NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

[StormRaiser]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

^^

Nobody is taking away the freedom of privacy or freedom of expression. Nobody who is not into anything illegal has to fear anything. It is very easy to sit in the west and talk about all these liberties where as in some countries these are unheard of. Take a deep breath get out of the victim mentality and that would help you to see things in a clearer perspective. The topic has been beaten to death. I think it is better that we agree to disagree and move on...

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

^^

Nobody is taking away the freedom of privacy or freedom of expression. Nobody who is not into anything illegal has to fear anything. It is very easy to sit in the west and talk about all these liberties where as in some countries these are unheard of. Take a deep breath get out of the victim mentality and that would help you to see things in a clearer perspective. The topic has been beaten to death. I think it is better that we agree to disagree and move on...

Freedom of privavcy is to not have your emails and phone conversations recorded, not to go to mosque and to have the registration number of your car recorded. Not to have your computer and the information it contains monitored. Not having the websites you visit and what you write monitored.

Freedom of expression is to be free to express yourself without being profiled and without being blacklisted and without being monitored.

I sit in the west and talk about liberties because unlike you I have an appreciation of much we struggled to achieve these rights. I have a greater appreciation of history. I also know what history will say 20, 30 and 50 years from now. I owe it to my children to leave behind a better society for them than to leave a worse one, like others tried to do before me.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

I do agree that is entrapment has its limits. Many are confused individuals who go along with these schemes and on their own they are no threat.

Its like leaving an locked Ferrari in a ghetto and then arresting someone who will try to steal it.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@arshad5

Approximately 25,000 people die every year in the U.S due to alcohol induced crashes, so can some bright spark tell me how we can arrest these drivers before they actually crash and kill themselves and others?

You can't. But you can induce measures which lesses it.

Such as holding Pub owners responsible for allowing people who are drunk to drive their cars.

And yet again you are indulging in a false equivalency.

Alcohol didn't kill 3,000 Americans and destroy two massive buildings on 9/11. It was Islamic Terrorists who did that.

What do else do you expect? Life to be the same as it was before 9/11?

Deal with it and blame Islamic Terrorists for the current situation.

I personally have nothing to hide so I don't mind being monitored if they chose to do so.

Better be safe than sorry.

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@mercenary2k

You can't. But you can induce measures which lesses it.

Such as holding Pub owners responsible for allowing people who are drunk to drive their cars.

And yet again you are indulging in a false equivalency.

Alcohol didn't kill 3,000 Americans and destroy two massive buildings on 9/11. It was Islamic Terrorists who did that.

What do else do you expect? Life to be the same as it was before 9/11?

Deal with it and blame Islamic Terrorists for the current situation.

I personally have nothing to hide so I don't mind being monitored if they chose to do so.

Better be safe than sorry.

I was wondering when you would appear, I was beginning to think that you may have retired.

Are you telling me that it is not important how many people are killed, but what is important is who they are killed by?

3,000 were killed in NY ( who was behind it we don't really know) but mainly by Saudis. Yet S.A is still a major strategic ally of the US. Since that time 275,000 have died in crashes caused by drunk drivers. Also millions have been killed by the US.

So all human life is not equal. If you are killed by a muslim your life is worth hundred times more. But if you are killed by a non muslim, be it an American or a Jewish or even a Hindu person then your life is worthless.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

I was wondering when you would appear, I was beginning to think that you may have retired.

Are you telling me that it is not important how many people are killed, but what is important is who they are killed by?

3,000 were killed in NY ( who was behind it we don't really know) but mainly by Saudis. Yet S.A is still a major strategic ally of the US. Since that time 275,000 have died in crashes caused by drunk drivers. Also millions have been killed by the US.

So all human life is not equal. If you are killed by a muslim your life is worth hundred times more. But if you are killed by a non muslim, be it an American or a Jewish or even a Hindu person then your life is worthless.

I haven't retired. I usually pick the most ridiculous posts to comment back on.

Yes I am telling you that. If a person is murdered, it would have a far deeper ramification than say he/she died from Cancer or something. So get over this false equivalency that you are trying to create.

