Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
that was in response to Raatkiranis reply:) ......
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
Here's a typical ****forbrains Mullah follower for you. You disagree with your views, and all of a sudden you become a liberal muslim who
(1) follows idol worshippers
(2) is promiscuous
(3) wears "half naked" clothes.
Hey, maybe I am clad in a burqa all day long. Why does every disagreement with a so called 'mullah follower' turns to a discussion of our suspected penchant for debauchery. We don't agree with you, so it must be because we love nudity and casual sex. Let me clue you in, not all of us are as obsessed with sex as you are, and it certainly doesn't dictate our thought process. Unlike you of course, whose only motivation to 'be good' is so that you can mate with 72 virgins in heaven.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
I have read a few books on Islam, and let me tell you, it certainly makes me more qualified than the 'Mullahs' you are defending whose only claim to Islamic knowledge is that the grew up in a madarassah memorizing Quran in Arabic. Praise them for their devotion (I don't, they did it because their parents couldn't feed them), but have the courage to realize that memorzing Quran in Arabic doesn't make anyone a 'scholar."
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
She said that religious scholars in teh west are better informed and educated because they are educated on Islamic AND secular concepts separately. It helps to know the culture in which you are practicing and preaching your religion, so u can get the message across to the best of your abilities without compromising that original message. So why is it any different or worse if someone was educated under secular AND religious studies?
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
where r all the muslim scholars...what r they doing these days when people need their knowledge and understanding the most?
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
That's the tragedy ManWithAPlan, the 'mere presence' of these female aid workers makes the situation obscene for these people. And I know why, everywhere in Pakistan, when men see a "white" female, we immediately recall all the "porno movies" we have seen them in, and how they must be dying to have sex with local men. Of course that's all Western women are about, nudity and sex, right? Everytime I visit Pakistan, that's what all the local boys want to find out, if being a plumber really increases your chances of getting laid, or whether the photocopy machine is the designated sex area in our workplaces.
But let's take your argument, that they were engaged in some behavior that was considered obscene according to local customs. Well, we know that they didn't come here to party (Cancun beats Pakistan hands down), rather to help people in need. So we can't doubt their intentions. Would it not have been better to set up an 'orientation center' where representatives of local people could acclamatize them with the local culture and customs. But no, we fake mullahs never think of solving problems even when they were imaginery, we just want people removed from the area whom we consider responsible for those problems.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
To put some perspective on things, I'll tell you a story. One of my friends went over there some time ago to do some work with the community in Manshera. Or maybe it was one of the other areas. Anyway, her aim was to work mainly with the women folk.
So, you have to understand one thing. The local village women are for the first time, getting a major opportunity to mingle and speak with women from urban areas in pakistan and from abroad. Many of the female aid workers are not even Pakistani. So, the local ladies are getting a dose of outside reality, since they now have people to talk to who are not necessarily trying to brainwash them to be submissive and quiet.
My friend told me about how at first these ladies were very curious about her and her clothes (she wore jeans and long-sleeve t-shirts and hijaab), and her views and her way of life. Then after having long conversations with them, they sort of started opening up their minds about things. Whether it was about wearing jeans or how they realized that not all educated girls are whores, etc.
I guess maybe the local women are having influences that are opening their minds and its giving them courage to speak up to their men. And their men can't handle it.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
huh....mullah organisations did the most amazing work in earthquake areas as even musharaf mentioned jamat dawa al rasheed trust al khidmat and other jehadi organisations...NGO,s r no way any where close to them infact i have no hesitation in saying tht our government officers and NGO,s have made huge amount of money from earthquake.....but yes,few people who have not met a single "mullah" will keep on saying bad things...
Mullah run organisations enjoy the trust of all the pakistanis(even the trust of non religious).....Alamgir welfare trust is the another example in karachi...
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
so true but these liberal folk won,t understand and wouldn,t hasitate to call them terrorist or extremist cuz these mullahs tell these so called modern muslim the true islam and that is what these ppl don,t like:) .....
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
However, to become knowledgable about religion, one must seek and attain a teacher...
Can you be a surgeon just by reading books? Can you be an engineer just by having read books? Or do you need a teacher to guide you...
And whenever an ignorant Mod-Muslim curses or abuses a scholar, it's equal to a student of medicine cursing his teacher for something that he does not agree with...
And when you disrespect a teacher of any subject it means you are very ignorant of the subject the teacher is a master in...
