NWFP debates shariah laws / Shariah law: Fact and Fiction (merged)

[Degas]

Re: Shariyat Bill In NWFP, A SUIT TO FOLLOW ?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ophiolites: *
SHOULD THIS NOT BE FOLLOWED ALL OVER PAKISTAN?

** If u mean by Taliban laws which served a particular approach of a very minor muslims in the world then no.. how many muslims countries in the world had favorable feelings for that Taliban state.. devoid of any social justice and hell for non-muslims.. **

AFTER ALL PAKISTAN WAS MADE FOR MUSLIM TO PRACTICE AND IMPLEMENT THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR INVIDUAL LIVES AND NATIONAL CONSTITUTION.

I REMEMBER A QUOTE BY MR. JINNAH THAT QURAN WILL BE THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN.

** If u read constitution of Pakistan .. it clearly states all laws of country had to be according to Quran and sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).. so the laws that are not can be easily challenged .. muslims are free to practice their lives as muslims in Pakistan.. and that was the objective of making a state like Pakistan.. **

WHY DONT WE WANT ISLAM IN PAKISTAN?

** Islam is not a entity that can be brought from somewhere.. muslims leading their lives according to Quran and Sunnah are leading their lives as muslims.. **

DO WE FEAR THAT MEN HAS TO KEEP BEARDS? WHAT IF WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?

** .. and where in Islam there is a law that men have to keep beards? men keep beards as sunnah.. and its their individual faith.. closing or beating hair dressers like in Taliban era is a idiotic.. tell me one instance during Holy Prophet (PBUH) time or sahabas time when any one was punished or rebuked and beaten for not keeping beard like Taliban did.. **

DO WE FEAR THAT WOMEN HAS TO DO PARDAH? WHY CAN'T THEY AFTER ALL QURAN HAS ORDERED TO?

** If u mean by shuttle cock purdah then its something that only few in Islamic world agree too.. its more of a cultural trend than Islamic.. checkout Malaysia for example.. all girls and women wear veils but work too.. they are muslims by words and deeds.. **

DO WE FEAR THAT WE WONT BE ABLE TO SEE HALF DRESSES WOMEN IN FILMS AND TV.

** Yes I agree to that .. there should be more checks on our media.. but not all out attack .. pornography should be stopped ... **

DO WE FEAR THAT INTEREST OR RIBA WILL BE KILLED SO HOW WOULD BE WE 110/- ON 100/- FROM BANKS?

** this matter is debatable.. there are many views on riba and usuary.. Supreme court has already given one verdict.. if one should not get 110 for 100 then value of ones house and land should remain same for ever!! usuary which guarantees interest without ones effort is not acceptible in Islam only.. **

WHY DO WE FEAR TELL ME.

** no one fears true Islam where social justice is prevalent, subjects are treaetd with respect, minorities have due rights... where religion is something which gives hope and not fear.. **

PLZ SERIOUS AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION ONLY

** as Fraudia already have wrote.. please dont use CAPS.. its sign of arrogance .. **

[/QUOTE]

[Pakistani_Tiger]

*Originally posted by Faisal: *
MMA only controls NWFP.

Dear, I think MMA control Baluchistan as well going by Provincial seats. Though, they aren’t in majority but lil factions out there supports MMA. Last time, I heard MMA will enforced Shariah Laws in Baluchistan Province, too; and they are very eager to pass the bill in the Baluchistan Provincial Assembly. Punjab and Sindh are out of their reach.

Personally, I don’t have any objection of what MMA is doing in NWFP or what they gonna do in Baluchistan in the coming days. Remember, people of NWFP and Baluchistan overwhemlingly voted for MMA. Democracy, you wanted it, you got it. It’s the decision people made in the Elections 2002. Result, they got in shape of MMA. Whether people in those provinces(NWFP and Baluchistan) like it or not, they gotta live with it. Federal Govt. should not and will not interfare in their decisions.

As for local Govt. support, there’s always Mushy.

President vows to protect local government system

[ahmadjee]

Pakistan clash looms over Sharia

President Pervez Musharraf has sacked two senior officials in Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), which voted to introduce Sharia law on Monday.

The move is a sign of a growing confrontation between the central government and the Islamist leaders in NWFP.

The two sacked men are the head of the provincial police and the chief civil servant.

Their dismissal follows reports of vigilantes attacking targets they consider to be un-Islamic.