3,000 were killed in USA. Who was behind was Al Qaeda Terrorists who are based out of Tribal Areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Saudis being behind 9/11 does not mean it will effect US-Saudi relations in any deeper way. Saudi Arabia has effectively combated terrorism on its soil and wiped out Al Qaeda.

Pakistan has not. It still views the Taliban as this strategic asset to be used in future proxy wars with India.

And that is why Pakistan has lagged so far behind in very development metric vs India.

As for NYPD, they have a job to do to protect the city from people like Faisal Shehzad, the Taliban sympathizer who wanted to detonate a bomb in Times Square.

But please carry on. Your posts give me a good laugh.

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

I haven't retired. I usually pick the most ridiculous posts to comment back on.

Yes I am telling you that. If a person is murdered, it would have a far deeper ramification than say he/she died from Cancer or something. So get over this false equivalency that you are trying to create.

3,000 were killed in USA. Who was behind was Al Qaeda Terrorists who are based out of Tribal Areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Saudis being behind 9/11 does not mean it will effect US-Saudi relations in any deeper way. Saudi Arabia has effectively combated terrorism on its soil and wiped out Al Qaeda.

Pakistan has not. It still views the Taliban as this strategic asset to be used in future proxy wars with India.

And that is why Pakistan has lagged so far behind in very development metric vs India.

As for NYPD, they have a job to do to protect the city from people like Faisal Shehzad, the Taliban sympathizer who wanted to detonate a bomb in Times Square.

But please carry on. Your posts give me a good laugh.

To avenge the 3,000 how many innocents have been killed elsewhere by the US? You have moral authority when you go out to avenge the deaths by causing a lot more deaths of innocents.

Only a paid propagandist would say that 3,000 people are worth more than hundreds and thousands and millions killed elsewhere by US and its citizens.

The 3,000 people allowed Bush to lie and launch an illegal war in Iraq. Before that sanctions against non existent weapons of mass destruction killed thousands of children in Iraq as they could not even get medecine.

The US is the only country that has used nuclear weapons in anger against innocent men, women and children, killing millions.

The US is also the country that used Napalm bombs against innocent civilians in Vietnam.

Ariel Sharon killed 3,000 Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila. Israel is the only country where terrorists make it to the top post in the country. US weapons are used by Israel to kill innocent people.

Bush and Sharon are both war criminals.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

To avenge the 3,000 how many innocents have been killed elsewhere by the US? You have moral authority when you go out to avenge the deaths by causing a lot more deaths of innocents.

Only a paid propagandist would say that 3,000 people are worth more than hundreds and thousands and millions killed elsewhere by US and its citizens.

The 3,000 people allowed Bush to lie and launch an illegal war in Iraq. Before that sanctions against non existent weapons of mass destruction killed thousands of children in Iraq as they could not even get medecine.

The US is the only country that has used nuclear weapons in anger against innocent men, women and children, killing millions.

The US is also the country that used Napalm bombs against innocent civilians in Vietnam.

Ariel Sharon killed 3,000 Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila. Israel is the only country where terrorists make it to the top post in the country. US weapons are used by Israel to kill innocent people.

Bush and Sharon are both war criminals.

So how should the US have reacted to 9/11? Do nothing?

US is the only country that used nuclear weapons because it was the only country that had nuclear weapons. Learn some history Kid. An invasion of Japan in 1946 would have cost 11 million deaths, nuclear weapons dropped on Japan ended world war II or it would have been pro-longed till 1948.

As for Napalm, Soviets used in afghanistan, Turkey used against the Kurds, Iraq used it against the Kurds, lol...u dont know anything.

Ariel Sharon's armies provided light to Christian ARAB gunmen who went into Sabra and Shatilla and killed 2,000 people because just the day before Palestinians had assassinated the Chrisian Leader in Lebanon.

And what does this have to do with NYPD.

Are you really that desperate that you are throwing everything against the wall hoping something would stick.

That is the hallmark of a person with no argument.

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@mercenary2k

So how should the US have reacted to 9/11? Do nothing?

