And yes, there is no Pakistan when you talk about militancy in NWFP and FATA...Then you categorically attribute it to one province. This hypocrisy will not help Pakistan my friend.
You?
You?
Moi?
Mein?
Aap kis ki baaat kar rahe ho janaab mohtaram :)
lolz
Get real please i can't take "anything" serious what you are uttering here mate.
All the ethnic cr@p aside, the minister has a point.
He clearly says that terrorist scum needs to be controlled. If it is coming from Southern Punjab, then use governmental force to control it.
here is how the government control works.
First line of control - Police
Second line of control - FC and Rangers
Third line of control - Army
and
Fourth line of control - Say! Oh $hite and run like heck (just joking).
Swat has seen all the three so far and these lines of control were used in the same order.
Terrorists were able to easily defeat Swat Police, then the FC, and then smaller contingent of army.
In FARTA, police never existed. There is a joke of police called Khasadars. And they have long been defeated by the terrorists.
Terrorist then destroyed the second line aka FC.
And now is the turn for the third line of control aka Army.
Coming back to Southern punjab, if the police, and Rangers have been defeated, then for sure we should use military force.
And yes, there is no Pakistan when you talk about militancy in NWFP and FATA...Then you categorically attribute it to one province. This hypocrisy will not help Pakistan my friend.
Although I don't think you should direct this to happyheart but you're spot on with this point. Pakhtunkhwa and FATA have been repeatedly targeted both in terms of the military action and by many Pakistani racists.
Although I don't think you should direct this to happyheart but you're spot on with this point. Pakhtunkhwa and FATA have been repeatedly targeted both in terms of the military action and by many Pakistani racists.
first of all thank you about that what u said about me.
secondly Pak-One yaar i think its nothing to do with racist Pakistanis'
Because people living in FATA and PAKHTUNKHWA are in my eyes also Pakistani's
with respect to their own norms, language, values and ethnicity.
You do know that almost the whole world is a puppy of the USA with that i mean the governments. IF the USA can even contain FRANCE which is a superpower in EUROPE (in its own weard kind of way, because its a proud nation and they think europe should have its own army).
What is Pakistani leadership??? Pakistani leaders are also puppies of the USA and they will (unfortunatly) do anything to please their Big Boss.
first of all thank you about that what u said about me.
secondly Pak-One yaar i think its nothing to do with racist Pakistanis'
Because people living in FATA and PAKHTUNKHWA are in my eyes also Pakistani's
with respect to their own norms, language, values and ethnicity.
You do know that almost the whole world is a puppy of the USA with that i mean the governments. IF the USA can even contain FRANCE which is a superpower in EUROPE (in its own weard kind of way, because its a proud nation and they think europe should have its own army).
What is Pakistani leadership??? Pakistani leaders are also puppies of the USA and they will (unfortunatly) do anything to please their Big Boss.
This thread had nothing to do with terrorism but a lot more to do with the provincialism. If you read the article, the minister was talking about terrorism against the Pakistani state and Pakistani people to be stamped out not just in Waziristan but also in Southern Punjab - is there any one who can deny that a problem exists in both places?
Again, there is a tendency of MANY Pakistanis to think that this issue is limited to FATA or Pakhtunkhwa. People like that are the true racists who are avoiding the truth that extremism is widespread in Pakistan and there are several pockets throughout the country.
This thread had nothing to do with terrorism but a lot more to do with the provincialism. If you read the article, the minister was talking about terrorism against the Pakistani state and Pakistani people to be stamped out not just in Waziristan but also in Southern Punjab - is there any one who can deny that a problem exists in both places?
Again, there is a tendency of MANY Pakistanis to think that this issue is limited to FATA or Pakhtunkhwa. People like that are the true racists who are avoiding the truth that extremism is widespread in Pakistan and there are several pockets throughout the country.
Well i am afraid its a lost battle fighting racims which exist in every society
but again exremist should be ruled out of Pakistan i dont care about in which provinces these scums are hiding.
Well i am afraid its a lost battle fighting racims which exist in every society
but again exremist should be ruled out of Pakistan i dont care about in which provinces these scums are hiding.
