Actually it does happen you know, I’ve seen people bow down to Sufi Sheikhs and kiss their hands and stuff…
Aap bhi Peer Sahib honay ka dawa kertay hei(n)… Murshid Saei(n) haath deejiyey, choom lou(n) shed iss naik amaal ke sadqey mere gunaahou(n) ki maghfirat ho jaey, loll… 
rubbing thumbs over eyelids
Yaar unquote me, I wrote rosemary (a plant) when I meant to write rosary (tasbeeh)… loll 
about the kissing thing.. how many of those deriding kissing the tasbeeh would deride kissing the Quran? how many of you just fling it away when you're done reading it?
if you look at it, that too is merely words on bound paper, just as a rosary is a string of beads in one context, your connection to God in another.
be a little more tolerant of how people express reverence for Allah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
about the kissing thing.. how many of those deriding kissing the tasbeeh would deride kissing the Quran? how many of you just fling it away when you're done reading it?
if you look at it, that too is merely words on bound paper, just as a rosary is a string of beads in one context, your connection to God in another.
be a little more tolerant of how people express reverence for Allah.
[/QUOTE]
The Koran was not sent down so that we can hope for some sort of blessing merely from kissing it or wrapping it in fine green silk, or holding it over the brides head, using it as a decoration piece etc. That’s not the purpose of the Koran.
The Koran is a precious gift from Allah, it together with the Prophetic Example and Words which compliment it tells us the truth about God, it explains how to cope with problems, how to find true happiness, how to seek the pleasure of God, it’s the criterion between right and wrong, it teaches us how to live a good and a morally right life.
All these things are silly innovations; I like my religion to be straightforward and simple like it was meant to be not full of gay little rituals.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
The Koran was not sent down so that we can hope for some sort of blessing merely from kissing it or wrapping it in fine green silk, or holding it over the brides head, using it as a decoration piece etc. That’s not the purpose of the Koran.
The Koran is a precious gift from Allah, it together with the Prophetic Example and Words which compliment it tells us the truth about God, it explains how to cope with problems, how to find true happiness, how to seek the pleasure of God, it’s the criterion between right and wrong, it teaches us how to live a good and a morally right life.
[/QUOTE]
Non sequitur. Unless you're saying its necessarily used for either the former or the latter, which is patently untrue.
You shirk my question. do you fling your copy of the Quran about like other books when you're done deriving guidance from it? Is it okay, to you, if someone puts it under his feet? Yes?
[QUOTE]
All these things are silly innovations; I like my religion to be straightforward and simple like it was meant to be not full of gay little rituals.
[/QUOTE]
Keep your religion as you like it. Dont assume that what you practice is the one true faith as it was meant to be. To me, thats just a little too arrogant and presumptuous.
Its how the message spreads.
I find this topic very ignorant and outrageous.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CocoNut: *
Its how the message spreads.
I find this topic very ignorant and outrageous.
[/QUOTE]
There are many ways of conveying the message, depicting someone praying wrongly is not one of them...Tomorrow if they show someone naked praying like a Muslim, will you still say, 'Oh, that's how the message spreads...'
The filmmakers should at least consult someone before playing with someone's worship and it's ignorance on their part...We are just commenting on how they shouldn't be doing things...
The Hindus are having a hard time digesting the fact that Salman Khan is playing Ram in one of the movies and have raised a hue and cry over it because he is a Muslim...And us being Muslims we can't even object to their misportraying our worship...I find this to be ignorant...
o naheen yaaar I have never done a daawa of being a Peer Sahib, lag kehtay hain toh hum kya karain 
I honmestly did nto choose this title, it was given by azkar Chaudhry
talk about using an extreme example. 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
There are many ways of conveying the message, depicting someone praying wrongly is not one of them...Tomorrow if they show someone naked praying like a Muslim, will you still say, 'Oh, that's how the message spreads...'
The filmmakers should at least consult someone before playing with someone's worship and it's ignorance on their part...We are just commenting on how they shouldn't be doing things...
The Hindus are having a hard time digesting the fact that Salman Khan is playing Ram in one of the movies and have raised a hue and cry over it because he is a Muslim...And us being Muslims we can't even object to their misportraying our worship...I find this to be ignorant...
[/QUOTE]
So here we go down the road of right and wrong of praying eh. People pray many ways. Who are you again to interfere in their prayers? Not everyone follows the traditional sense of prayer. Heck, some just talk to Allah instead of making a few movements. In more instances than one the Prophets have been corrected by Divinity for giving others instructions on how to pray and how not to.
