Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Re: Non Muslim ‘Honour Killing!’

Actually it happens among Africans as well from what my friends have told me. But its normally based on tribal linkages instead of culture or religion. But you are killed because you disavowed the family/tribes honor.

Honestly I love wikipedia. It just happens to agree with my point of view 99.99% of the time. Here is the part on Latin America:

Link: Honor killing - Wikipedia

Seriously with all this information out there, there is no reason for such ignorant views.

Re: Non Muslim ‘Honour Killing!’

There is no such thing as non-mulsim honor killings its a big lie.

Indian man unrepentant after beheading daughter - Yahoo! News

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Hmmm the irony.

"Honour" and "killing" in the same term.

I think everyone agrees that not killing is more honourable than killing, even for men who live by the sword, to beat someone without killing them is the ultimate ideal.

So perhaps the very term should be rejected and reffered simply as un-lawfull killing. The whole label is as unnessacary and unhelpfull as the act itself.

As for the act I no longer believe it has anything to do with Honour, Creed or Culture... much more simple than that I believe it boils down to that most contemptable side of human spirit, the thing we call "ego". Ego killing is a far more apprioprate term when you consider it in detail.

Anyway thats my sum of it.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

I know many who work in mental hospitals to know about what goes on there, and I can assure you that when a non muslim commits such barbaric acts that their religious or cultural beliefs are not dragged into the equation as much as muslims. If you disagree then fine but i am entitled to my opinion. And believe me when muslim women are attacked & killed by men they are considered honour killings even if their families arent involved.

Is that too difficult for you to grasp?

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

What I meant was that when a non muslim does something out of the ordinary as in the above article, they are given numerous excuses for their actions and defences, but almost never are their religious, cultural or social beliefs questioned or mocked as with muslims.

And sorry mr/miss genius but your rubbish definition is from wiki which isnt even a reputable site and just because something is defined one way, it doesnt mean that it is applied the exact same way by the media or public, understand!?

And I have never rejected the fact that honour killings do not happen in 'our cultures', so i suggest you stop putting words into others mouths!

No doubt you are some troll who has taken offence to my post.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

The problem is that not many non-muslims use religion to justify their violent actions.
Exceptions are not examples please remember.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Caste killings are not exemptions

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Like the Breivik case. He keeps saying that he is not insane and that he takes full responsibility for what he did and that he would do it again. Still they keep saying that he might have this disorder or that.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

The "deleted" in question quote academics (some of whom are Muslim) and the UN to explain the social anthropology behind honor killings. When many cases aren't registered let alone investigated, official testimony from honor killers is hard to come by. But to answer your question, the Canadian Shafia family murders is one example.

In wiretapped remarks, Mr. Mohammad Shafia on why he killed his daughters :

"They betrayed humankind; they betrayed Islam; they betrayed our religion and creed; they betrayed our tradition; they betrayed everything."

"Is that what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?"

"I'm happy and my conscience is clear. They haven't done good and God punished them."

Source : Global Mail and CBC News

If someone cites religion for their actions, does that indict Islam? Terrorism is justified the same way, and so on. But it's not a mental leap to suggest how someone may validate killing a fornicator to preserve honor/the moral fabric of society when their religion prescribes flogging for the same. Same with the concept of "disciplining" women/wives. My comment that people use religion to garner support for this practice isn't a personal opinion, it was an observation the ICAHK link elaborates on :

"Religion remains an important part in many people’s lives, not least in those societies for ‘honour’ based violence. A majority (but by no means all) of current known cases arise in Muslim cultures or sub-cultures, leading some to conclude that there must be textual backing for the practice, and that therefore an ‘honour’ killing is a religiously mandated murder. Although some ‘honour’ killers do justify their crimes by their religion, many others act in the name of tribal, caste, class, nationalist or other identities. An ‘honour’ killing, seen as an act of vigilante murder, has no support in the key Islamic texts, and similar crimes have been recorded in Hindu, Sikh, Druze, Yezidi and some Christian societies.

‘Honour’ killings are not distinct practices, but the most extreme outcome of a system of social organization which asserts control over women and girls. Certain interpretations of religion are used to justify practices such as non-consensual and child marriage, the control of women’s behaviour, and the structure of the patriarchal family; these feed into the culture of ‘honour’ even where violence or killing is religiously proscribed."

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Aren't caste killings(haryana style) and ethnic killing(karachi style) are different than honor kiliing because these seems more similar to genocide?

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Honour Killing LOL Isn't that an oxymoron?

Are there actually "Honour" Killings, where males are killed, or is it just the females who can get killed for bringing shame to the family's "Honour" so that the males have to do something disgraceful to "save" the honour of the family.

Shouldn't the males who carry out the Honour Killing be killed in the name of the family's honour also because they did something disgraceful? That would be fun...

Re: Non Muslim ‘Honour Killing!’

Good light on Caste Honor Killings

Caste-based honour killings in state on the rise: NGO - Times Of India

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/world/asia/10honor.html?pagewanted=all

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

[QUOTE]
Shouldn't the males who carry out the Honour Killing be killed in the name of the family's honour also because they did something disgraceful? That would be fun...
[/QUOTE]

Oh believe me it has happened...

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

It's a process of redemption. The taking of life is seen as purging of shame/sin :

"The regime of honour is unforgiving: women on whom suspicion has fallen are not given an opportunity to defend themselves, and family members have no socially acceptable alternative but to remove the stain on their honour by attacking the woman." (Amnesty International)

The majority of victims are female because it's understood that a man's honor resides in the bodies/actions of his female relatives. Historically there's always been a gender double standard, where preserving 'chastity' is perceived to be a female responsibility. 'Modern' desi society is no exception - a single rumor can irreparably damage a girl's reputation, but we generally accept that 'boys will be boys.' Unfortunately, I've heard people use scripture to reinforce these attitudes. While Islam holds everyone equally accountable for their conduct, curiously the verse about physically 'disciplining' disobedience/immorality in the personal sphere only applies to the erring wife.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

I think generally in society women are easier to control and abuse by men and their family compared to males and so are an easier target. Men usually are financially well off and more likely to run away from such situations, whereas women are more dependant in desi societies on their family or husband looking after and providing for them, and also desi society has no real provisions in place to help run away females and look down upon them so they are trapped in staying in abusive lifestyles

What is even more disturbing is the fact that other women, be it mothers or sisters or aunts etc... will actively participate in and help the perpetrators who are usually mainly male.

Religious and cultural leaders sometimes actively encourage or support such barbaric behavior (mainly by staying silent) and dont challenge such behavior/views openly or hold the criminals to account, along with many of the state instruments like the police in more backward nations like in south asia and the middle east. Another reason to let men do as they please and ignore such behavior is to help keep popular support amongst the people where in such societies males are the ones in charge.

Re: Non Muslim 'Honour Killing!'

Yea I agree with the OP, honour killings i have read in the media and newspapers do mention boyfriends or admirers seeking revenge for being rejected and sometimes kill or disfigure the woman and stuff for not wanting them. Hard for some to accept that this actually occurs and pride is a bad thing. Not sure why there are nasty posts, some need to grow up. Non muslims get away with it most times without their race or religion being mentioned by the media or stereotyped i mean.