NWFP debates shariah laws / Shariah law: Fact and Fiction (merged)

The government in Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Province has unveiled legislation which, if approved, will bring strict Islamic law into force for the first time in the country’s history.
The bill aims to give Sharia law precedence over secular provincial law and stipulates that every Muslim will be bound by it.

Deputies are also considering a bill to establish a new Department of Vice and Virtue.

Both bills are expected to be passed, as religious hardliners run the province with an absolute majority.

Women’s groups and other critics have called the move “creeping Talebanisation” - fearing it will be like the former Taleban regime in neighbourng Afghanistan.

Many people in North-West Frontier Province, which borders Afghanistan, have close ideological ties to the Taleban.

Pakistan’s federal law enforcers have little jurisdiction over the area, which is more strictly conservative than other parts of the country.

Analysts say President Musharraf will be watching events with some discomfort - he is keen to convince his Western allies that Pakistan is an ally in the war against terrorism, nor part of the problem.

‘Supreme law’

Sharia follows the moral and religious codes laid down in the Islamic holy book, the Koran.

The alliance of religious hardliners which runs North-West Frontier Province has been working for months on the bill.

Tuesday’s session in the provincial assembly was adjourned after a first reading.

“In the whole of the North-West Frontier Province, Sharia will be the supreme law in provincial matters, and all courts in the province will be bound to interpret and explain provincial law according to Sharia,” the bill states.

Deputies now have a minimum of three days to consider its contents and consult with colleagues.

The details have been closely guarded, but the bill is expected to cover law and order as well as the social and economic welfare of the province’s people.

**It calls for free education, for example, for all children up to 16.

The BBC’s Paul Anderson in Islamabad says so-called “honour killings”, in which women are killed for adultery or other marital impropriety, are expected to be outlawed. **

The move has been welcomed by members of the Islamic coalition which governs the province.

“This is an historic day, not only for this province but for the whole country because we are setting an example,” said one leading member, Maulana Abdul Jalil Jan.

Women scared

But critics say they are worried provincial leaders are following in the footsteps of the Taleban, the Islamic hardliners who ruled Afghanistan and drove women and girls out of jobs and schools, back into their homes.

“The way Islamic parties have started imposing certain laws in the NWFP we feel will deprive many people of their basic rights,” Kamla Hayyat of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said.

Some women in the provincial capital, Peshawar, fear they may be banned from working for foreign non-governmental organisations.

And the planned creation of a Department of Vice and Virtue has prompted concern among some people who recall pictures of the Taleban vice squads dispensing summary justice in Afghanistan.

Supporters of the move, however, say all they are trying to do is curb obscenity and protect human decency.

1) It’s great that they are making everyone go to school and I would have been happy with just primary education but up till 16? WOW! But I want to know how do they planning to provide such assistance? Is it going to be a public school system like the US? If so they will have to increase their tax ravenues … and how do they plan to do that?

What about the ever increasing private schools? Will they be abolished?

Funding really becomes an issue in the light of the fact that MMA believes in gender-segregated education.

2) I didn’t know that “honor killing” was lawful under current secular law, is it? And would the state be taking over that role, i.e: killing the indecent?

This was expected..pushing for a right wing ultra conservative agenda, while sugar coating it with statements about education and honor killings.

anyways ahmadjee, you caught some good points. We were discussing the one related to education earlier as well when punjab govt had made a similar move.

I dont know how much the govt schools charge right now, but I believe its minimal to begin with. Kids not going to school are less due to teh school's costs but either because their families dont think its needed to send them to schools. or the kids have to work to support the families. Just having free education is not going to do jack. A more holistic view of the situation needs to be undertaken..make it mandatory to have kids attend school to a certain age, understand that economic conditions still will make it necessary for some kids to work, in which case evening, weekend schools should be supported as well as a monitoring system to ensure that the predatory employment practices of places which employ these kids are curbed with minimum wages, maximum working hours etc established.

