O sane and nice people of Pakistan. When will sanity prevail.
As if most have not seen history of dealing with extremists.
Misguided ones who are blowing up themselves and hijacking Islam and giving you and me a bad name, how do we deal with them? If they are bombed, we alienate a wide portion of our country’s population. Violenc ebegets violence. High handedness only results in more loss of life.
Yes lal masjid people although sincere, were misguided. They should not have taken up arms in the mosque. They should have followed the Sunnah of the Prophet:saw: Kuffu aaidiakum (tie your hands). They should have folowed the manhaj e inqilab e nabavi :saw: . If someone understands how he :saw: brought revolution they would understand that we are in the dawah stage of the revolution. (May Allah forgive me if i am wrong)
Many attempts have been across the Muslim world history to bring shariah, but failed. The reasons are clear. They did not follow the Prophet’s :saw: way.
(Pre-requisite are sidq and amanah (truthfulness and honesty). Moral standing would not remain if the building of madrasah is on illegal land.)
Most important thing. Lal Masjid was bombed and a massacre took place. Did it serve the purpose? I don’t think so. Mush has produced many more extremists. The result is in front of us.
Who suffers? all of us! Pakistan! and our future generations.
Mush will be gone sooner or later, once his masters start disliking him. The biggest dent has been in the respect of our army and our soldiers who have been misused all due to the one man show.
MISGUIDED? people who blow themselves up amongst civilians/non combatants are HEINOUS CRIMINALS.
The argument that Mush has produced many more extremists is a hypothetical. Lets suppose Mush didnt act against Lal Masjid and agreed to their demands or let them continue enforcing what they feel should be the law. Could one then make the argument that people like Lal Masjid would have been encouraged, and done the same thing, creating a situation where the most violent and most well armed are capable of getting their agenda enforced? Wouldnt that have produced many more extremists, many more kidnappers, many more destroyers of shops, killers of rangers, many more stoners of govt high schools, and many more burners of ministries?
Stop MINIMISING what they were doing by couching it in words like "misguided" and "violence begets violence". Was the PPP also violent against these "misguided" people? Why was their rally bombed and women killed?
They sure are sincere to their cause but so was Abu Lahab.
MISGUIDED? people who blow themselves up amongst civilians/non combatants are HEINOUS CRIMINALS.
The argument that Mush has produced many more extremists is a hypothetical. Lets suppose Mush didnt act against Lal Masjid. Could one then make the argument that people like Lal Masjid would have been encouraged, and done the same thing, creating a situation where the most violent and most well armed are capable of getting their agenda enforced?
Stop MINIMISING what they were doing by couching it in words like "misguided" and "violence begets violence". Was the PPP also violent against these "misguided" people? Why was their rally bombed and women killed?
They sure are sincere to their cause but so was Abu Lahab.
Its all about guidance and misgidance.
A good person is guided, while the opposite is misguided. Simple.
We are all human beings and nobody is perfect.
Even a very evil person has moments when he/she may realize .
If its not about guidance and misguidance, then why the concept of forgiveness from Allah?
Do you think a child is born sinful? No way. Thats not what Muslims believe.
People's cirumstances and situations also determine behavior.
A good person is guided, while the opposite is misguided. Simple.
We are all human beings and nobody is perfect.
Even a very evil person has moments when he/she may realize .
If its not about guidance and misguidance, then why the concept of forgiveness from Allah?
Do you think a child is born sinful? No way. Thats not what Muslims believe.
People's cirumstances and situations also determine behavior.
Why dont you label Musharraf as "misguided" or his supporters as "misguided"? Why are they out of the fold of Islam, and these people who killl innocent women and children WITHOUT WARNING are merely misguided? Why are babies being sinful even relevant in this discussion?
Admit it. You couch your language based on your views. You hate Musharraf so you label him and his supporters in one language and you sympathise with these killers and murderers to some extent so they're just misguided for you.
You may have a worldview and I have mine but as long as you are consistent and you are intellectually honest we can discuss and resolve our issues. The moment you start using hyperbole for one side and criminally minimize the murder of the other, we cannot talk fruitfully.
Why dont you label Musharraf as "misguided" or his supporters as "misguided"? Why are they out of the fold of Islam, and these people who killl innocent women and children WITHOUT WARNING are merely misguided? Why are babies being sinful even relevant in this discussion?
Admit it. You couch your language based on your views. You hate Musharraf so you label him and his supporters in one language and you sympathise with these killers and murderers to some extent so they're just misguided for you.
You may have a worldview and I have mine but as long as you are consistent and you are intellectually honest we can discuss and resolve our issues. The moment you start using hyperbole for one side and criminally minimize the murder of the other, we cannot talk fruitfully.
Yes Mush is misguided. Whats so hard about that?
Musharaf , yes i hate him even more, because he wants all authority and power. He is in a much bigger position and ofcourse everyone looks to the president. He has no comparison with madrassah people. Mush unfortunately is the leader, madrassah people are his nation. Two are not equal.