Agreed. Pakistan is a muslim country and any of this violence against fellow muslim is haram.
Although I don't think you should direct this to happyheart but you're spot on with this point. Pakhtunkhwa and FATA have been repeatedly targeted both in terms of the military action and by many Pakistani racists.
ComOn ! Pakon!
FARTA is being targeted because the terrible tribals are doing JaiHind Jihad against Pak army.
It has nothing to do with Pakhtun, Pashtun, or other racists point of view. Anyone lumping Pashtuns with Maha-soods is out of his mind.
It is like someone reads the news about a Pashtun committing robbery, and suddenly turns into PakhtunKhawah issue, even though it is just a case of crime n robbery.
This is clearly and pathetically racist attitude, and I never expected that from you.
The reality is that our soldiers just sacrificed their precious lives to save Pashtun women and boys from being bombed back to hell aka stone age. It was clearly Pashtun -on-Pashtun crime that resulted in bombing of girls schools.
It was the group of Pashtun criminals who were giving lashes to a Pashtun girl right in the bazars.
Where was your Pashtun sentimental propaganda?
Pak army and is in fact saving civilized and urbanized Pashtuns who are getting raped and bombed by the Qaida and their freak-show supporters called Taliban.
Army/police from other ethnicities are there to PROTECT civilized Pashtuns from becoming hell-on-Earth Afghanis. And you are here mouthing off the Pakhtunkha issue.
I was in Pakistan in August and had the opportunity to meet the leaders of the anti-Taliban lashkar (volunteer army) of Bajaur’s Salarzai tribe. I am honoured that upon my request they travelled from Bajaur to meet me in Nowshehra and shared with me information about their anti-Taliban struggle. I am not mentioning their names for reasons of their security.
The area of the Salarzai tribe is on the border with Afghanistan. The tribe have collectively decided that there won’t be any Taliban on their soil. The Taliban have been driven out of the Salarzai area. The Salarzai lashkar, mostly made up of labourers and peasants, has successfully kept the Salazai area free of the Taliban.
Tens of Salarzail lashkar leaders have been target-killed. The Salarzai leaders informed me they hold the ISI responsible for the targeted killings. “The Taliban are just a façade. The real force is the ISI punishing us for our anti-Taliban struggle,” said one of the leaders.
The leaders said that Mamond Taliban headquarters used to be in Damadola, which is a few kilometres from the FC fort in Bajaur. The Mamond Taliban used to bomb Salarzai villages. The Salarzai tribal elders requested the Political Agent, the authorities of the FC and the Pakistani army to stop the Mamond Taliban. None of these offered any help. Finally the Salarzai lashkar took positions on the mountains and for two hours heavily bombarded the surrounding villages of the Mamond Taliban. At that point the political agent and a colonel of the army asked the Salarzai lashkar to stop the bombing. They gave the same old logic: who will fight the NATO forces from across the Afghan border if you eliminate the Taliban?
Following such encounters with the state authorities, the Salarzais decided to fire at any forces entering their area: be it the Taliban, Al Qaida, the army or the US or NATO. The Salarzais have taken up positions all over the area and are always on guard. The tribesmen take turns to defend those positions. Unlike the bombed out schools in the Taliban-controlled areas, all schools in the Salarzai region are functioning. The tribesmen are performing security duties in both girls’ and boys’ schools in the area.
The leaders informed me that there is a set pattern of target-killing of anti-Taliban Salarzai leader. Before each targeted killing all telephone links with the far-flung Salarzai area are cut off. The targeted killing takes place in 24 to 48 hours later. The telephone links are restored a couple of days after the assassinated leader has been buried. A day or so later a news item of a few lines appears in the newspapers about the killing. “No one in Pakistan seems to be bothered about the state-sponsored targeted killing of anti-Taliban Salarzai leaders. Our area is too far from the rest of Pakistan and our agony means nothing to fellow-Pakistanis. The Pakistani media never ever tries to probe into the targeted killings,” said one of the Salarzai leaders.
All telephone lines to the Salarzia area were dead the day I was meeting with the leaders. They said they were deeply worried whose turn it might be to be targeted for killing. Two days later the telephone links were restored. The same day they informed me on telephone that Malik Munasib Khan, the spokesman of the Salarzai lashkar, had been killed. They held the ISI responsible for his killing.
