Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Bunkerbuster...u r amusing at times..(at best)....reminds me of that Bollybuster chap...
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
PRNR, BB may be anything else, but amusing he is not. Poor guy doesn't have a single amusing bone in his body.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Mou pay ram ram bagal mein churi-Baniyas
Bunky, u guys harp on gujarat riots. I want to know whats happening in Pakistan. A shia cleric is killed and then people riot. Just one person is killed and u riot. We are of the same stock. Then just imagine that a hindu goes and bombs a few trians in pakistan do u think that any of the hindus will be left alive in Pakistan afterwards. Its resiliance of the hindus that allows the muslims to live a life of dignity in India. If it is any other country you would have got the consequences. :)
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Three sets of bombings have hit India in the past 10 months — near-simultaneous explosions at times and places where crowds are thickest.
They’ve been predictably deadly, with 62 killed in the capital, New Delhi; 20 in the holy city of Varanasi; and 182 in last week’s Bombay train bombings.
Experts and Indian officials say the pattern bears the mark of Islamic militant groups who have fought for 17 years from bases in mostly Muslim Pakistan to wrest away part of divided Kashmir, a predominantly Islamic Himalayan territory, from Hindu-majority India.
It also may reflect a troubling new reality: the crystallization of these groups into regional networks inspired — some say aided — by al-Qaida, in an attempt to export jihad across South Asia.
“What we have seen in the past few years is the morphing of these groups from a very localized and aggressive focus on the Kashmir issue to a more internationalist ideology,” said Rollie Lal of the U.S. think tank Rand Corp.
By mentioning regional conflicts like Kashmir in messages to supporters, Osama bin Laden “connects their causes into something that is much larger, and gives them a feeling that there is a greater significance to their struggle,” Lal said. “So where once you saw mainly attacks on the Indian military in Kashmir, what you see now are these attacks in New Delhi and Bombay.”
Kashmir was split between India and Pakistan after the subcontinent’s bloody partition following independence from India in 1947. The two nuclear-armed neighbors have since fought two wars over the scenic, mountainous land.
**
The dozens of Islamic militant groups fighting in India’s part of Kashmir are widely believed to get at least some training and funds from Pakistan. But Islamabad insists it only offers the rebels diplomatic and moral support.
Most of the groups focus on Kashmir, but a one-time militant said the struggle was broader for some.
“Even 12, 14 years ago, there were people talking about the need to attack big Indian cities, to kill Hindus,” said Mohammed, who spent the early 1990s traversing Kashmir’s mountain passes and hiding in its forests and villages, still used as militant havens.
“Kashmir is part of a larger struggle to liberate all Muslims,” said Mohammed, 31. He asked that his last name not be used for fear of angering authorities in Indian Kashmir, where he has lived since his release from jail a few years ago.
**
Authorities investigating the Bombay bombings — as well as the October blasts in New Delhi and the March explosions in Varanasi — have yet to publicly say with any certainty which groups they blame.
However, India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said Friday the Bombay bombings were “instigated, inspired and supported by elements across the border” — a clear reference to Pakistan and militants based there.
The lack of clear culprits at this stage may be a function of the militant groups’ amorphous nature.
“We’re looking more for a set of people than any one named group. There are so many of them, but they all have the same source,” an Indian intelligence official said on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of his work.
That source, he and others insist, is Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, a Pakistani-dominated Muslim group.
Lashkar, which has denied any role in the attacks, started out fighting in Kashmir but quickly spread through Pakistan, opening everything from orphanages to militant training camps.
Banned by Pakistan in 2001, its leaders reportedly still live openly. Experts say its ambitions have grown, along with those of other militant groups.
Lashkar is also thought to have al-Qaida ties, but “it’s very had to say if they are or they aren’t directly linked,” said Samina Ahmed, South Asia project director for the Brussels-based International Crisis Group research institute.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
To be honest with you we do not harp on Gujrat riots only.We also are enraged when we hear about sikh massacre in 1985, when a christian graveyard was raided with bulldozersin 2000 and when shudras and widows are burned alive to to death.All those happened to non muslims.Such incidents will cause anyone to feel sympathetic.Now I am not saying all of India does it, just a few brahmindian hands which are responsible for this, holding all the indian media and people at ransom.
People who went on a riot are uneducated *******s looking for trouble.They were drived to do this by the so called "muslim clerics".I ask these muslim clerics does it tell you in islam to burn buldings and property and kill innocent people when you are mourning the death of a religious person?NO, then why do they do this.Lack of education is always the enemy in South Asia.