Are Lal Masjid supporters not ashamed that the "lion" maulvi's dress up as women?
referance in other thread says that our president advised him to cover-up so he wont be shot dead - ofcourse to have a talk.
Musharaf , yes i hate him even more, because he wants all authority and power. He is in a much bigger position and ofcourse everyone looks to the president. He has no comparison with madrassah people. Mush unfortunately is the leader, madrassah people are his nation. Two are not equal.
You dont refer to Mush as misguided. You refer to him as a traitor, his supporters as out of the fold of Islam. Why dont you use the same language for the suicide bombers of civilians, and their supporters? Why the blame minimization, misguided but sincere? They are murderers
Musharraf or anyone else recognized by our civil society, courts, assemblies as president does have the authority and power, MUCH more than the Lal masjid people who set up their own authority and power. The only reason I supported Musharraf against the lal masjid and others too was that they do not want an alternative, arms based system of governance where whoever accumulates the most arms inside a fortified base gets to dictact his own power and laws.
You dont refer to Mush as misguided. You refer to him as a traitor, his supporters as out of the fold of Islam. Why dont you use the same language for the suicide bombers of civilians, and their supporters? Why the blame minimization, misguided but sincere? They are murderers
Musharraf or anyone else recognized by our civil society, courts, assemblies as president does have the authority and power, MUCH more than the Lal masjid people who set up their own authority and power. The only reason I supported Musharraf against the lal masjid and others too was that they do not want an alternative, arms based system of governance where whoever accumulates the most arms inside a fortified base gets to dictact his own power and laws.
Yes you are exactly right. I value the brave students of jamia hafsa, they gave up their lives for shariah. Though their was not right but what they said, i salute them for that. i am not hiding anything, i am outraged at their treatment by the butcher mush. They could have been jailed, caught and corrected.
As i said, lal masjid should not have taken law into their hands. They should not have taken up arms. However, their demands are the voice of every true Pakistani - who know what Pakistan was created for. Yes for tehm i would say tehy were misguided, since their cause was very noble - and great indeed!!!
Yes mush is a traitor. He destroyed afghanistan - he was its cause. We lost a friendly neigbor that was of no threat to anyone. Now something that won't be able to digest , due to your differentw ay of thinking. Mush has gone against Pakistan's ideological foundations. In the name of moderation and enlightenment has has brought behayai into the country. He is bent upon supporting 'moderates'. He has started a useless debate of moderates vs extremists. He literally has divided Pakistan.
He went against the constitution and is a dictator. That is treason! He is worst of the worst!
does not mean you let crminals roam free and when they are being pursued you claim they are misguided. sure they are misguided but that is no reasont o let them just go berserk.
We need good examples , role models for the nation. Unfortunately, our system does not allow them in top positions.
it depends on where you look. why not look at people like marhoom hakim saeed, or Abdul sattar edhi? role models are there, but these people are choosing the wrong role models..they are choosing role models that are being stuffed in their heads by ppl in groups, madrissas, tribes they belong to.
SO Pir jee, people like raza pehlvi and the way they talk would only make these misguided more misguided and firm in their wrong stance.
I dont think anyone who is willing to blow himself and innocent ppl up can be any firmer in his wrong stance. they need to be shown a serious will that they need to rethink what they are doing and stop.
what do you want pplk to do, go and hug militants and tell them its all going to be okay?
does not mean you let crminals roam free and when they are being pursued you claim they are misguided. sure they are misguided but that is no reasont o let them just go berserk.
it depends on where you look. why not look at people like marhoom hakim saeed, or Abdul sattar edhi? role models are there, but these people are choosing the wrong role models..they are choosing role models that are being stuffed in their heads by ppl in groups, madrissas, tribes they belong to.
I dont think anyone who is willing to blow himself and innocent ppl up can be any firmer in his wrong stance. they need to be shown a serious will that they need to rethink what they are doing and stop.
what do you want pplk to do, go and hug militants and tell them its all going to be okay?
a few years back, we never heard the word 'suicide bombers' in Pakistan. Who made them like that. yes they need to be shown the gun, but also solve the real problems.. Otherwise its a never ending problem.
most importantly, dealing with problems needs the whole country's backing, or atleast of the majority. Nobody trusts mush anymore.. especially after his lies about lal masjid and stuff..
Actions must be constitutional and according to law, not by dictatotors. When they are done by force in the way they are being done, then leaders lose vision + support of the nation as is evident. Thats not too hard to understand.
a few years back, we never heard the word 'suicide bombers' in Pakistan. Who made them like that.
yeah who is filling their heads with garbage?
and while you may not recall any suicide attacks surely youa re able to recall others acts of violence...gunnign down ppl of other sects, mostly shia, many sunni. burning shops, vehicles, going on rampages.
the people they listen to not only stayed silence but in many cases it was their protests during which the properties were damaged.
.. Actions must be constitutional and according to law, not by dictatotors.
really, how do you explain the actions taken against MQM in 1990's. which made headlines in human rights watch groups due to the harrassment of avg citizens, extra judicial killings, kidnapping for ransoms by paramilitary forces etc etc.