The Salarzai leaders also informed me that last year the army deliberately fired at those villages in Bajaur that were known to be staunchly anti-Taliban. They said one of their colleagues called Maj Gen Alam Khattak to ask him to stop the bombing of his village. “Major General Sahib! I will start a vendetta with you if you did not halt the bombing of my village immediately. I will make sure to kill you and your family at the first available opportunity,” they quoted one of their colleagues as saying. The major general asked him to meet Col Sajjad who was bombing the anti-Taliban villages from his base in Timergara. That colleague saw a big Bajaur map affixed on the wall in the office of Col Sajjad. The map had several encircled villages. Col Sajjad informed him that the map had been handed over to him by his commanders with the order to bomb all the encircled villages. “Our colleague’s blood boiled with anger: none of the villages had Taliban in them,” said the Salarzai leaders. The villages included Butmali, Danqul, Attkay, Matasha, Baro, Raghjan and Nazkai.
On the other hand, those Salarzai villages that had Taliban were not marked on the map or bombed by the army. Such villages are Pashat, Banda, Malasyed, Darra and Gundai. Now the Salarzai lashkar has cleared these villages from Taliban control, without any state support.
The leaders also made the accusation that the Salarzais are discriminated against by the state in allocation of developmental funds due to their hostility to the Taliban. The FATA Rural Development Project (FRDP) is working in Bajaur Agency but entire Salarzai area of the agency has been deliberately excluded by from the project. “A wilful under-development has been imposed on us as punishment for our anti-Taliban stance. The Salazai area would be included in FRDP if we allowed the Taliban to take control of our area. Without this, we Salarzais can beg as much as we can for development, but the state will never budge,” said the Salarzai tribal leaders.
The reason I write this piece is not to defame the institution of the Pakistani army, which I hold in high esteem. I just wish to request the President of Pakistan, the Chief of Army Staff and the DG of the ISI to pay attention to the complaints of the Salarzais and resolve their problems to the satisfaction of the tribe. The Salarzai leaders categorically told me they are loyal Pakistanis, but they are not ready to let the peace of their area be destroyed for the power games of the intelligence agencies. All they want from the state is peaceful and development.
I would request fellow-Pakistanis all over the country to support the Salarzais. I wonder why the civil society of Pakistan is so silent over the heroic anti-Taliban struggle of the Salarzais. Salarzais are the natural allies of all those who are against the Taliban and civil society should forcefully support them. I would request the Pakistani media to keep a close watch on the Salarzai area to discourage targeted killings there.
The Taliban are anti-civilisation. The Salarzais are the embodiment of civilisation because they are so oppose to the Taliban. I would request all civilised people in the world to morally support the Salarzais in the name of human civilisation.
The writer is a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo, and a member of Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy.
Pakistan’s army and its intelligence service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), have long been accused of supporting armed groups fighting in Afghanistan.
But the latest warning has come from no less than the US forces’ commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal.
In a report submitted to the Obama administration recently, he says “Afghanistan’s insurgency is clearly supported from Pakistan”.
McChrystal identifies the Shura Council of the Taliban in Quetta, in southwest Pakistan, led by Mullah Omar, as the biggest force fighting the Nato-led troops in Afghanistan.
Then there is the Haqqani network - run by Jalaluddin Haqqani - which is believed to have close ties to al-Qaeda and which uses North Waziristan as its main base.
McChrystal says its funding comes from Pakistan and Gulf Arab networks.
Finally, his report says, there is the Hezbi-I-Islam, run by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a veteran guerrilla from the Soviet war in the 1980s.
‘Triangle of terror’
Many Afghan officials agree with McChrystal’s assessment.
In an interview to Al Jazeera’s Zeina Khodr, Daoud Muradian, a senior adviser at the Afghan foreign ministry, said the main factor in the Taliban’s resurgence is the support it enjoys from Pakistan’s intelligence services.
“What we face in Afghanistan is a triangle of terror - it comprises Taliban, al-Qaeda and the ISI of Pakistan,” he said.