Your example is absolutely horrendous and off topic, reminds me of the pre-islamic era in Mecca. I suggest you try again.
The film makers, hmm... go through the credits and see how many 'muslim' names pop up.
How you comment seems to come off more of a dictation defining black and white, right or wrong.
The hindus maybe having a hard time. It doesn't mean we should constipate as well.
I don't know why... but I find this thread hilarious. What a point! :)
There are prescribed ways to pray and you don’t deter from the prescribed ways…Very black and white…
You think its okay for me to go, ‘Oh, I love Allah so much, today I will pray on my head’…You might think it right, not me…For me the right way is prescribed in clear black and white…
No one in this thread is abusing, accusing or insulting anyone, LUC had something on his mind and he shared it with us and all we are doing is commenting on it…Isn’t that the purpose of this board?
It’s not as if Arjun Rampal has done a great misdeed against our deen or Morgan Freeman (an actor which I like a lot BTW) was deliberately trying to pray falsely to discredit Islam…No…
And where does it say ‘talking’ to Allah :swt: is a form of prayer? Would the fact that I say to Allah :swt: ‘Man, my day was terrible, I had a headache, I took some Advil, but now I am fine’ be considered a prayer?
Would that form of ‘prayer’ be on equal footing with someone who gets up in winter, performs wudu and goes to the Masjid everyday to pray?
Who knows, in the eyes of Allah :swt: it might be or it might be not…But since it’s nowhere mentioned that ‘talking’ is a form of worship, I would look at highly dubiously and even issue a Fatwa on it being a Bid’aa…
interisting keeping in mind babri and other mosque.........v keep on watching indian movies......and then comment on its indency etc......it is we who make thier movies and ndecent songs hit......
Lajawab bhai, you are defending LUC unnecessarily. First of all, his complaint is that a Hindu is shown praying Namaz, his complaint is not HOW he is doing it. Also, his other complaint it that he didn't do wudu.... that is so hilarious. A "kattar kafir" (in his words) can do wudu and pray while he is still "kattar kafir", just for a scene? Think about it. His complaints don't have any feet at all.
Secondly, I don't watch and haven't watched the movie so don't know what "anti-wudu" deed he had done before being shown as "praying".... is a movie supposed to show you each and every part that you "WANT" to see? is this movie a "training" movie on "how to pray"?
i really do not understand you problem. i am a born hindu and i have prayed in many mosques/ i do not know how namaz is performed/
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
Non sequitur. Unless you're saying its necessarily used for either the former or the latter, which is patently untrue.
You shirk my question. do you fling your copy of the Quran about like other books when you're done deriving guidance from it? Is it okay, to you, if someone puts it under his feet? Yes?
Keep your religion as you like it. Dont assume that what you practice is the one true faith as it was meant to be. To me, thats just a little too arrogant and presumptuous.
[/QUOTE]
God forbid I never said we shouldn’t respect the Koran; it is the Speech of Allah and is therefore sacred.
But respect should be shown the way the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) showed respect to the Koran.
Keep it in a clean place, only touch it with clean hands, never recite or touch it when in a state of post sexual or menstrual impurity etc.
But kissing it is an innovation; it has no evidence in any of the authentic Islamic sources.
gotta agree with Coco :k:
lajawab: I swear man, you are so confused…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
God forbid I never said we shouldn’t respect the Koran; it is the Speech of Allah and is therefore sacred.
But respect should be shown the way the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) showed respect to the Koran.
Keep it in a clean place, only touch it with clean hands, never recite or touch it when in a state of post sexual or menstrual impurity etc.
But kissing it is an innovation; it has no evidence in any of the authentic Islamic sources.
[/QUOTE]
im going on a limb here, but permit me to conjecture that there might not be express injunctions on flinging the Quran to the earth. Correct me if I'm wrong, and quote me a reference from either the Quran or the Hadith if that is the case.
assuming that there isnt, and there is only the broad guideline that we respect the Quran, what reason do you have for supposing that kissing it is not as much a form of respect/reverence as capitalising letters when referring to it?
taking the argument further, if you agree that there can be different ways of showing respect to the Quran, and this respect is warranted by it being the "Speech of Allah", does not this mean that objects, such as printed paper can be granted special status worthy of respect because of association with Divinity, even if that association is granted through a printing press and not God's own angels?
and just like that, if you're kissing the tasbeeh out of it being your connection to Allah, because every bead caused you to say his name just as every word in the Quran caused to say what Allah said, there is nothing so ridiculous about it.
