NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

^ Above has been discussed here. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=136610

Even Shias own books written by their eminent scholars confirm that Umar bin Al Khattab (ra) is the son-in-law of Ali Bin Abi Talib (ra)! And the books have direct quotation of the Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (ra)!

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

I have to look at the books before I qoute them but inshallah I will

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Brother historically it is not possible.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

It is the only possibilty. Read the following:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=2269944&postcount=33

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

OK here is the evidence for the marriage between hazrat Umer and hazrat Umme Kulthoom

  1. Famous shia book Al Kaafi mentions Mullah Yaqoob quoting Imam Jaafer sadiq admitting to this nikah
  2. Qazi Noorullah Shostri mentions it in Mujalis al momineen
  3. Abul qasim confirms it in his book faqih e Shia
  4. Abul hasan Ali bin Ismail says the same thing in Khilafat Al aqwaal
  5. Also mentioned in famous shia book Tehzeeb

For details please read Nawab Muhsin ul Mulk's book about Shias
Ayatul bayyanat
I hope this will answer all the questions, if there is still a doubt I won't be surprised because these things have remained unresolved for 1400 years
To sum it up ' lakum deenukum walia deen'

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

The real thread has gone to the dogs

What about

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the verses from surah tahreem clearly point to the incident in which they lied…that is accepted by all historians

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Hz Umar (ra) did not form Ahle sunnah wa jammah
and who is suggesting that he cursed Ali(as) ?

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I NEVER said that the first 3 caliphs cursed Ali (as) …

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

**Das Reich ** Care to tell us who you think formed Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah, and while you are at it enlighten us who do you think formed Shiaism?

After having done the above, could you try to answer the following, please?

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

just a quick point for Ibn Sadique: the term ahlu sunnah wal jamma'h was not known to any of the 'khulafa rashideen'; it was coined by muawiyah. previously the factions within the sahaba, resultant of civil strife, were known as 'shia ali' and 'shia uthman', with prominent sahaba such as salman farsi, abuzar etc known as staunch 'shia of ali'. The term shia itself is used in context of follower, e.g.:

“Verily Ibrahim was a Shia of Nuh” [Al-Quran Chapter 37 - Verse 83]

Your point about 'our women and your women' I don't understand. Using your own analogy, you can say the 'your sons and our sons' bit doesn't apply either since the Prophet (pbuh) did not have any survivng sons.

If your issue of mubahela is with representativeness, i don't understand why a daughter cannot represent the 'women'. You've said quran is not ambigious, so why did it not state the more clearer 'our wives and your wives' to specifically include the wives?

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if that be the case, i am not this type of sunni, these umayyads were pathetic people including their top leader, than i be counted in shain-e-ali bit not the ones who reject the first three caliphs

Thanks for telling, i never knew this before as a history of the word ahle-sunna-wal-jimah( i never liked the word before as well and i preferred being called a sunni than this long legal terminology)

Urdu Language Destroying Pakistan!
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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

ibn has more meanings other than son…

a traveller is called ibn-al-sabeel in Quran, does that mean son of the way???
however, nisaa means women and i am not aware of any other meaning for the word…

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mughal, how was the word nisaa used in those times, which women it exactly conveyed

i mean there must be some poetry of the time preserved which can shed light on it

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My dear you have taken the Verse accoding to the words, not accodring the the logic and reality.

Allah Subhana Wa Tallah Ask to Bring Himself, his son, and woman:
Do you think that Allah was not aware about that Mohammad (pbuh) do not have sons, (ALLAH FORBID). OR ALLAH MAKE A MISTAKE TO ASK HIM HIS WOMANA INSTEAD OF WIVE (ALLAH FORBIT). Definatly Not. Because MOhammad (pbuh) did what ALLAH SAYS.

FOR HIM SELF : HE BROUGHT ALI (as) (while bringing ali , did he disobey the ALLAH COMMANT??
FOR WOMAN : BROUGHT (FATIMA (as) while bringing Fatima(as) did he disobey ALLAH COMMAND AS Well?
FOR SON: HE BROUGHT HASSAN & HUSSAIN (as)..(Did He disobey here as well?

Obviously NOT: HE has followed the command of ALLAH SUBHA WA TALLAH. THATs it...

I failed to understand that all TOP CLASS ULAMA ISLAM has agreed with the above statement, that the vese Mobahila is for these five only,. not for any wives etc, how can you disagree with the verse. please explain it.

ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Salam,
(VERSE MOBAHILA)
Could you please explain , That Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) take Imam Ali (as) along with in the battle field , Where ALLAH Said bring your self .(not any one esle)
Did Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) disobley ALLAH SUBHA WA TALLAH?? (GOD FORBID)
Please come with strong evidence?

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One of the Wive position according to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

(battle of Camel)

According to Muslim sources, on the way to Basra in Iraq, the rebel army received news that Ali had come out of Madina in their pursuit. They decided to leave the main road and proceed to Basra through a different route. When they passed through the valley of Haw’ab, the dogs of the village surrounded Ayesha’s camel, barking loudly. She was immediately worried and asked for the name of the place. When she was told it was Haw’ab, she was shocked and she cried, “Alas! Alas! I am the wretched woman of Haw’ab. The prophet of Allah had already warned me against this.”
She was reminded of what Umm Salama hade told her:
“I also remind you that you and I were with the prophet of Allah and he said to us: ‘Which one of you will be the rider of the trained camel, at whom the dogs of Haw’ab will bark, and she will have deviated from the right path?’ We said: ‘We seek refuge from Allah and his prophet from that’. He touched your back and said: ‘Don’t be that one, O Humayra.’” Aisha said: “I remember that.” Aisha remembered the warning of Muhammad, and she cried and said: “Take me back! Take me back!” But the rebels brought fifty men and bribed them to testify in front of her that this place was not the plain of Haw’ab.

In case of Doubt Please read the litrature
This is one of the reason that Ahle sunat wa al jumat stops if any one starts to discuss the battle of camel.
If you are ture and have freedom from all possible problem please consult library.

ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO.

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Glorious Quran Chapter 3 Verse 61
And unto him who disputeth with thee therein after the knowledge hath come unto thee, Say! ( O' Our Apostle Muhammad!) (Unto them) come ye, let us summon our sons, and (ye summon) your sons, and (we summon) our women and (ye) your women, and (we summon) ourselves and then let us invoke the curse of God on the liars!
This verse refers to the famous event of ' Mubahila ' which took place in the year 10 A.H against the Christians of Najran. A deputation of 60 Christians of Najran headed by Abdul Masih their chief monkpriest came and discussed with the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) the personality of Hazrat Eesa ( as ). The Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) told them not to deify Jesus for he was only a mortal created by God, and not God Himself. Then they asked who the father of Jesus was. By this, they thought that since he was born without a father the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) would helplessly accept Jesus' father being God himself. In reply to this question was revealed the Verse.
Verily, similitude of Jesus with God is as the similitude of Adam; He created him out of dust then said He unto him BE, and he became.
When the Christians did not agree to this line of reasoning, then this verse was revealed enjoining upon the Prophet (pbuh&f ) to call the Christians to Mubahila. To this the Christians agreed and they wanted to return to their place and would have the Mubahila the next day.
Early next morning the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) sent Salman al Farsi ( May Allah be well pleased with him ) to the open place, fixed outside the city for the historic event, to erect a small shelter for himself and those he intended to take along with him for the contest. On the opposite side appeared the Christian priests, while at the appointed hour the Christians witnessed the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) entering the field with Imam Hussain ( as ) in his lap, Imam Hasan ( as ) holding his finger, and walking beside him, Lady Fatima ( as ) and followed by Imam Ali al Murtaza ( as ). The Prophet ( as ) on reaching the appointed spot stationed himself with his daughter, her two sons and her husband, raising his hands towards the heaven said:
Lord these are the People of my House
The Chief Monk on knowing that the baby in the lap of the Prophet (pbuh&f) was his young grandson, Imam Hussain (as), the child walking holding the Prophet's ( pbuh&f ) hand was his first grandson, Imam Hasan ( as ), the Lady behind him was daughter, his only surviving issue was Fatima ( as ) the mother of the two children and the one who followed the Lady was his son in law, the husband of Fatima ( as ), addressed the huge crowd of the people who had gathered on the spot, and addressed them saying
By God, I see the faces which, if they pray to God for mountains to move from their places, the mountains will immediately move!
O believers in the Jesus of Nazareth, I will tell you the truth that should ye fail to enter into some agreement with Muhammad and if these souls whom Muhammad has brought with him, curse you, ye will be wiped out of existence to the last day of the life of the earth!
The people readily agreed to the advice counseled by their Leader. They beseeched the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) to give up the idea of the agreed Mubahila and requested for themselves to be allowed to continue their faith, offering to pay ' Jizya '.