And in Islam, the first sign of irrefutable ignorance is when a person abuses, mocks, insults and curses another Muslim or a religious person...
Your argument is totally ridiculous. I stand by my statement that Islam is not rocket science. It isn't neurosurgery, it isn't engineering, where you need hands on experience. You do not need formal training in order to practice it and adopt it as your way of life. If that was the case, 999,900,000 of us would be doomed to the depths of hell because we aren't formally trained. And just what is formal training in Islam? How many mullahs have degrees from reputable Islamic institutions? Hardly any. And incidentally, you can learn a lot by just reading books...hmmm, isn't that how your beloved mullahs got their educations? Or did they receive messages directly from Allah (toba naozobillah) that us lay people don't get?
And please educate yourself about the difference between "criticizing" and "cursing." I'm criticizing those mullahs who are nothing but a negative force on society. Last time I checked, people criticize "teachers" all the time. Since you consider Islam to be a science, in the scientific world, there are journals in which people refute and criticize the theories of others. That is how knowledge is expanded--when you allow others to debate you and your stance.
You, on the other hand, go straight to cursing those who dare to criticize a mullah. I'm just glad I'm not brainwashed or as narrow minded as you are.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
Sir Dig A Lot, I think you and most of the people that agree with you are jumping into conclusion. It is nothing but a cultural clash and you cannot label the people over there as dumb or stupid if they stand up to their values. According to them, these things are obscene and who are we to judge? What is ‘progressive’ about a woman who wears jeans or skirts?
The point as you mentioned in your post is they could have held an orientation that gives them some kind of heads up on what to expect when visiting these areas. I do not think the mullahs in those areas are against women or any help that NGO’s, Americans or Pakistanis are providing them. I remember a report where the same locals who had beards and were “Mullah” looking did appreciate and said thanks to American aid when provided. Calling them ungraceful is wrong because I do not think that is the case here rather some cultural clash.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
It is part of xenophobia to be afraid of the differences of other cultures. If you have strong faith, you do not need to be afraid of others, but be tolerant of them, as long as they don't impose their views on you.
It's like how in some european countries, the natives are afraid of the hijab. It's due to lack of tolerance that mullahs are getting angry.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
I think Khehkeshan, has somewhat hit the nail on the head. The question is about tolerance and we can go on a debate on how many people killed, harassed and discriminated on having a beard to women who wear skirts. We can bring France, Taliban to American “War on Terror” on how it has been indiscriminately to the people of different faith and cultural but I do not think we will be hitting the bottom of this topic.
The problem is some elders or “Mullah” knew or found out that women are wearing certain types of clothes and people are involved in activities are obscene to them. It is not their fault if their culture is like that and I am not going to judge them on speaking out. I would, if they halt or threaten the rescue or relief operations just on that basis.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
Your argument is circular. So, if no one should judge others and we should all tolerate, then mullahs should welcome jean-clad females and jean-clad females should welcome mullahs.
If you support this maulvis' decision to ban women from being relief workers, because we should "tolerate" the maulvi's point of view, then why, pray tell, are we not tolerating a female to wear jeans?
Second point - I dont get what this lewd behavior was in the first place? Some girl had sex? Oh god, the world is ending. There is no proof of it. No case. So what are these maulvi's talking about?
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
First, pray tell, in what sense, you know better than they do? The argument is not about tolerating rather respecting a culture and in this case, the relief agencies who are visiting those areas must respect their traditions. Those women can wear jeans, skirts and talk all ‘progressive’ if they want but this is not the place to do it.
Second, they are banning them not because they are women than their behavior. Pakistan is very conservative place, there is relief operation going on and the people who are involved must understand the people and cultural of that place. They must not act as if they are doing them some kind of a favor.
If there is any accusation, the relief agency must respond to it whether they believe it is true of false. District police officer has told these people to 'take care' of their local sensitivities, which gives you a hint that they were in fact involved.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
I wouldn't mind this fatwa from a clergy IF they were there helping the victims or if they had organized a jamaat sufficient enough to carry out the needed work. If they aren't/haven't then they should continue studying religion.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
I did not use the roman transliteration of the word with r because of religiouds connotation of the word hijra in Islam.
Re: No women aid workers in Pakistan quake area: clerics
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bunch of Hypocrites. The Anti-Mullah Brigade I mean ;-)