It is definately NOT the resilience of hindus that is letting muslims stay in india, learn some history.Remember India for centuries was ruled by moughul muslims and persian muslims.Hindu were given only authority of a tiny state as a tiny maharaja or a raja compared to a king or emperor muslim, that too was conditional.Muslim gave India more identity than hindus did.Look for example the taj mahal and the red fort how magnificent, what did u hindus do?make temples and destroy babri mosque!The same buildings muslim built you guys are EARNING money from them tourists.
Not only that but indian cuisine is also something gifted to india by mouhul muslims, NOT by hindus again.Since hindus are vegetarian they could not have come up with a whole cuisine...instead muslims gave india a cuisine that tandoori chicken and qorma and what not.
Hindus like you should be thankful to indian muslim.They were the REAL oweners of India not YOU hindus!If you mess up up their land like you are doing today then very soon indian muslims will have to take india away from you just like they had it in moughul times.India has been given to hindus on rent and if hindus cannot run it then give it back to muslims!
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Nicols John do not get over excited over a mere article.Like I have told you before and like the whole world knows it Pakistan is frontline fighter and ally of USA in war on terrorism.In the past 5 years we have eliminated 300 terrorists some of them high targets.London and Washington have applauded our effort.Why do you indian not appreciate something we have actually done, why is clock stuck on blaming Pakistan everytime the word terrorit comes to mind.
Let me tell you further than thx to Mush organisations like JeM and LeT have been BANNED from Pakistan.I do not know if HinduTimes reported it but CNN, BBC and PTV did.
India is getting lucky under the umbrella of war on terrorism and calling the FREEDOM FIGHTERS of Kashmir as TERRORISTS.No terrorist organisation in he world has UN resolution in favor of it like Kashmir does!Manmohan Singh keeps repeating the same line "Pakistan, pakistan-funded, pakistan is behind this"......dude shut the hell up.You were once born in Pakistan and you do not even have more than8 million sikh people in the world.He is a an alcohol addit so I would not listen to him anyway.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
People who went on a riot are uneducated *******s looking for trouble.They were drived to do this by the so called "muslim clerics".I ask these muslim clerics does it tell you in islam to burn buldings and property and kill innocent people when you are mourning the death of a religious person?NO, then why do they do this.Lack of education is always the enemy in South Asia.
It is definately NOT the resilience of hindus that is letting muslims stay in india, learn some history.Remember India for centuries was ruled by moughul muslims and persian muslims.Hindu were given only authority of a tiny state as a tiny maharaja or a raja compared to a king or emperor muslim, that too was conditional.Muslim gave India more identity than hindus did.Look for example the taj mahal and the red fort how magnificent, what did u hindus do?make temples and destroy babri mosque!The same buildings muslim built you guys are EARNING money from them tourists.
Not only that but indian cuisine is also something gifted to india by mouhul muslims, NOT by hindus again.Since hindus are vegetarian they could not have come up with a whole cuisine...instead muslims gave india a cuisine that tandoori chicken and qorma and what not.
Hindus like you should be thankful to indian muslim.They were the REAL oweners of India not YOU hindus!If you mess up up their land like you are doing today then very soon indian muslims will have to take india away from you just like they had it in moughul times.India has been given to hindus on rent and if hindus cannot run it then give it back to muslims!
How far did mughals had their authority my dear. half of it is lost to pakistan anyway. Bunky, people like you need to have a reality check. Stop living in 16th century and come to the present day. U know what , whatever u said is true and most of the them are fodder for the Hindu fanatics to rip up passion against muslims and butcher them. Because, to them, now Hindus have the power and they can terminate all muslims and anyway muslims are considered namak haram, other wise they wouldnt have wanted pakistan.
Look sweet heart u lost the stake in Indian muslims the day pakistan was created.
Its amazing to see how u guys still dream of khaliphat and mughal dynasty. Its indeed resiliance of Hindus that is allowing muslims to still stay put in India. :)
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
What a load of BS.
And what sardas(SIKHS) did wrong??
Why they were burnt alive in 1984??
Admit that
As a society indian hindus stinks.
SLAVE MINDED PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ACT WHEN THY ARE GIVEN POWER.
They don't know how to be part of any society but india.
holy macroo you people go kill people when you leader dies??? why??????
You got throw stones and burn shops when your leader die???