But I doubt that at this point much thought has gone into it, it was just paired up with the news of the vice and virtue squad so if you criticize it, the supporters will have the education leg to stand on ;)

well I have mixed thoughts ........

education and outlawing honour killing is good.

But most of the ppl I know in peshawar did not welcome this move , specially sagregated schools and women have to wear a burka , men shouldnt wear trousers. thats just Bull sheit!!!!

As I will be in Peshawar in weeks time , I will make it a point and wear my Leather trouser and jacket and will travel in the local bus from saddar to university.:D

Re: NWFP debates shariah laws

[quote]
2) I didn't know that "honor killing" was lawful under current secular law, is it? And would the state be taking over that role, i.e: killing the indecent?
[/QUOTE]

I believe that they are making honour killing into a specific crime, much like how racially motivated assault in the UK is a more serious crime than common assault. What this hopefully means is a concerted effort to stamp out honour killing by the religiously motivated provincial government, rather than the laissez-faire approache taken by tradition-and-culturally motivated secular provincial governments of the past. Ending honour killing will mean confronting the traditions and culture of the NWFP. Hopefully the other provincial govts will follow a similar course of action.

If the indecent committed a crime for which they deserve death (according to the Shariah), the NWFP govt would like to do that. So you'll probably see an increase in executions for murder, rape and adultery.

On the other hand, bear in mind that in some parts of the NWFP, many other minor infractions are causes for death by local tradition, not Shariah - the law is targetted at these cases, such as where a woman gets killed for merely talking to another man other than her husband.

Re: Re: NWFP debates shariah laws

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

, such as where a woman gets killed for merely talking to another man other than her husband.
[/QUOTE]

MS : bhai jaan , please get ur facts right....thats not true honour killing is a totally different ball game , and no female in NWFP is shot for talking to another man then her husband and the husband is protected by law...That is crap....NO WAY.

That might occur in the tribal areas , BUT THEN AGAIN tribal areas are NOT PART OF PAKISTAN < LET ALONE NWFP>

From my "limited" research, honour killings are tried in court as homicide cases where a party has to press charges against the other for it to proceed. In many cases as the "family" is the guilty party, most cases are never even registered. When Samia Sarwar's case sprung up, Mushraff gave many lectures on how the law is there & peoples attitude that needs changing. Nothing happened.

I want to know how will this new legislation affect such a culture block.

According to Amnesty International of Pakistan, close to a 1000 women are killed every year as “honour killings”. I believe it, keeping in mind the fact that they do count cases that are never registered & a young woman suddenly dies in an "accident". The laws are steps in the right direction only if it is passed with the right intentions & targeted to change the culture.

When a man take four of his cousins & accuse his "indecent" wife of adultery & the state according to the "Sharia" law will put her to death, he got it far easier than if he had to convince four cousins to pull the trigger! The state just made it a piece of cake.

As Kauser S. Khan, with Aga Khan University in Karachi, has written, "It is female sexuality that men in Pakistan are most worried about. Their own sexuality is not an issue -- it is there to be satisfied, and they do it at will."

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ahmadjee: *As Kauser S. Khan, with Aga Khan University in Karachi, has written, "*It is female sexuality that men in Pakistan are most worried about. Their own sexuality is not an issue -- it is there to be satisfied, and they do it at will."
[/QUOTE]

Slightly off topic, but this was also one of the conclusions drawn by Fauzia Saeed in her book Taboo.

I agree wih PKC, and the cases of honour killing MS is inferring are as common in other Provinces. The Tribal areas are under direct Federal government control and the laws against honour killing would not apply there. But I believe Musharraf declared honour killing murder about 2 years ago.

looks like it passed..

It is the first time the strict code, based upon the teachings of the Koran, has been in force in Pakistan in the country’s history.

The bill gives Sharia precedence over secular provincial law and stipulates that every Muslim will be bound by it.