“Pakistan uses the Taliban as a leverage against us, against India and also as a leverage against the international community - to blackmail them. What we are facing in Afghanistan is state-sponsored terrorism.”
But Imtiaz Gul, a Pakistani expert on politics and security in the tribal regions, dismissed the Afghan authorities’ allegations of a Pakistani connection as out of date.
“This was true some time ago, but I am not sure you can lump the ISI with the insurgency given their co-operation with the US military,” he said, speaking to Al Jazeera from Islamabad.
“If you went through the statement by General McChrystal two days ago, he spoke about the increasing Indian influence in Afghanistan. This is the first official expression of concern on the Indian involvement inside Afghanistan.”
He said that “if Afghanistan remains destabilised … we cannot have a stabilised Pakistan”.
FARTA is being targeted because the terrible tribals are doing JaiHind Jihad against Pak army.
It has nothing to do with Pakhtun, Pashtun, or other racists point of view. Anyone lumping Pashtuns with Maha-soods is out of his mind.
It is like someone reads the news about a Pashtun committing robbery, and suddenly turns into PakhtunKhawah issue, even though it is just a case of crime n robbery.
This is clearly and pathetically racist attitude, and I never expected that from you.
The reality is that our soldiers just sacrificed their precious lives to save Pashtun women and boys from being bombed back to hell aka stone age. It was clearly Pashtun -on-Pashtun crime that resulted in bombing of girls schools.
It was the group of Pashtun criminals who were giving lashes to a Pashtun girl right in the bazars.
Where was your Pashtun sentimental propaganda?
Pak army and is in fact saving civilized and urbanized Pashtuns who are getting raped and bombed by the Qaida and their freak-show supporters called Taliban.
Army/police from other ethnicities are there to PROTECT civilized Pashtuns from becoming hell-on-Earth Afghanis. And you are here mouthing off the Pakhtunkha issue.
First off, it's Pak-one, say it right or step off.
Secondly, YOU are the numero-uno Pakhtun hating racist on this board, so it takes some special kind of drugs to spew your verbal diarahha on this board. Go home OLD MAN you time was over, when you started talking about contemporary geopolitics within a Cold War era lens.
Thirdly, do you deny the extremist problem in Punjab? or the Punjabi Taliban? Taking this further, how do you feel about secular fundamentalist Urdu speaking mafia known as the MQM whose mayor in a PATHETIC attempt to stop migrants from Swat/FATA from settling in Karachi, brushed them with the "Taliban" brush when all those poor people were trying to do was save themselves and their livelihood. So save your crocodile tears for some one who doesn't know what you're all about.
Don't forget how much Pakistan, Russia, and the US played in messing up Afghanistan. You think that you're so much better than the Afghanis, lining up for the same beggars bowls (Lugar-Kerry) and Pakistani PM and Presidents running to DC with their tails between their legs like Karzai. Give me a break.
It's because of haters like you, that large segments of Pakhtuns are disenchanted with the attitude of the Pakistani state..the problem is systemic. Since when did Pakistan only mean Punjab+Sind+Urdu Speakers? You should've given me that memo, so that we wouldn't be having this issue.
Finally, its FATA not FARTA...at least get the name right, after all your bloody British overlords made it up.
Afrasiyab Khattak wants timeline for action in Fata
Seeks end to terrorists’ safe havens
Monday, September 28, 2009
Tauseef-ur-Rahman
PESHAWAR: Provincial President of the Awami National Party (ANP) Senator Afrasiyab Khattak Sunday asked the federal government to give a timeline for the elimination of terrorists’ safe havens in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata).
“We want answer from the central government that for how long the terrorists would continue to rule Fata? Now is the right time for us to demand a timeframe from the government regarding the dismantling of the bases of terrorists in Waziristan,” Khattak said in his hard-hitting remarks while while speaking at a reference for the late Afghan president Dr Najibullah on his 13th death anniversary at the Bacha Khan Markaz.
“A decisive operation is required in Fata like the one in Malakand division. Let me be clear that the people of tribal areas have nothing to do with terrorism. In fact they are the victims of terrorism and have been made hostage by terrorists,” Khattak said.