-** Al Tabari, Commentary of the Quran, v 2 p 192 -> 193**

Christian Believe that The five above are greatest after Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) but Unfortunatly some who called them Muslim (follower of Mohammad (pbuh) still in doubt.

This historic event of a unique triumph of Islam is taken by the Shias as a religious thanksgiving festival of the triumph against falsehood. Some of the significance of this event are as follows:
- this event unquestionably establishes the truth about the spiritual purity of the Ahl al Bayt
- it proves beyond any doubt as to who are the members of the house of the Prophet ( pbuh&f )
- the seriousness and the solemnity of the occasion demands absolute purity, spiritual as well as physical in the individuals to serve in the fateful occasion for the Holy Prophet to present them to God as the best one of His creation to be heard in the prayers of Truth!

Sunni references
- Ghayatul Maryam, p 300
- Sahih Muslim, v 4 p 1285 ( English Edition), the tradition is as follows:
...( The third occasion is this ) when the following verse was revealed : Let us summon our children and your children. Allah's messenger (pbuh&f) called Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain and said : O Allah, these are my family ...

ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO

Please any prove that any one esle the above having more honor then these five ??? come forward with QURAN AND THEN HADITH.
It is clear that Quran cannot critise itself once declare the above five as greatest after Mohammad (pbuh) from the entire universe. any one is looking again to put dust on his mind or wana close his eyes. then welcome.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

SOME THING MORE TO MAKE MY POINT MORE STONG TRUE:

Glorious Quran Chapter 3 Verse 103
And hold ye fast by the cord of God All together and be not divided ( among yourselves ) ...
Ahle Sunnat scholars and commentators agree that the above verse reflects on the Ahl al Bayt. Here are some references
- Thalabi records on his Commentary Tafsir al Kabir from Aban ibn Tabligh that he heard Imam Jafer as Sadiq ( as ) say:
We are the Rope of Allah about whom Allah has said: Hold fast to the Rope of Allah ...

  • Shafi'i is reported by Abu Bakr ibn Shabah al Din in Rishfaht al Sadi to have said: When I saw People carried off Their departure to the sea of error and ignorance In the name of Allah I boarded the ship of Salvation That is the Ahl al Bayt of Mustafa, the Seal of Prophecy And I caught hold of the Rope of Allah, that is their Love As He commanded us to hold fast to the Rope!
  • A tradition from the Holy prophet ( pbuh&f ) I will soon be called away and will have to depart from you, but I leave among you Two ( 2 ) weighty things, the Book of Allah and my descendants. The Book of Allah is like a rope which extends from the heavens to the earth, and my descendants are my people of the house ( my Ahl al Bayt ). The Subtle and the Aware tells me that the two ( 2 ) shall never part company until they come to me at the Pool. So take care how you treat them after me.

As recorded in
- Musnad of Ahmed Hanbal, v 3 p 17
- Musnad of Ahmed Hanbal, v 3 p 26
- Sahih of al Tirmizi, tradition no. 874
- Kanz al Ummal, v 1 p 47, tradition no. 945 ( for the above hadeeth )
- Ghayatul Maryam, p 242
- Yanibul Muwaddah, p 118 -> 119
- Sawaiq al Muhriqah, v 1 chapter 11
- Safinatul Biharij ( Recorded by Allama Qummi from Allama Zamakhsari ) p 193

I am dame sure that those who ALLAH WANT TO SEE THE TRUTH will realize the fact, Those whos feel guilty to see the truth, will close his eyes, ear,.
AS ALLAH SAYS: I will stamped thier eyes, ear and heart who continously deny the fact and thier distincation will be FIRE (HELL).., SO PLEASE BEHOLD THE AHLE BAYT WHICH ARE LIKE NOAH ARK.

ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

So after all this discussion and explaination of the Shia Mazhab, which one of the so many different Shia branches would you recommend that we follow, and may be you can tell us the differences in the Most prominent of the Shia branches and the Beliefs they hold, so we can choose the right one?

Thanks Brother aur Allah aap ka bhi Hami wa Nasir Ho!

(To the Mods: I asked this same question in another thread and it was deleted:confused: Why?:frowning: )