Critics fear a rerun of the Taleban, the Islamic hardliners who ruled neighbouring Afghanistan and drove women and girls out of jobs and schools, back into their homes.

Supporters of the move, however, say all they are trying to do is curb obscenity and protect human decency.

Women’s rights

The bill was passed unanimously by members of the provincial assembly, which is dominated by hardliners.

God is great! God is great!

Ruling party members after vote

Opposition parties tried to water down some of the bill’s provisions, including those concerning women’s rights, but withdrew amendments in the face of overwhelming odds.

The bill still needs the signature of the provincial governor to become law. Analysts say that is a formality.

The planned creation of a Department of Vice and Virtue has prompted concern among some people who recall pictures of the Taleban vice squads dispensing summary justice in Afghanistan.

Hardliners have been cracking down on activities they consider un-Islamic since they swept to power in the province last October.

Several cinemas have been closed down, and musicians have complained of harassment.

Unease in Islamabad

Many people in North-West Frontier Province have close ideological ties to the Taleban.

Pakistan’s federal law enforcers have little jurisdiction over the area, which is more strictly conservative than other parts of the country.

Analysts say President Musharraf will be watching events with some discomfort.

He is keen to convince his Western allies that Pakistan is an ally in the war against terrorism, nor part of the problem.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by punjab da sher: *
looks like it passed..
[/QUOTE]

Lo ji..gayee bhains paani mein.

Lo ji..gayee bhains paani mein.

looking at how sehatmand (ma;shallah) these MMA leaders are, the correct term would be bhainsa..

I have issues with the way some of these laws are being literally shoved at people's faces but its the price of controlled democracy that Mushy talked about. People actually voted for these folks and will now have to accept these revised laws simply because the assembly represents the people's mandate. If majority of citizens in these areas have issues, they would have to take this up on the next elections. Patience and tolerance are important elements of a functioning democracy.

:up: so is relocation..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ghalib: *
If majority of citizens in these areas have issues, they would have to take this up on the next elections. Patience and tolerance are important elements of a functioning democracy.
[/QUOTE]

Indeed, however it does not mean that one can not criticize the NWFP govt. If the people like it, they can vote these people back in, if they dislike it..they can vote them out. In my view, at the minimum it would serve as an example to ppl in othe rprovinces, especially sinch and punjab to not vote these clowns in.

not too worried because it is at a provincial level, if they were in power at a federal level, then even though they would have used democracy to get into power, they would have established a theocratic ditatorship to keep the grip on power.

look at examples of clergy in power pretty much anywhere in any time and you will know what I mean.

Shariyat Bill In NWFP, A SUIT TO FOLLOW ?

SHOULD THIS NOT BE FOLLOWED ALL OVER PAKISTAN?

AFTER ALL PAKISTAN WAS MADE FOR MUSLIM TO PRACTICE AND IMPLEMENT THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR INVIDUAL LIVES AND NATIONAL CONSTITUTION.

I REMEMBER A QUOTE BY MR. JINNAH THAT QURAN WILL BE THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN.

WHY DONT WE WANT ISLAM IN PAKISTAN?

DO WE FEAR THAT MEN HAS TO KEEP BEARDS? WHAT IF WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?

DO WE FEAR THAT WOMEN HAS TO DO PARDAH? WHY CAN'T THEY AFTER ALL QURAN HAS ORDERED TO?

DO WE FEAR THAT WE WONT BE ABLE TO SEE HALF DRESSES WOMEN IN FILMS AND TV.

DO WE FEAR THAT INTEREST OR RIBA WILL BE KILLED SO HOW WOULD BE WE 110/- ON 100/- FROM BANKS?

WHY DO WE FEAR TELL ME.

PLZ SERIOUS AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION ONLY

what about the statement that there is no cumpulsion in religion.

why do the mullahs call themselves maulanas? after all they are supposedly knowledgebale about religion :)

I am all for an islamic society, but not at all comfortable by teh psychotic puritanical version preaced by MMA cronies.

btw, on your keyboard..there is a key to teh left labelled "Caps Lock" kindly release it before your next post. gracias

I am a big supporter for Sharia, but what is being implemented in NWFP is not even close to my vision of what an Islamic law at a state level is.