US is the only country that used nuclear weapons because it was the only country that had nuclear weapons. Learn some history Kid. An invasion of Japan in 1946 would have cost 11 million deaths, nuclear weapons dropped on Japan ended world war II or it would have been pro-longed till 1948.

As for Napalm, Soviets used in afghanistan, Turkey used against the Kurds, Iraq used it against the Kurds, lol...u dont know anything.

Ariel Sharon's armies provided light to Christian ARAB gunmen who went into Sabra and Shatilla and killed 2,000 people because just the day before Palestinians had assassinated the Chrisian Leader in Lebanon.

And what does this have to do with NYPD.

Are you really that desperate that you are throwing everything against the wall hoping something would stick.

That is the hallmark of a person with no argument.

You have justification for the deaths of muslim and excuses for the murders by Jews.

Every time a Palestinian murders an Israeli he is a terrorist and everytime that an Israeli murders a Palestinian he is fighting terrorists or a crazy settler but he is never a terrorist. Only muslims have a monopoly on terrorism.

Israel's own Kahan commission of inquiry held Sharon "personally responsible" for the killings. Sharon sent his Phalangist allies into the camps to massacre innocent men, women and children. Mass graves were dug and Palestinians were killed and buried in them. Men were taken from houses under the pretext of having their ID cards stamped by the Israelis but were never to be seen again.

It was Sharon that told the Phalange that Palestinian "terrorists" had murdered Bashir Gemayel, but no Palestinians were involved.

Israel indulged in ethnic cleansing of three quarters of a million Palestinians in 1948.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@arshad5

You have justification for the deaths of muslim and excuses for the murders by Jews.

Every time a Palestinian murders an Israeli he is a terrorist and everytime that an Israeli murders a Palestinian he is fighting terrorists or a crazy settler but he is never a terrorist. Only muslims have a monopoly on terrorism.

Israel's own Kahan commission of inquiry held Sharon "personally responsible" for the killings. Sharon sent his Phalangist allies into the camps to massacre innocent men, women and children. Mass graves were dug and Palestinians were killed and buried in them. Men were taken from houses under the pretext of having their ID cards stamped by the Israelis but were never to be seen again.

It was Sharon that told the Phalange that Palestinian "terrorists" had murdered Bashir Gemayel, but no Palestinians were involved.

Israel indulged in ethnic cleansing of three quarters of a million Palestinians in 1948.

In the case of Sabra and Shatila, Israelis did not murder the Palestinians but fellow Arabs who were allies of Sharon.

I hold Sharon responsible as well. He should have known how undisciplined these Christian Militias were and should have never allowed them to enter the Camps.

But that is another debate.

You just brought up this topic to divert from your losing argument.

Should I bring up Bangladesh and the war crimes that Pakistani Army committed there in 1971 or how about Baluchistan and how Pakistan has discriminated against them since 1948?

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@mercenary2k

In the case of Sabra and Shatila, Israelis did not murder the Palestinians but fellow Arabs who were allies of Sharon.

I hold Sharon responsible as well. He should have known how undisciplined these Christian Militias were and should have never allowed them to enter the Camps.

But that is another debate.

You just brought up this topic to divert from your losing argument.

Should I bring up Bangladesh and the war crimes that Pakistani Army committed there in 1971 or how about Baluchistan and how Pakistan has discriminated against them since 1948?

No Israelis did not kill Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila camps but sent their allies in to do the killing. Israels own commission found Sharon then Defence Minister personally responsible for the massacre, who then goes on to become Prime Minister. Israel is the only country that had not one, but at least 2 Prime Ministers who were terrorists.

Going back to NYPD they know what they did was wrong so does the agent who resigned. Now lets hear your justification?

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@arshad5

No Israelis did not kill Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila camps but sent their allies in to do the killing. Israels own commission found Sharon then Defence Minister personally responsible for the massacre, who then goes on to become Prime Minister. Israel is the only country that had not one, but at least 2 Prime Ministers who were terrorists.

Going back to NYPD they know what they did was wrong so does the agent who resigned. Now lets hear your justification?