Pakistan’s federal law enforcers have little jurisdiction over NWFP, which is more strictly conservative than other parts of the country.

“The chief secretary, and inspector general of NWFP police have been asked to report to Islamabad,” federal government minister Daniyal Aziz told reporters, according to the AFP news agency.

“New officers will be taking charge in the province.”

The BBC’s Zaffar Abbas in Islamabad says the decision to replace the two most senior administrative officers of the province is a first clear indication that the federal government and the NWFP are on a collision course.

Senior officials in Islamabad insist that the dismissals have nothing to do with the decision by the provincial government to enforce Sharia.

Our correspondent says this is only partly true.

The decision to replace the two officials was taken following reports that the provincial authorities had failed to maintain law and order in the city of Peshawar

They have been criticised for failing to stop groups of Islamic vigilantes from attacking video shops and billboards in the name of eliminating obscenity.

President Musharraf’s government intends to appoint a new chief of police and chief secretary who will ensure law and order prevails.

It is not clear if the provincial government would accept these moves.

Observers say that if it refuses, this could trigger a bigger political crisis in the country.

Wednesday’s moves were foreshadowed on Monday when the federal Minister for Information, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, said Prime Minister Zafarullah Jamali would soon announce “administrative measures” for NWFP.

NWFP’s Chief Minister, Akram Khan Durrani, responded by saying any such moves would be unconstitutional.

Koranic teachings

The bill passed in NWFP gives Sharia precedence over secular provincial law and stipulates that every Muslim will be bound by it.

Details of the law are vague but observers say it sets the tone for the type of rule the province’s people can expect.

It proposes restricting the rights of women, and calls for education and financial systems to be brought into line with the teachings of the Koran.

It was passed unanimously on Monday by members of the provincial assembly, which is dominated by hardliners.

Opposition parties withdrew amendments in the face of overwhelming odds.

The bill still needs the signature of the provincial governor to become law. Analysts say that is a formality.

Women’s rights

Critics fear a re-run of life under the Taleban, the Islamic hardliners who ruled Afghanistan and drove women and girls out of jobs and schools, back into their homes.

Supporters say all they are trying to do is to curb obscenity and protect human decency.

Human rights groups have condemned the moves towards Sharia, saying the new law could be used to persecute religious minorities.

Hardliners have been cracking down on activities they consider un-Islamic since an alliance of religious parties swept to power in NWFP last October.

Several cinemas have been closed and laws brought in banning the examination of women by male doctors and forbidding men from coaching women athletes.

Civil servants have been ordered to pray five times a day and curbed the sale of music and videos.

The planned creation of a Department of Vice and Virtue has prompted particular concern among some people who recall Taleban vice squads dispensing summary justice in Afghanistan.

What’s in the bill
No interest payments in banks
More Islamic studies in schools
Administration to be subject to Islamic law
Drive against ‘obscenity and vagrancy’
Ban on the display of firearms

[underthedome]

June 16, 2003 / Vol. 161 No. 23
Notebook
Pakistan: Law of the land
A drive to enforce Islamic law threatens to unravel Musharraf’s coalition government

Once again, Pakistan’s mullahs are on a collision course with President Pervez Musharraf. In the latest clash, on June 2, religious groups that control Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier province declared that Shari’a law would be enforced in their territory—superceding the British-style legal system that is Pakistan’s law of the land. Shari’a is the strict religious code that governs Islam. From now on, Arabic, the language of the Koran, will be obligatory in schools; girls 12 years and older will have to wear the head-to-toe veil known as the burqa, and women will not be allowed to leave home unaccompanied by a husband or male relative.

A challenge to Pakistan’s shaky, secular government is the last thing Musharraf needs, but the mullahs are pushing a showdown. The Muttahidda Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), a political bloc of six religious groups, intends to set up a morality police to enforce Islamic virtue, raising cries among human-rights activists against the “Talibanization” of the province. But popular support for the change is evident: even before the law imposing Shari’a was passed, Islamic youths roamed the town of Peshawar tearing down billboards featuring images of unburqa’d women. The religious parties warned Musharraf not to interfere. “We will resist all threats,” said the MMA’s Secretary General, Maulana Fazlur Rehman.

In retaliation, Musharraf could dissolve the provincial assembly. But the MMA is making threats of its own, warning that 68 of its members serving in parliament may resign if Islamabad tries to overturn the local law. That poses no direct peril to Musharraf, who took power in a bloodless coup in 1999. But the flimsy coalition Musharraf stitched together after last October’s elections could come unraveled if there are mass resignations. And if the elected government falls, Musharraf’s popularity could plummet, as could his standing with his main international ally: the U.S.