Oh, pray tell how many prescribed ways are there then the rest shall be shunned and sent to hell as per your fatwa. You know, people do pray on their death bed, on horses, in cars, boats, in time of a calamity, ANYWHERE. There is no limitation to prayer. Prayer exceeds the boundaries which you have created and it is NOT only 5 times a day.
No one is saying to pray on your head. You are going off on all tangents from dancing naked to standing upside down. Wicked imagination but try again.
Talking to Allah is considered a prayer, a form of Dhikr. We can’t simply recite surah’s and praise Him, it doesn’t end there.
That ‘prayer’ could be an equal in comparison to someone who wakes up in winter, performs wudu and goes to the Masjid. I did not discredit the daily 5 time prayer but neither do I discredit the prayer in the form of talking to Allah.
If you consider it bid’aa, then I guess Moses was a lunatic talking to only fire.
When I made that one point about spreading the word, this is one way. Surely, it may not be right but then those who have been exposed can question a muslim of what is right or wrong.
A friend of mine came to me after watching Malcom X, even though some forms of the prayer were not as how the traditional sense is I explained part of my religion to him. Thats how he got exposed to Islam. Through media.
For me, there are certain prescibed ways of worship. Why innovate when you can resuscitate? Resuscitate the true and only ways which are prescribed?
**
So, you believe that the Sahaba-e-Karam talked to Allah :saw:? They were the first part…
There is an Ayah in the Quran (I can;t remember which one right now), in which Allah :swt: states that some people introduced new things into their faith thinking it will bring them closer to Allah :swt:, but in reality it took them out of their faith…(If I find it, I’ll post it)…
**
**
What I am simply stating, why bring your own thoughts into matters of religion…You tell someone something from your own imagination and that person does become Muslim, but does what you told him to do, you will be responsible for having brought in an innovation…A Bidah…Are you willing to take that risk? No matter how pure, pious and beautiful your intentions are?
OK. How about a realistic situation. I come from a family which practiced, and still does practice Shirk. I used to do it. Go to Mazaars and make dua, and manats and in my heart of hearts, I knew that what I was doing was part of Islam and it was good. My heart felt good. Until I realized what a horrible breach of boundary I was doing. But I realized it AFTER I was told about its effects on my Deen and I read into it. I was doing Shirk, an unforgivable act.
I make dua for my Imam who brought me out of it by explaining this innovation which is neither in the Quran or the Sunnah but I was doing it because it felt right and made me closer to Allah :swt:.
I wish to be the person to you what my Imam was to me. My method of telling you may have been stupid, but I am an idiot, so forgive me if I offended you somehow. It wasn’t my intention.
I have never heard about this. If you have, perhaps you can enlighten me. What else should one do?
Do you have proof of what you are saying? That by talking to Allah :swt: one can reach a status equalling that of a worshipper? Can you provide me some proof from the Quran or Hadith or Sunnah of the Holy Prophet :saw: that what you are saying is true?
Hazrat Musa :ahem: (Alayhisalam), was the only person in the history of the world to ‘talk’ with Allah :swt:…He was called Kaleemullah…
I never argued with you about this point…And you are right…It can be…There’s no publicity like bad publicity…Before 9/11 25,000 people a year were reverting to Islam every year in America…After 9/11 and the whole Islamophobia which started thereafter, 100,000 people a year started reverting…
Good for him…Allah :swt: guides people through the strangest means, and some won;t be guided even after being shown all the truth…
Look Coco, I am not putting a gun to your head to tell you that you have to agree with me and do what I say…A Fatwa is the same thing, a verbal decree…All I can do is tell you what is wrong about something which you are doing and it is entirely up to you to follow it or not…If you do and I have told you what is right according to the Quran or Sunnah and you follow it, I get Thawab, if not, I lose nothing…Of course being ignorant as I am, I may not be doing a great job of conveying to you what I believe, but that is my shortcoming, not what I am trying to say…
When I look at you and Nescio, I see myself about 8 years ago…When I was deep into Sufi stuff and doing this and that thinking whatever I was thinking and doing was great…Forget the prescribed stuff, I used to imagine stuff up and think to myself, (nauzubillah) why didn’t Allah :swt: think of that or why didn’t He do this or why did He have to do that? All the time thinking I would be forgiven for my transgressions…I used to despise the Mullahs and Wahabbis for making Islam so bland, without music, no images, no this no that…
Problem is, we don’t realize that by introducing stuff into Islam we make it mainstream and bland, like any other religion…The true color of Islam lies in its purity of truth and its power to be aloof from any man made innovations and ideas…We don’t realize that by introducing our logic and thinking into its teachings, we are watering it down…
You choose whatever you see best to do, and I apologize if I offended you in any way…Like I really care… j/k