NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Y2K_Zaid

Let me test your logic. Quran tells all the Muslims including the Prophet (saw) the following:

"Women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity."(Quran 24:26)

1) So does your flawed debunkable logic tell you that Rasool Allah (saw), who is the most pure of the pure married impure ladies and did not pay to heed the commands of the Quran?

The Prophet (saw) has stated the following:

"A woman may be married for four reasons: for her property, for her rank, for her beauty, and for her religion (and character), so marry the one who is best in the religion and character and prosper." (Bukhari and Muslim)

2) So does your flawed debunkable logic tell you that Rasool Allah (saw) preached but did not follow his own advise and married women who were not pure and best in the religion and character?

Same questions have been posed to Brother *Das Reich *. It seems that he is away or occupied.

Waiting to see your '(il)logical' answer.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

abay bayt is NOT *House..

*End Of Story.. Thank you for playing.. bye bye.. see ya later.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Yaar Zaid

Your logic is downright funny, i am unable to understand it, perhaps because there is no logic in it.

Oh bahi, these monthly cycle is not always translated as nijaasat, some people have translated it as something which hurts or painful. moreover it is natural not their own inflicted. now going on what you have said, how can you know that who amongst them was free from what you are caling nijaasat (i cannot write what i have understood).

what my brother healty mind has quoted few kissaas, reproduced by Saidyah, i can only pray for the right path for all those who just do not ponder over Quran and translate it on basis of some hadiths which were compiled probably 100 years after the wisaal of our beloved prophet

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

.

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In your haste to respond I guess you didn’t ponder deep enough and have erred miserably.

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in editing my last post ...yes I admit that

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So technically you have admitted:

1) that the Prophet (saw) did not follow the following command from Quran and married ladies not ‘Pure’ or virtuous .

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I am not accusing them of immorality far from it, but merrely saying that they did conspire against the Prophet , lied to him AND there were BETTER women than them amongst the muslims in those days
ALL 3 points are CLEARLY mentioned in QUran

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2) that the Prophet (saw) did not follow his own advise (see below) and married ladies who are best in the religion and character.

"A woman may be married for four reasons: for her property, for her rank, for her beauty, and for her religion (and character), so marry the one who is best in the religion and character and prosper." (Bukhari and Muslim)

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bukhari has half the ahadith narrated by the Ladies we are discussing

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This is a mighty insult to the dignity of the Prophet (saw).

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how is that ? Infact Allah orders believers to unite against such "ladies" if they disobey the Prophet(pbuh) ...it is an insult if you give precedence to the ladies over the word of Allah

all quotes from surah tahreem

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

brother your theory goes against Quran

It may be if he divorced you (all) that Allah will give him in
exchange Consorts better than you who submit (their wills) who
believe who are devout who turn to Allah in repentance who
worship (in humility) who travel (for faith) and fast previously
married or virgins.
how can they be the best in religion and character when Allah says that they are not?

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

[QUOTE]

So you mean that you understand that there were consorts much better than what the Prophet (swt) got out there and that these consorts were married to some other less noble men than the Prophet (saw)?

Really, do you mean to say and mean the above?

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I am sure the Prophet had some of the best women as his wives but clearly NOT the ones in question

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Brother,** you got to ponder deeper and understand what you are trying to imply, **even if inadvertently.

You may get the gist of what I am saying if you read the following ayahs and pay attention to the ayah highlighted.

And note the condition of “IF” and what horrible reckoning was in store for the Prophet (saw).

Most surely, it is the Word brought by an honored Messenger,
And it is not the word of a poet; little is it that you believe;
Nor the word of a soothsayer; little is it that you mind.
It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings,We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,
Then We would certainly have cut off his aorta.
And not one of you could have withheld Us from him.
And most surely it is a reminder for those who guard (against evil).
And most surely We know that some of you are rejecters. Quran - 69:40 - 49

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here "if " is used in a different context
Here Allah is saying that horrible consequences await those who fabricate lies against him and no one is immune from his wrath
"if" in Surah Tahreem is clearly a warning to those deviant ones to mend their ways before the Prophet may take some drastic action
I hope it is clear to all

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

[quote]

actually this verse is used by sunnis to portray wives as part of Ahlulbayt
forgetting that if they do not " stay in their houses" and do not "obey the messanger" how can they be purified? their status is also dependent on their actions

[quote]

So why should Allah (swt) ‘purify with (thorough) purifying’ someone who He had brought to this world ‘pure and sinless’ unless of course if they did need such (thorough) purifying.
[/quote]

good point ...lets see if someone answers that

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

If trying to find logic in ayat, here i also give a try

Any body with whom the prophet becomes angry surely goes far down the drain, that is why Quran explicitly states sahabas to speak slowly in presence of the prophet lest he minds it and your aamaal get wasted.