Meanwhile, a nationwide alliance of mullahs has launched a direct attack on Musharraf, demanding that he no longer serve as both the country’s President and army chief. They say they are willing to drop that demand—if Musharraf agrees to apply Shari’a law throughout the country, a step the President, a religious moderate, is loathe to make. If he wants to save his façade of civilian government and retain international support, he may have to swallow hard and make peace with two exiled former Prime Ministers, Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, whose parties together are strong enough to foil the clerics.

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501030616-457398,00.html

[Islamabad]

Nobody critices Musharraf for not correcting the judicial system. I wonder how Pakistan can move forward without a good justice system. If we understand Islam, than I think Justice is one of the most important things.

If MMA talks about an Islamic justice system, than why do people get scared. What has gone wrong with our rationalism and faith???

Actually Musharrraf should according the Constitution make Shariah the supreme law of the entire country. Maybe it all depends on Imaan!

[Mr_Fraudia]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
If MMA talks about an Islamic justice system, than why do people get scared. What has gone wrong with our rationalism and faith???!
[/QUOTE]

Its not islamic judicial system thatscares them, but its the MMA types that scare people. Who would want to live in a totalitarian state which they envision.

[Zakk]

The Shariah law: Fact and Fiction

Discussion regarding the Shariah law has been quite heated recently. This article sheds some light on some misconceptions behind the law.

Shariah in Frontier Province
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/
Rahimullah Yusufzai

Writers and analysts sitting far away from the NWFP are having fun while writing about our province after the adoption of Shariat Act by the provincial assembly. But in their enthusiasm, some of them are writing half-truths and spreading lies.

It is true that the Shariat Act has generated controversy and prompted a number of writers to express their opinion on the subject. Cartoonists too are having a field day by visualising how life would be in an NWFP under Shariah. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion while writing on the issue. But articles and opinions are devalued if there are factual errors. Besides, such lapses lead the analysts to the wrong conclusions.

Take for example an article by a distinguished writer in the editorial pages of a contemporary English daily from Karachi on June 7. He wrote that music and films have already been banned in the NWFP, along with cable TV. Now this isn’t true because cinemas are still showing movies, video and audio shops continue to sell music cassettes, and cable television is available in growing number of cities and homes in the province. The so-called anti-obscenity campaign of the government did target some cinemas, video shops and cable companies and the police overdid its job in certain cases but no ban has been imposed on the different forms of entertainment and none is envisaged, at least for the time-being.

The same writer is also worried that the MMA would follow in the footsteps of the Taliban and lock-up women at home and flog those who refuse to wear the burqa, deprive the minorities of their rights, and convert schools into madrassas. Perhaps, he isn’t convinced by the frequent assurances by MMA leaders and ministers that they won’t implement Shariah by force. Instead, they are saying, and there is no reason not to believe them, that efforts would be made to reform the society and persuade the people to accept Shariah.

Other writers and publications have also gone overboard while commenting on the Shariat Act. Without checking their facts, some of the analysts wrote that the MMA-led NWFP government would force men to grow beards and women to cover their faces. Sections of the print media at home and abroad claimed girls 12 years old and above would have to wear the head-to-toe veil and women would not be allowed to leave home unless accompanied by a husband or some male relative. It was also reported that educational institutions having co-education would be shut down. The Taliban in Afghanistan had adopted those measures and writers and analysts take it for granted that the MMA would do exactly the same. Little do they realise that unlike the Taliban the MMA has come into power through the force of the ballot and its elected representatives won’t enforce unpopular laws and edicts. For their re-election, they would need electoral support and that cannot be guaranteed if voters are forced to accept an abrupt change in their life-style. Someone also wrote that vigilante groups would enter homes to check whether inmates were drinking alcohol and indulging in merrymaking. This prompted one writer to warn that he would welcome any such intruder in his home with a gun.

The above mentioned edicts were faithfully reported and then commented upon by certain local and foreign publications. None of these edicts have been proposed in the Shariat Act or enforced in the Frontier. But none of the writers and analysts who criticised the Shariat Act on the basis of such false information bothered to check their facts. Never mind if presentation of falsehoods as facts destroyed the credibility of the writers and amused the reading public in the NWFP.