I support the Sharia which:

#1. Evolves with age along with the modern world, within the frame work of Quran!
#2. Shariah that is debated on a public forum, discussed, criticized, can be challenged in court of law.
#3. Decisions are made within the consent of the majority of the public opinion & not what a few clerics believe to be the case.

For example, gender-segregated schools & public offices is an issue which should be discussed on a public forum between different candidates BEFORE the election. The candidates supporting the segregation on the basis of Sharia should explain their points in a convincing manner pointing out the positives of such a move. Such discussions should include some sort of data analysis, some facts & figures relating to public opinion on the issue, cost & feasibility of such a legislative change.

What happens right now is that the candidates run saying they will bring Shariah & Islam, but what Shariah and how that will impact the society, economy etc. is never discussed! The usual argument is, “don’t you want the pristine teachings of Islam?” and everyone affirms and they roll on the tide of emotions.

I think this is all good. On two counts.

  1. Atleast MMA has an ideology. Right or wrong, they are sticking with it. This can't be said about some other large political parties in Pak whose policies are as flexible as a Yo-yo.

  2. MMA only controls NWFP. As much as I like NWFP and its people, they voted for MMA. Now this is a test-case for both of them. MMA can enforce their vision of governance and legislation in that province, and the rest of Pakistan can see the changes. Come next election, if other provinces decide that MMA is indeed the next best thing after sliced-bread, they will vote for them and bring them into power all over. If the test fails, maybe even NWFP folks will kick them out and lay to rest the myth that religious parties are never given a chance, else they'd change the destiny of the whole nation... bla bla.

So, its all good. Let MMA carry out their election manifestos and implement their definitions of Islam and sharia and government. Atleast they are only doing it in one (smallest) province.

Faisal: I would make some observations, the MMA may have been elected, but in a Democracy any laws passed are open to review by the courts. The Shariah law, they have passed includes a Religious Police and has a clause stating it cannot be challenged.

The MMA by using the Shariah alw is attempting to score political points and dare the Federal government into dismissing it’s provincial government. It would then use the sympathy it gets to win more seats epspecially from Punjab. For local opinion about the Law here is a good articles by a well known journalist in peshawar:

http://peshawar1.com/htmls/ismail/ismail13.html

I have been around long enough to know the local opinions are only as indicative of the public perception as the author wants them to be. Pollsters can get any result they want, but for their own reputation is on line. The only reliable measure is a free and fair referendum and election but that can only happen so often. So we are basically just hazarding a guess as to how the electorate in NWFP are perceiving these changes as.

But, I won't take anything away from your argument. Primarily, because I readily admit that I am not up to speed on all the nuances of the laws being approved in NWFP Provincial Assembly. If some of those laws trample on basic human rights, or take away powers of the judicial review (which is basically the third pillar of governance), by all means these aspects should be criticized and remedied as much as possible.

The basic point of my earlier post remains that as a duly elected government in the province, MMA should be permitted to implement their electoral promises. Other than the rampant anti-US vote which they conveniently captured, they also ran on a set platform of promises (mostly related to Islam and Sharia), and the biggest disservice that can be done, will be to stop them from converting those promises to reality, by unnecessary means.

I will be honest here, that I am not particularly fond of the policies espoused by MMA, but I think we should all be reasonable enough to agree that they are elected, fairly and squarely, and so they should be given an opportunity to prove their mettle, or otherwise, to the people who elected them.

Faisal

as elected govt they have the ability to run teh place, but if an elected govt starts suppressing ppl, violating their basic rights..are they still representative?

there have been plenty of revolts against elected govts because they went back on their promises or started being more self seving.

but lets see, at minimum they will serve as a bad example and a warning to ppl in other rpovinces :)