Had the prophet divorced any of his wife, definitely that would have been the end of her status as the best women, so automatically once you fall from number one position someone else becomes number one. But if you were about to be overtaken due to some problem but you applied yourself and stayed ahead (not divorced), you got to be number one & the best. Taking cue from this analogy, some had he divorced them (Quran first says about divorce, not presence of better women, in other way round that would have become a fact if Quran stated that there are better women available and if he divorces you, they will be given to him), better women would automatically be available.

So what my brothers are saying that better women were available is to my humble opinion not correct and disrespect to the beloved wives of the prophet and ummahat-ul-momineen. Now i hope both the 'If' being understood differently by brother das reich can be understood similarily by him

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Das Reich, why cannot you read the ayat'staying in the house connected with the display part". i mean you are taking them separately, to my understanding this is one statement i.e. do not display your finery and stay in the house. it might have nothing to do with what you are trying to connect i.e. Jang-e-Jammal

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

^ Thank you bro *Mazhar-Kaleem-Fan * for a nice posts and clarification. I hope that others do understand the points raised by you.

Brother Das Reich - It's just intrinsic hatred within you for the two blessed ladies (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them), whom Allah (swt) willed to be blessed as the wives of the Greatest Prophet and Human ever to walk on the face of the Earth or Heaven.

Inspite of what you feel, Allah (swt) has honoured them with the title Mothers of the Believers!

Whatever the problem there was resolved and Prophet (saw) was pleased with all of his wives.

History testifies to that.

Read up all the books on the blessed life of the Prophet (saw), except the biased ones, and you will note that the Prophet (saw) gave up His Pure Soul while resting his head on the lap of very lady you kinda like to hate. This being done at his own bidding.

*"Women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity." * (Quran 24:26)

So am I correct in understanding from your posts above that the above ayah does not apply to the Prophet (saw) and his blessed wives (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) but for likes of you and me!

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Brother you do agree that Allah wanted the wives not to display themselves in public yet would He have approved of their fiery public speeches, warmongering and leading armies against fellow muslims?

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Brother Das Reich - It's just intrinsic hatred within you for the two blessed ladies (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them), whom Allah (swt) willed to be blessed as the wives of the Greatest Prophet and Human ever to walk on the face of the Earth or Heaven.

my hatred is intrinsic to those who deviated from the path of the Prophet(pbuh) abused the position they had in the ummah and never stopped from decieving it

Whatever the problem there was resolved and Prophet (saw) was pleased with all of his wives.

Did he guarantee that they will not deviate once again after his passing away?

Read up all the books on the blessed life of the Prophet (saw), except the biased ones, and you will note that the Prophet (saw) gave up His Pure Soul while resting his head on the lap of very lady you kinda like to hate. This being done at his own bidding.

Narrated by the blessed lady herself ...no doubt, just like her attributes in sahih books

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Bro ibn sadique
Indeed they are the mother of believers yet they are neither beyond reproach nor are they supposed to lead the Ummah....they are to be obeyed as long as they follow the Prophet(pbuh) if they dont they not it is incumbent upon the true believers to oppose them
to clarify for the sake of objectivity I admit wholeheartedly the good deeds they performed for the ummah after the Prophet(pbuh) e.g
criticizing and cursing the killers of her noble brother
condemning the extra-judicial murders by the ummayyads

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

My brother, here again you are missing the point. i am repeating again because you said that you want to learn, otherwise these things are known to people for the last 1400 years still they refused to accept so how can a few posts do that.