By no stretch of imagination can one claim that the Shariat Act is a perfect law or that it would serve as the panacea of all our ills as the MMA leadership is claiming. Rather, some of the MMA leaders are raising expectations of the people by maintaining that the passage of the Shariat Act would enable the NWFP to overcome corruption, unemployment and illiteracy. No government, not even the MMA that has made Shariah the supreme law of the province, can root out corruption or solve the problems of unemployment and illiteracy. It would do the MMA lot of good if its leaders stopped leading the people of the province up the garden path. Not much would change even after enforcing Shariah because the MMA government doesn’t have the roadmap, powers and resources to effect improvements in the lives of the people.

The proposed Hasba Act is even more controversial. The delay in presenting it in the NWFP Assembly is reportedly due to MMA fears that it would generate lot of controversy and attract wider criticism compared to the Shariat Act. Already, critics are arguing that the Hasba Force, which would spearhead the campaign to promote virtue and prevent vice, would be a largely unaccountable and parallel religious police with excessive powers. Members of the Hasba Force in their zeal would invariably transgress their powers and invite the wrath of groups and individuals who are targeted. Instead of creating a new force, the government could have used the existing law-enforcing agencies and forces to do the needful. Besides, voluntary groups such as the Tablighi Jamaat is doing more than any other government force to make us better Muslims. The Tablighis would never allow themselves to be drafted in the Hasba Force but its success could serve as a model for any government attempting to reform the morals of the society.

As is evident from the discussion above on the Shariat and Hasba acts, there are loopholes that ought to be criticised. An informed debate on these issues would have helped the MMA government to overcome shortcomings before introducing the two bills in the provincial assembly. It wasn’t done and the MMA would regret such lapses in future. Already, the NWFP government is facing criticism for reproducing the Shariat Act that the Nawaz Sharif government had piloted through the parliament in June 1991. It has been alleged that MMA’s Shariat Act is a literal Urdu translation of the then prime minister Nawaz Sharif’s Enforcement of the Shariat Act.

This in itself is a serious allegation and should provide writers and analysts with an opportunity to beat the MMA with. The MMA ought to defend itself against the allegation because it should have done its homework while promising Shariah as its election promise. The Jamaat-i-Islami, JUI and JUP, the three main components of the MMA, are very old Islamic parties and one expected them to have drawn up a programme of Islamisation all these years. In fact, there was an impression that the Jamaat-i-Islami with its wealth of expertise in all walks of life would have no problem in reforming and Islamising the system of governance, economy and judiciary as soon as it came into power. One would also have to question the role and capability of the 21-member Shariah commission that spent more than two months after it was constituted by the MMA government in the NWFP to recommend the Shariah roadmap.

Still the disagreements on the Shariat and Hasba acts or the controversy thus generated should in no way give license to learned men and women to propagate half-truths. Opposing the Shariat Act is one thing but presenting wrong information to argue one’s case cannot be condoned. Some of us look at things in black and white and are unwilling to see the positive side of things if it doesn’t suit our own political philosophy or personal interest. The Shariat Act that won unanimous approval of the 124-member NWFP Assembly is subject to criticism and is, therefore, a controversial piece of legislation. But those who question the role of Islam in Pakistan would do well to heed the opinion of the Pakistani people. The 2003 Global Attitudes Survey by the Washington-based Pew Research Centre for the People and the Press found out that three-quarters Pakistanis want Islam to play a very large role in the political life of the country. Just 35 per cent thought Islam currently played a large role in Pakistanís political life. This was the highest rate of 14 Muslim states that were included in the survey. The same study found out that only a third of Pakistanis completely agree that religion is a matter of personal faith and should be kept separate from government policy. This should serve as an eye-opener for all those who think Islam shouldn’t dictate government policies. One only has to go out on the streets and into our villages to grasp this reality.

The writer is an executive editor of The News

[email protected]

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: The Shariah law: Fact and Fiction

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
The 2003 Global Attitudes Survey by the Washington-based Pew Research Centre for the People and the Press found out that three-quarters Pakistanis want Islam to play a very large role in the political life of the country.

Just 35 per cent thought Islam currently played a large role in Pakistanís political life. This was the highest rate of 14 Muslim states that were included in the survey.

The same study found out that only a third of Pakistanis completely agree that religion is a matter of personal faith and should be kept separate from government policy.