I mean your masses are as sick as it gets yet you want people to respect you????????
MAY YOU NEED TO DO A REALITY CHECK.
YOU MORONS ARE GETTING ADVANTAGE OF BEING NON MUSLIMS/ NON-COMMUNIST/SO CALLED DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.
OTHER WISE SOME WHITE COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BOMBED YOUR A@@ FOR WHAT YOU REALY ARE.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
are u from pakistan or are u living in a utopian world. Two days ago, a shia cleric gets killed and what u do , u riot.
Did the filthy indians asked you to riot dear.
Oh yes we have slave mentality its because of that we still allow for 140 million muslims to live in India. It is why we allow a sikh to become our prime minister. U know what, u talk more or less like the Hindu fanatics. U guys make good friends. Modi would be your pal. It is the same thing they say to the Hindus lets get rid of all those muslims who have occupaid our land and tred it like they own it. :). Few like you and there would be more gujarat.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
how have you acted when you were given power?..define me, what is pakistan?..
See, i will define it…
“a secular, islamic, democratic, autocratic, military, dictarorship, moderate republic of pakistan”…this is an apt definition of pakistan. This is how you guys have governed your own country since its independence. 
…and you blame us for not governing properly:clown:
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
You allowed a sikh to become a prime minister because there are sikhs living in India.India is roughly 70% hindu, 20% muslims and something sikhs.In Pakistan it is diffeten.Dominantly an islamic state unlike india which is a seculiar state.In pakistan 97% people are muslims, 2% christians and 1% are other.Among these other are two sikhs who have joined apkistan army and police.That is a great achievement for a country that is 97% muslim you know!To be honest with you like I have said before this sikh singh as a primie minister is a just a puppet.The government from inside is still controlled by big bad brahmindians.Singh would not be able to do a thing to stop another 1984 form happenin, if hindus want another 1984 theny will bring it no matter if the PM is sikh.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Sukhwinder Singh before you go on and define pakistan how about you tell me if there is a SINGLE sikh country in the world? Last time you attempted to make a country only for sikhs you guys were flattend by your own army and gandhi rocked every brick of your holiest place.You sikhs are less than 12 million in the world, just like the proportion of an ant to an elephant.Have you not any dignity remaing in you when you are SHARING a country with at least 3 other religions?
Look Pakistan may not be good in politics and all that but let me tell you there are dozens of muslim countries in the world, more than billion muslims in the world making more than any other group.Unlike you sikhs we have IDENTITY in the world but sikhs ask a european or american russian, far eatern etc on the street and they would not know what sikh is.I highly reocmmend you sikhs get a country for urselves because this is the 21st century and you will not survive in this century if you are not known to others.Most of the sikhs are cool people beter than dark ugly and skinny hindus but ones like you who are ****ting about the land which hold many of your holy places like nankana sahab.Shame on you!
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
16th century yeah?I have a very nice nice reply for you:
History repeats itself!
Indian history is etched in stone by indian muslims who today have become the victim of hindu brutality and propaganda.If you are smart, you will able to pick up my point from here:)
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
So you have admited India is secular. Good, thats the first step. Ur sensus may be flowed but still it tells the resiliance of the Indians. U should know why pakistan was created. It was created so that "Indian muslims have a home of their own and escape the tyranny of the Hindus". Now if thats the case then tell me why should Hindus tolerate the 15 or so % muslims in the country. Its again indians magnanimity that allows muslims to stay in the country. Dont u think so. !!:D.
Since u dont know any politics I am not dwelling into that. The communist are supporting this govt. I dont think they care wheather they are Brahmins or shudra. Besides the chief of Indian coalition is italian origin lady. No brahmins anyway near. :D. Countries president is a Muslim too. There is around 2% sikhs in India sweetheart, and see we have our primeminister a Sikh. Armed forces have lots of Sikhs not like your two token sikhs in pakistan police.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
History repeats itself!
Indian history is etched in stone by indian muslims who today have become the victim of hindu brutality and propaganda.If you are smart, you will able to pick up my point from here:)
Dream of khaliphat. Oh man. When will you wake up from ur dream. Even if the whole world is muslim there wont be khaliphat. Muslims will fight each other. man is inherently egoistic. :):D
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Pakistan was created not for muslim but it was created open for anyone with freedom from the british rule.It did not say only for muslims.You can read that in the constitution.15% muslim are not tolerated by hindus when you look at gujrat riots and kashmir masacre also you hindu portray muslims as terrorist and backward peoplein your movies.You are hindus trying to marry muslims so you can mix your dirty kind with us.Indian muslim are propogated to go agianst Pakistan.Their kids have to learn hindu bhaajns etc...these r ust few examples.Now tell me what has india's seculier or brahmin run governamnet done to bring narendra modi to justice?It shows you just do not want muslims around.