He said that the terrorists had captured land from the people of tribal areas. Hundreds of their elders had been killed and time would prove that tribal people were the strongest opponents of the terrorists, he added.
He criticised the government for leaving the people of tribal areas in the lurch. “The tribesmen are helpless as the state is not fulfilling its responsibilities and the federal government has not devised a comprehensive strategy to deal with the situation,” Khattak said.
The ANP leader insisted that there was no war in Afghanistan. “There was chaos, warlordism, drug issues and many other problems in Afghanistan. The base of war, he believed, was on the Pakistan side of the Pak-Afghan border. I am sure of peace in Afghanistan if the masterminds of war ceased their game,” he argued.
“The masterminds of this war-machine are sitting across Attock. This is being run and controlled from Punjab. If the situation continues and the solution is not properly sought out, we will be correct to understand that this is genocide of Pakhtuns,” Khattak alleged.
He feared if the Fata problem was not addressed immediately, a roadmap could come from the United Nations or some country because the issue was of international magnitude. He warned the menace of terrorism would continue to exist until concrete and effective steps were taken for dealing with the militants in Fata.
Khattak, whose party is an ally of the PPP government both at the Centre and NWFP, said the vehicle of Tariq Azizuddin, former ambassador to Afghanistan, who was kidnapped and later recovered from Waziristan, was still in the use of a militant commander in Miramshah with diplomatic number plate.
“Where are the kidnapped Afghan ambassador and the Iranian diplomat? They are with these terrorists. What sort of state is this where we cannot protect foreign diplomats?” Khattak questioned
"This is in response to two letters in this Newspaper dated 29, September 2009 in response to my article dated 27 September 2009.
As I mentioned in the article, the information was given to me by some leaders of the Salarzai lashkar who wish not to be named due to their security. I have to respect their wish. I also made it clear in the article that I do not have any intentions whatsoever to defame the security forces of Pakistan, who I greatly respect, including the FC.
The reason I wrote this article was to highlight some of the most disturbing facts and perceptions I observed all over FATA and NWFP. One of the facts is that hundreds of anti-Taliban tribal leaders have been target killed. There has never been independent investigation of the target killing during the Musharaf government when they started and in the present government in which they continue to happen. The perception of most of the Pakhtun that I have been interacting with all over FATA and NWFP, especially families of the target killed people is that officers in the security force did the target killing. They clearly name the individual officers of the armed forces along with their military ranks. Taliban , they said, were used as a smoke screen for the purpose to hide the killers among the security forces. The families are afraid to say it publicly but anyone who wins over their confidence, they open up their heart to them.
**As per the perception, the aim of the targeted killing is create a full leadership space for the religious extremists in the Pakhtun society. The anti-Talian lashkars are traps. A lashkar would clearly identify those who would have the heart to stand up to the Taliban. Thus the lashkar leaders would continued to be target killed by the intelligence agencies until there is no one left among the Pakhtuns who can take up arms against the Taliban. Because the intelligence agencies cannot create chaos in the Pakhtun areas in Afghanistan due to the presence of the US and NATO forces there, they need the Pakhtun areas in Pakistan to be dominated by religious extremists. The intelligence agencies are engaged in deceiving the world and fellow Pakistanis. There is an understanding between the Taliban and the army: the Taliban will not attack any one above the rank of colonel in the army and the army will not attack the Taliban leaders. This means that Allah Ditha (a reference to Punjabi soldiers and Taliban foot soldiers) and Thothi Gul (a reference to Pakhtun soldiers and Taliban foot soldiers) can die and the leadership on both sides would enjoy the deadly game and the US and the Petro-Dollars it attracts for the military and militants. Meanwhile, the welfare of the Pakhtun citizens of Pakistan can also go to hell. **
I never said these perceptions are correct. But they are there lurking in silence due to fear of the intelligence agencies. As I write these lines there is a news coming from Bannu about the target killing of an anti-Taliban leader.
The war on terror is the war for hearts and minds. How can the security forces of Pakistan win this war in presence of such perceptions in the one of the most important battlegrounds of the war on terror?
