAW) they are giving Bai'â (pledge) to Allâh. The Hand of Allâh is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge, breaks only to his own harm, and whosoever fulfills what he has covenanted with Allâh, He will bestow on him a great reward. (48:10)
**
[/quote]
it is fine you quoting these verses, but what do u wanna say with it????
what does 'follow the example' mean?????? follow exactly every single thing he did or follow him in his principles????
asslamu alaikum wa rehmatullahi wa barakaatohu!
well brother, its weird how you’re saying to “follow exactly everything he did”<<<this sounds a bit complicated..because we can all very well understand that we cannot live our life EXATLY as he did..for example …for the muslims living in Makkah…i’m sure not any one of them goes to Cave of Hira to meditate /pray everyday…for long hours even days…(sorry if the example is little cheap)
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So Of Course we cannot live our lives exactly same as His but we follow his teachings…from his sunnah…for example using a miswaak …RasulAlah (pbuh) recommended its use and there are many healthy benefits to using it…so we should use a miswak because it is a sunnah of RasulAllah … and following RasulAllah also brings you loads of good deeds.
keep in mind that Muhammad pbuh was a Prophet of Allah..and everything he did was by the guidance of Allah..and Allah also says that Muhammad is an excellent example for us to follow…which means follow his teachings(hadith/sunnah) …since he was the living Quran..we should read the Quran and follow it.
Allah Ta’ala says in The Holy Quran:
'Verily, We have given you (O Muhammad SAW) a manifest victory.
That Allâh may forgive you your sins of the past and the future], and complete His Favour on you, and guide you on the Straight Path; '{48:1-2)
We can aslo understand that everythung Muhammad pbuh did was from the direct guidance of Allah Ta’ala. His teaching (ahadith) do Not Contradict to Allah’s Words(Quran).
[This message has been edited by Uzee (edited July 15, 2002).]
We can aslo understand that everythung Muhammad pbuh did was from the direct guidance of Allah Ta'ala. His teachings (ahadith) do Not Contradict to Allah's Words(Quran).<<<<<<<<<<<<<
two things which I would like to comment on this:
1. His teachings aren't called Hadith. They are called Sunnah. Hadith is merely the reporting of these Hadith by humans.
Ali Akbar, in his book "God and Man", says: "Great minds and teachers like Buddha and Christ could not present their lives as models for mankind to follow. One left the family while the other had none. One severed his connections with the worldly affairs altogether and the other had never entered into them. Their teachings are lofty but can be followed only by those who live an ascetic life like them. The human progress in acquiring knowledge of the Creator and the Universe and mastering elements and scientific research could never be possible if all people lived ascetic lives, and the world would come to an end in one generation as far as human beings are concerned if all practised celibacy. God Who is the Creator of mankind could not depute persons to advocate principles contrary to the laws laid down by Him for the procreation of His creatures.
"But the great model Muhammad presents all phases of life to follow. As an orphan, as a shepherd, as a son, as a nephew, as father, as grandfather, as husband, as a citizen, as a neighbour, as a humanitarian and lover to children and orphans, as supporter and free worker for poor widows and needy persons, as tolerant teacher never offending susceptibilities or beliefs of others, as conqueror, as forgiver of those who persecuted him after they came under his power by his example of forgiving the people of Mecca who had ruthlessly persecuted him, as master of those who came to him as slaves by freeing them at once, as a ruler and a teacher of good treatment which should be meted to those who differ from you in religion when they come under your protection by his own example, as the first giver in the world to women a right of full possession of property and inheritance from parents, sons, brothers and sisters and other relations; and in many other respects a model to follow."
[quote]
Originally posted by NeSCio:
yes, thats true...many ahadith are corrupt ..and that is why i said that Muhammad's teachings cannot contradict the Words of Allah in the Quran.
If one knows the Quran...than he/she inshAllah will have no problem in finding out which hadeeth is bidah' or corrupt.
May Allah Ta'ala keep us firm on Sirat-al-Mustaqeem and may He guide us all to the Truth and may He The Protector, protect us from all shaytaan's evils ways and all misguidance. ameen
Allah Ta'ala, The Wise, says:
** And hold fast, all together, by the rope which God (stretches out for
you),** and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's
favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by
His Grace, ye b
ecame brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you
from it. Thus doth God make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided. {3:103}
dear uzee,
all your examples true and i totally agree with them, but i am not saying that we should not follow the prophet (saw)!! of course we should follow and obey the prophet, this in my opinion can be done in the best way by following the quran!!!!!
you gave the example of the miswak. but the miswak itself is not recommended by GOD or his messenger, but it is the cleanliness (but this you can reach by using a toothbrush!!). Furthermore, the message of ALLAH according to which the prophet behaved was to clean one's mouth from idle talk , back biting and those kinds of things!!!!
asslamu alaikum wa rehmatullah
As i wrote in my previous post that RasulAllah lived his life under the direct guidance from Allah ..and Allah tells us this in the Quran in the second verse of Surah Fath(48).
Everything that Muhammad pbuh did in his life was from the Guidance of Allah. Using the miswaak is recommended by rasulAllah in many ahadith. As i said before …one who knows the Quran will have no trouble by the Will of Allah, as to which hadith is corrupt or not. Cleanliness in islam is very important. Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Quran:
“Truly, Allâh loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves.” {2:222}
Brushing of teeth ( once in a day ) is very recent development of near past. Muslims are known to use Miswak, the herbal brush for the past 1400 years, five times a day prior to each ablution, as recommended by RasulAllah in many ahadeeth.
It is a sunnah to use the miswaak…there are many healthy and spiritual benefits to using a miswaak…BUT it is only a sunnah not a fardh…but by using it one earns much thawaab. It is even proven that it works better than todays modern tooth brush.
Aisha (ra) rewaait kerti hain k RasulAllah ney fermaayaa: ‘Miswaak mu’n ki paaki ka zeriya hai aur Perwerdigaar ki khushnudi ka’. (sunan nasai)
Aisha (ra) fermaati hain ke Muhammad saaw ney fermaayaa: ‘Miswaak ke saath perrhi jaaney wali nemaaz miswaak ke begheir perrhi janey wali nemaaz per satter(70) guna’ zeyaada fezeelat rekhti hai’.
<<<the above ahadeeth are from a book i have at home called “Aasaan Naikiaan” . Sorry the ahadith are in urdu.
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waslaam
[This message has been edited by Uzee (edited July 15, 2002).]