Country's president may be a muslim but remember like i said for manmohan singh, that president will be unable to stop another gujrat riot form happening simply becayse india is runin he back by baniya hands.
India's population is 2% sikhs so that makes a few million sikhs, in pakistan there are NO SIKHS yet we have two of them in the mainstream.That is what i am trying to focus on that a country that is 97% muslim having minority in mainstream as oppose to a country india that has a whole mixture of religions.
Basically my whole point is having sikhs at army and other places in India is not extraordinary, something common.However having a sikh in a the manistream in pakistan is something extraordinary and phenominal simply becayse no sikhs live in pakistan it is almost all muslims country.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Like I said
History repeats itself:D
At the time of caliphs muslims has the LARGEST empire streching from Spain to Yemen.So it is all good.Hay this empire was even larger than moughulk one:D...last time i checked hindus did not have an entire hindu country let alone an empire.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
Nothing is to come of mutual name calling. Sikhs have my eternal respect, as a Pakistani, as well as Hindus. Let us focus on providing a decent future and present instead of questioning history and faith. Who cares?
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
India, Pakistan: Islamabad’s Kashmiri Militant Strategy
July 20, 2006 00 34 GMT
Summary
Indications continue to trickle in that Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) may have played a role in the July 11 Mumbai transit attacks. Though Islamabad has stopped actively backing Kashmiri militant organizations such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, the government of Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf continues to allow Pakistan to be used as a base for jihadists to target India in hopes militant operations can check the rise of India as a major player on the global stage.
Analysis
Recent details from the July 11 Mumbai transit blast investigations indicate the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) likely played some role in the attacks.
Pakistan allows jihadist groups targeting India, such as the Kashmiri militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), to operate under the guise they are civil-society groups, sparing Islamabad the repercussions of openly backing militant entities. By allowing such groups to operate from Pakistan, Islamabad hopes it can check India’s rise as a global player.
The recent disclosure by Indian security forces that the explosive RDX was used in the Mumbai rail attacks indicates a link to Kashmiri militants. RDX is used by militants throughout South Asia, including LeT and other Kashmiri militant groups, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam in Sri Lanka, and Islamist militants in Bangladesh with some links to Kashmiri groups. New Delhi has broken up several LeT cells equipped with RDX and rifles planning to bomb infrastructure across India.
A group calling itself Lashkar-e-Qahar (LeQ) – thought to be pseudonym intended to provide cover for LeT – claimed responsibility for the Mumbai attacks, and warned of more. In response to the attacks, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said Pakistan was not doing enough to rein in Kashmiri militants and that “terrorist modules are instigated, inspired and supported by elements across the border.” New Delhi also postponed peace talks – unproductive so far – between India and Pakistan. These talks were of little consequence to India, as New Delhi steadfastly has said it will not make concessions to Pakistan as long as militant attacks continue.
This response is tame compared to New Delhi’s reaction to the LeT attack on India’s parliament building in December 2001. During that crisis, the Bharatiya Janata Party-led government massed troops on Pakistan’s border within weeks, and conducted skirmishes accompanied by artillery shelling into Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. Several factors account for this difference: The more level-headed Congress party now heads the government, and the 2001 raid took aim at the physical center of the Indian government. The biggest difference between the response in 2001 versus today is that India will have a hard time proving Islamabad directly controls LeT – ironically because of the 2001 crisis.
Following the dramatic escalation of tensions in late 2001, which brought the two countries to the brink of a potential nuclear exchange, the government of Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf overhauled the nature of its relationship with Kashmiri militant Islamist outfits under pressure from New Delhi and Washington. This required altering the tactical dimensions of its investment in Kashmiri militant groups. Realizing that in the post-Sept. 11 world it could no longer operate the way it used to, the Pakistani military and its intelligence apparatus moved away from direct control of these groups to a more subtle, hands-off approach.