You first said Jews killed 3,000 Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila and now you have changed your tune that No Israelis Killed Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila. :D

I personally also hold Sharon responsible for Sabra and Shatila. He was the senior ground commander and should have known how unreliable these Christian Militias are.

And what about Pakistan and its various war crimes in Balochistan and Bangladesh. Are they also considered terrorists? Lets hear your justification. :D

As for NYPD, they did what they thought was right. I don't totally agree with entrapment but when bad choices, you chose the lesser of two evils.

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@mercenary2k

You first said Jews killed 3,000 Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila and now you have changed your tune that No Israelis Killed Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila. :D

I personally also hold Sharon responsible for Sabra and Shatila. He was the senior ground commander and should have known how unreliable these Christian Militias are.

And what about Pakistan and its various war crimes in Balochistan and Bangladesh. Are they also considered terrorists? Lets hear your justification. :D

As for NYPD, they did what they thought was right. I don't totally agree with entrapment but when bad choices, you chose the lesser of two evils.

I think that unless I am mistaken if you read again you will notice that I said Ariel Sharon killed 3,000
Palestininians BTW Ariel Sharon is a jew. If you are a Defence Minister and you have a militia that is armed and you allow if to enter the refugee camps and before that tell them a lie that Palestinians murder their leader and have soldiers stand and watch and do not stop then you are responsible for those deaths as rightly the Kahn Commission noted.

How can it be right for NYPD to try to entrap law abiding citizens and infringe their rights? NYPD and other intelligence agencies have plenty of powers and resources and they don't need to waste their time and resources on witch-hunt of innocent muslims.

[mercenary2k]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@arshad5

I think that unless I am mistaken if you read again you will notice that I said Ariel Sharon killed 3,000 Palestininians BTW Ariel Sharon is a jew. If you are a Defence Minister and you have a militia that is armed and you allow if to enter the refugee camps and before that tell them a lie that Palestinians murder their leader and have soldiers stand and watch and do not stop then you are responsible for those deaths as rightly the Kahn Commission noted.

How can it be right for NYPD to try to entrap law abiding citizens and infringe their rights? NYPD and other intelligence agencies have plenty of powers and resources and they don't need to waste their time and resources on witch-hunt of innocent muslims.

The Kahn Commission was an Israeli fact finding commission. Why would the racist and terrorist state of Israel conduct an inquiry into murders of Arabs?

Ariel Sharon is a Jew? :D Thats news to me.

As for the militia, they have never been brought to trial in Lebanon for what they did. Why is that?

If someone comes to me and says he wants to conduct a terrorist attack and needs my help, I will report him to the police rather than go along with him. So personally I have no sympathy for people who get caught up in these entrapment sweeps but I do admit there are people out there who are not as strong willed and can get easily swept up, so there needs to be a through oversight committee when such actions are taken.

New York city suffered the worst terrorist attack in history and thus these types of actions should not be surprising.

[StormRaiser]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

^^

Agree to disagree and move on. :) You can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink...

[arshad5]

Re: NYPD using agent provocateurs to incite extremism

@mercenary2k

The Kahn Commission was an Israeli fact finding commission. Why would the racist and terrorist state of Israel conduct an inquiry into murders of Arabs?

Ariel Sharon is a Jew? :D Thats news to me.

As for the militia, they have never been brought to trial in Lebanon for what they did. Why is that?

If someone comes to me and says he wants to conduct a terrorist attack and needs my help, I will report him to the police rather than go along with him. So personally I have no sympathy for people who get caught up in these entrapment sweeps but I do admit there are people out there who are not as strong willed and can get easily swept up, so there needs to be a through oversight committee when such actions are taken.

New York city suffered the worst terrorist attack in history and thus these types of actions should not be surprising.

Do you disagree with the findings of Israel's own commission? That Ariel Sharon was personally responsible?

Ariel Sharon was a Jews as you would well know.

Was'nt Israel the occupating force of Lebanon for 18 years? Shouldn't they have prosecuted these people. Didn't Israel provide sanctuary to the leaders of thier allies Phalanga after they withdrew from Lebanon in 2000?