This should serve as an eye-opener for all those who think Islam shouldn't dictate government policies. One only has to go out on the streets and into our villages to grasp this reality.

[/QUOTE]

What is eye opening is that the discrepency is similar to the level of literacy in the country :) and close to urban-rural divide.

Ya think that plays a part? ;)

[Zakk]

Interesting point Fraudia but, you have to remember the bulk of the JI's support till the mid 80's was from Urban Karachi and urban Punjab. Even now the MMA primarily won in sindh and Punjab from urban areas. The vote in the Pashtun belt of Sarhad and Baluchistan was a reaction vote to the American attack on the Taliban and as the MMA was the only group to oppose the policy change so they won the votes.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Zakk

the dynamics of 80's were quite interesting because of the other options or lack thereof. they do well in urban voting, but what you did not factor in is what parts of the cities. All urbanites in pakistan are not educated, soemthing which will be very clear if you go to ranchorr lines and bhains colony.

In rural sindh they will not do well due to the vadera system which has its own folks, palejo, jatoi, bhutto or their cronies types who get the rural vote one way or the other.

As you start looking at urban areas where people are more educated and aware, the base of support for MMA decreases, of cvourse there are exceptions everywhere..but they are exceptions

[Zakk]

Fraudia: That doesn't apply to Karachi in the 70's the JI and JUP swept the entire city. In fact it was the PPP that tended to win votes in the groups you mentioned (that is the lower income and Middle to lower income families).

[Mr_Fraudia]

zakk that was 70's, this is a new millenium :) with each post you move back a decade, soon we will be in the 1940's at this pace :D

The dynamics were very diff in 70's compared to Y2K+ with PPP being seen by many as having ultra nationalistic sindhi tendencies. The roti kapra aur makaan appealed to the lower echelons of the society and the others went for JI and JUI as an alternative.

The tone and personality of both parties has changed considerably since then. I know very religious life long JI supporters who have stopped voting for them due to JI's political lameness.

[Zakk]

LOL Fraudia, I was trying to disprove your point when you said the Shariah opinion survey followed urban-rural lines (basically only people who are easily swayed are pro Shariah), my point was it wasn't true, the MMA, campaigned on a populist basis and campaigning on issues over personality. Whether I agree with what they stand for or not (and just to clarify I don't agree), they at least stand for something in comparison to the personality obsessed other parties. Even the JI to this day remains internally far more democratic then any of the other main stream parties. Their style of politics in Universities pretty was well known throughout Pakistan( the word basmash comes to mind;) ), but the same applies to the student wings of most political parties at one time or the other. The PPP in the 70's was no better, the PML(N) in Punjab Uni was the same as well.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Originally posted by Zakk: *
**LOL Fraudia, I was trying to disprove your point when you said the Shariah opinion survey followed urban-rural lines (basically only people who are easily swayed are pro Shariah), *

but you are trying to disprove it by bringing up what happened in the past, vs what is happening now. when I made that statement it was by keeping the perspectives of current times in mind, not those in the 70's or 80's.

*my point was it wasn't true, the MMA, campaigned on a populist basis and campaigning on issues over personality. Whether I agree with what they stand for or not (and just to clarify I don't agree), they at least stand for something in comparison to the personality obsessed other parties. *

fazloo, qazi saab and noorani etc have been the godfathers of their parties for ages. the supporters of the party chant their names..especially in qazi's case. They "may" be a little less personality obsessed than PPP (or is it PPPP) now, but personality obsessions and struggle for power among those personalities caused the creation of the umpteen factions within JI and JUI, as i said..referto the parties which were trying to run for elections and count how many JI and JUI splinter factions are there alif group bay group. Now that they have united they should refer to themselves as the "chay" group :)

** Their style of politics in Universities pretty was well known throughout Pakistan( the word basmash comes to mind;) ), but the same applies to the student wings of most political parties at one time or the other. The PPP in the 70's was no better, the PML(N) in Punjab Uni was the same as well. **

Yeas but badmaashi in the name of religion is a pretty sad sight, wouldn't you agree? The same ghundas did badmaashi in the name of religion on campuses, and now the same ghundas are doign badmaashi on a national scale.

[Zakk]

Fraudia: I was referring to the historical link, which has remained. Even now the MMA's compenents in other Provinces has won votes and seats from specifically urban areas in Punjab and Sindh. I would imagine socio-economically the group which votes right wing or centre right in Pakistan tends to be better off then the average voter.