This entailed allowing Kashmiri militant groups ostensibly to operate as social groups engaged in cultural, social, and humanitarian activities. Thus, groups like Jamaat-ud-Dawah, the successor to Markaz Dawah wa al-Irshad (MDI), was banned in Pakistan after the parliamentary attack along with its military wing, LeT. Jamaat-ud-Dawah is allowed to exist as a “nonprofit” group collecting contributions and engaging in social activities.
This means LeT and groups like it have infrastructure and funding that are difficult to trace back to Pakistani intelligence operatives. Unlike before, when the Pakistani state openly ran militant training facilities on its side of the Line of Control, Kashmiri militant groups now have a great degree of autonomy in their training operations.
In the past, the ISI played an active role in masterminding operations of these “state-owned” jihadists. But now, the ISI merely encourages attacks, leaving the operational aspects to the militants themselves. It is possible, however, that special cells within the ISI occasionally dispatch liaisons to have tea with “former” LeT operatives and “suggest” future operations.
Pakistan has a complex relationship with the Kashmiri militant phenomenon. Islamabad firmly controls some groups, such as Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. The government allows other groups with agendas diverging from its own to function. Still other groups have gone rogue, functioning without Islamabad’s permission and moving into al Qaeda’s orbit. Some of the groups in the second category have ties to transnational jihadism, which the Pakistanis know, hoping they can cooperate with al Qaeda to ensure attacks in India will continue and that Islamabad can avoid the blame.
This pattern explains why the Indians continue to say Pakistan needs to do more to curb terrorism, but acknowledge that Islamabad’s support for militants has gone down. It also explains how militants continue to stage attacks not just in Kashmir, but as far south as Mumbai.
Islamabad gave up the idea that it could secure Kashmir’s secession from India through supporting militant outfits in the aftermath of 2001. Instead, it sought to keep the Indians stuck in a quagmire in Kashmir until such a time as Islamabad can negotiate a settlement of sorts with New Delhi. The postponement of peace talks with India hurts Musharraf, who needs some sort of diplomatic breakthrough with India in order to convince his population he is accomplishing something. Instead, Musharraf has looked weak by practically begging the Indians to return to the negotiating table. Musharraf has decided his only hope to escape obsolescence is to try to stem India’s growth.
Geopolitically, the Pakistani generals fear that Pakistan’s status as a major U.S. ally is not going to last. Musharraf’s government clearly has fallen out of favor with the United States; simultaneously, Washington has chosen to ally itself with India. Slowly but surely India is becoming a more prominent geopolitical player, and its relationship with the United States will only accelerate its accumulation of power. Islamabad also sees its Balochi insurgency as the work of India’s premier intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing, through India’s five consulates in Afghanistan.
Through the ISI – and, according to some sources, Pakistani military intelligence – Islamabad will continue very discreetly to encourage the LeT and groups like it to expand their fight in India. Meanwhile, the Kashmiri militant groups most likely are increasing their contacts with al Qaeda handlers who reportedly have set up shop in Kashmir. Kashmiri militant groups like LeT almost certainly will begin cooperating with them on large attacks on India. While these attacks could target monuments and government facilities, the best way for Pakistan to hurt India would be to attack India’s international business hubs, such as Mumbai and the information technology hotspots in Bangalore and Hyderabad. By giving multinational corporations the jitters, Pakistan and the LeT can cut down on the most crucial component of India’s rise to power: foreign direct investment.
India likely can weather periodic attacks by the LeT without changing its measured policy toward Pakistan. Two things, however, could force India to escalate against Islamabad. First, the LeT (or LeQ) could get too far off of its chain and conduct a major attack significantly impacting India’s economic lifeline, generating public outcry. It is not clear yet whether or not the Mumbai attack constitutes such an incident. Second, proof of a Pakistani link to LeT would cause India to escalate. Whether or not such evidence will come to light out of Mumbai also remains to be seen, but it is not likely since Pakistan’s entire strategy depends on plausible deniability – meaning Islamabad probably took care to cover its tracks.
It thus appears the Pakistani military continues to have its feet in both the Kashmiri and Taliban jihadist camps. Given these assets, Pakistan has the tools at its disposal to make sure India remains tied down by internal conflicts while Islamabad scrambles to catch up with its South Asian rival.
Re: Not blaming Pakistan anymore?
might be mumbai bombings were pay back time for indians by ISI...afterall,indians r using their all energies in destruction of balochistan and wazirstan...........
pakistanis sent the message to indians tht if u dont stop ur terrorism from afghanistan,we will kick ur butt in each and every indian city....thts the way secret agencies work...