We in Pakistan need an open public debate on the issues to counter the perceptions. Moreover, the state must initiate independent judicial investigation on who killed hundreds of anti-Taliban tribal elders and leaders all over FATA and NWFP and to make sure that no other anti-Taliban leaders are target killed from now onwards.
Now coming to the letter of Malik Munasib Khan. As can bee seen in my article, the information about him was communicated to me via phone by the Salarzai leaders. I was also given two other names who they said were killed along with Mulik Munasib. I clearly remember all these names. I did not mention their names in my article because I was told they were not leaders of the lashkar. The problem is that I am now back in Norway and cannot go to the Salarzai leaders to see whether this news was a misunderstanding or mistake. The Salarzai leaders complain that their phones are being taped by the ISI and they cannot talk anything about the article on phone. So I have no option to wait until the leaders are confident enough talk on phone.
Meanwhile, I am very sorry for any mental distress that my article might have caused to Malik Munasib Khan, his family and friends. I happy to hear that he is alive. I hope the information about the other two people would also prove wrong.
First off, it's Pak-one, say it right or step off.
Secondly, YOU are the numero-uno Pakhtun hating racist on this board, so it takes some special kind of drugs to spew your verbal diarahha on this board. Go home OLD MAN you time was over, when you started talking about contemporary geopolitics within a Cold War era lens.
Thirdly, do you deny the extremist problem in Punjab? or the Punjabi Taliban? Taking this further, how do you feel about secular fundamentalist Urdu speaking mafia known as the MQM whose mayor in a PATHETIC attempt to stop migrants from Swat/FATA from settling in Karachi, brushed them with the "Taliban" brush when all those poor people were trying to do was save themselves and their livelihood. So save your crocodile tears for some one who doesn't know what you're all about.
Don't forget how much Pakistan, Russia, and the US played in messing up Afghanistan. You think that you're so much better than the Afghanis, lining up for the same beggars bowls (Lugar-Kerry) and Pakistani PM and Presidents running to DC with their tails between their legs like Karzai. Give me a break.
It's because of haters like you, that large segments of Pakhtuns are disenchanted with the attitude of the Pakistani state..the problem is systemic. Since when did Pakistan only mean Punjab+Sind+Urdu Speakers? You should've given me that memo, so that we wouldn't be having this issue.
Finally, its FATA not FARTA...at least get the name right, after all your bloody British overlords made it up.
How come you call LeT, which sent 10 suicide jehadist (all from Punjab) to spread meyham in Mumbai last year, LeJ, JeM, Harkatul-Mujahideen, Hizbul-Mujahideen, etc. , the Punjab based groups, civilzed?
Remember, LeJ (Lashkar-e-Jhangvi), JeM, etc. are presently providing the bulk of suicide bombers to TTP.
helloooo
this attack on GHQ is not the only attack in Pakistan
did you forget all the other attacks?
Anyhow this is not a fight between different provinces of Pakistan
what do you want to achive with pointing finger at Punjab?
Its the responsibility of the Pakistani government to protect its people
from North to South and from East to the West.
Every inch of Pakistan is the responsibitly of the Pakistan government.
Terrorism is Evil we have to fight together all the provinces all the ethinic communities of Pakistan are victim of terrorism.
Pakistani government has done a poor job of making sure all villages were treated equally when it came to distributing aide. The villages of interior sindh are an example of pathetic efforts from the government to make sure development occurs in these villages. It is left to NGO's to improve the state of human suffering in Pakistan. Where does all the aid money go? They can't even account for it when asked.
How come you call LeT, which sent 10 suicide jehadist (all from Punjab) to spread meyham in Mumbai last year, LeJ, JeM, Harkatul-Mujahideen, Hizbul-Mujahideen, etc. , the Punjab based groups, civilzed?
Remember, LeJ (Lashkar-e-Jhangvi), JeM, etc. are presently providing the bulk of suicide bombers to TTP.
Pakistani government has done a poor job of making sure all villages were treated equally when it came to distributing aide. The villages of interior sindh are an example of pathetic efforts from the government to make sure development occurs in these villages. It is left to NGO's to improve the state of human suffering in Pakistan. Where does all the aid money go? They can't even account for it when asked.
Well as you said it yourself its pathetic Pakistan government!!