However i clarify, you have omitted the word finery & just used the word display, & you remember the ayat that you should not behave with any one else in a manner that something wrong comes into his mind and lest he says that. This is all connected, The wives of the prophet are being ordered to have a certain kind of attitude amongst which one is that they do not have to display their 'Finery" not themselves but 'finery' in public. I do not think leading war has any thing to do with finery. I am not advocating her stance of war, but you must remember that ayats were revealed just to show her innocence and no other wife of the prophet has this honour. Allah will never reveal ayats in shaan of someone who wil subsequently go the levels as our shia brothers are saying.

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

you can still do bayt my friend's hubby and herself both did bayt on maulan nawal-r-rehman.My hubby and me still trying to find maulana to do bayt on may be MAULAN ABDULLAH SALEEM but not sure

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Now perhaps after the discussion above we should understand the meaning of this Hadiths

Ahl-e-Bait includes the prophets wives as per Quran and based on few Qisaas say we include Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Fatime & Hazrat Hussan & Hussain.

See the second part of the hadith, whosoever turned away from them,

Now whosoever regards all these above mentioned personalities in high esteem has embarked, but few people turn away from Hazrat Muhammad (p.b.u.h)'s two wives, so they turn away from them. The hadith is clear, no one in Islam has tuned away from Hazrat Ali, Hazart Fatima, Hazrat Hassan & Hussain. may they be sunnis or shias or ahl-e-hadith, you name it, but few amongst us have turned away from two wives of our beloved Rasool.

I hope the meaning of the Hadith can be better understood now.

If someone still doubts, than only Allah is the ultimate arbitrier

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Now people will quote nehjul-balagha where Hazrat ali has categorically stated about the prophet's wives & Companions.

Authenticity of Nehhulbalagha can be acertained from my other post (at that time i never knew where the saying attributed to Hazrat Ali has come from). "Hazrat Ali-The door of Knowledge". so if the writer of Nehjulbalagha did only write what Hazrat ALi has said, than please read the posts on the above mentioned link for answers. As one or two statements attributed to Hazrat ALi preset in the book cannot be correct, therefore the authenticity of neh-jul-balagha is in doubt, once the writer has attributed one, he could attribute many more.

Please ponder over the issue and decide with reason not emotion

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

Salam dear:

It is not strange that how you had defined the hadith, therefore,, ALLAH knows very well about the people who turn away from the Quran and Sunnah.
TO make it clear to all Ummah, ALLAH has revealed the VERSE Muhabahila , where ALLAH has not mention the wife, daughter, son or brother.

ALLAH SUBHANA WA TAALAH SAY:
Verse of Imprecation (Ayah-e-Mubahala) in which Allah says: "And to him who disputes with you therein after the knowledge has come to you, say 'Come, let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves and then let us invoke and lay the curse of Allah upon the liars.'" (3:60)

If you think about the two wives is also in the NOAH ARK AND MY AHLE BAYT Hadith, then why MOhamad (pbuh) did not brought them in the battle field.

You are simply ignoring th fact due to un reasonable statement.

If you strong evidence please come forward to explain that Vese Mubahalia is also for two wives of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh).
I you want to hear me that i will give bundle or Ahle Sunnat and Shia references to explain the matter in light of QURAN AND THEN HADITH.

ALLAH APKA HAMI WA NASIR HO

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

If I am talking ilogically then bro sorry so say you are also not on track as well

If I am talking ilogically then bro sorry so say you are also not on track as well
Hazrat Asiya is considered to be one of four great, noble, and pious women in Islam. In the Qur'an, she was the wife of the Pharaoh and was the one who adopted Moses after he was found floating in the Nile River. According to the Prophet Mohammed, she will be among the first women to enter the Paradise as she accepted Moses' monotheism over the Pharaoh's beliefs.
Does Pharosh was pure? But according to Hadeez of Rasool Allah Hazrat Asiya was pure.

Similarly in another scenario we can discuss the wife of Prophet Noah she was also not Prophet’s faithful so what it does mean Prophet Noah was not pure?

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Re: NOAH ARC (as) ARC & AHLE BAYTE(as)

*Y2K_Zaid * - We follow the shariyyah of the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (saw) and not that of earlier Prophets (asa). Full Stop.

If what you is the case, then tell me LOGICALLY why the need for this ayah? Just for filling up a few more lines in the Quran for recitation?

"Women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity."(Quran 24:26)