Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
OK any idiot can tell if the person behind the niqab is a man or a woman!!
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Q 2: You are in a park with some girl relatives. A ninja comes and want to befriend them. Would you allow that? [Remember that the person with covered face could be a guy talking in girl voice and want to get free with your girl relatives, without getting recognised].
Q 4: Someone knocked on your door. You opened the door and there are couple of Ninjas standing. They tell you in female voice that they came to visit women of your house. Will you allow them in? [Remember they could be robber that are using Ninja outfit to cover their identity and wants to enter your house to rob. After robbing your house they woukd leave and you will never be able to recognise them].
you really need to be hearing impaired for not telling the difference between a real female vioce and a fake one.
besides, you can come up with million reasons for not wearing niqab which anyway cannot stop the individuals practicing it. Ladies wearing niqab/hijab aren't forcing you to wear one, why are you imposing your ideas for not wearing it on them?????? Live and let live, it's that simple.
Also, calling someone "ninja" who is wearing a veil is just as disrespectful as calling a slut/whore to one not wearing it.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
OK any idiot can tell if the person behind the niqab is a man or a woman!!
Actually, I must beg to differ. I went to a party once, where one of the boys came in dressed in a burqa (total niqab), and he was introduced to us as someone's cousin. It was a joke, of course. We were pretty surprised. He did an amazing job impersonating a girl.
I think when he extended out his hairy hand, we figured something was wrong.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
^ Was this before he started to talk?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
There are female impersonaters who could wear Mariah Carey's beachwear and you still wouldn't know it was a man. Of course a man in a burqua could pass for a woman to some level. But does that even matter?
I don't know about all cutures, but in US, many people will judge those who cover themselves up as socially unacceptable -be it superhero costume or burqua. Fact of life. It has little to do with hatred, ignorance or intolerance but rather respect. It's hard to respect someone you can't even see. Cloth framed on a moving object doesn't equate to 'someone', but rather 'something'.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
I don't know about all cutures, but in US, many people will judge those who cover themselves up as socially unacceptable -be it superhero costume or burqua. Fact of life. It has little to do with hatred, ignorance or intolerance but rather respect. It's hard to respect someone you can't even see. Cloth framed on a moving object doesn't equate to 'someone', but rather 'something'.
That in no way flies, or is to be appreciated. Such was the case with skin color a while ago.
It is, of course, what it is...any fears may well be based on ignorance or even intolerance. But of course, as I said before, it simply may be considered vulgar.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Actually, I must beg to differ. I went to a party once, where one of the boys came in dressed in a burqa (total niqab), and he was introduced to us as someone's cousin. It was a joke, of course. We were pretty surprised. He did an amazing job impersonating a girl.
I think when he extended out his hairy hand, we figured something was wrong.
Such irony eh? Niqabi attending a party.. and yet you "beg" to differ.
Re: “No to Ninja Nuisance” ?
It is not a big deal that a guy imitates girl voice. To an extent all male can imitate female voice and it is almost impossible to tell, especially when they are hiding behind mask.
As for calling them Ninja: Why are you so jealous when someone calls those non-entities in black with two holes, as Ninja? Ninja are respectable people and when these non-entities are called Ninja, I believe they should get happy and flattered.
When I see them I can’t tell who they are? They could be men, women, or whatever, it is uncertain, thus I cannot call them with any name specific to gender. I know that some call them Niqabis, but that is really disrespectable. Niqabis are criminals, immoral and disreputable people, people whose deeds are so bad that they are ashamed to show their face. They hide their face so that they could not get recognised. Many criminals use Niqab to execute their crime and get away undetected (unrecognised).
I can also call them non-entities ‘KKK (ku Klux Klan) in black’. Actually, some Pakistani Ninjas looks like KKK in black, though most looks like Ninjas, and since Ninjas are respectable, I call them non-entities in black with two holes, Ninjas.
You want to know about Ninja? Here is a Ninja in Ninja outfit.
Regarding your ‘Live and Let live’ motto, I fully agree with that, rather I would fight for the right of people to live the way they would like to and follow their beliefs, even though I may not agree with their living or beliefs (as long as that living and beliefs does not affect others): But there is problem. Here it is:
Hijab: As for tolerating people in Hijab, that is different matter. Hijab is a dress code for Muslim women and should be appreciated. No one in their right mind should or could say anything wrong about someone in Hijab. It is very respectable and decent dress code. Actually most women in my family when they go out, they go out in Hijab.
Niqab: As for Niqab, it is not about tolerating, problem is allowing Niqab in society is dangerous for any decent and safe society. Allowing Niqab can affect others living in that society. Apart of Ninja dress being not an Islamic dress, if it is allowed in society, Criminals, Immoral people, Thugs, Thieves, Muggers, Rapists, Prostitutes, Robbers, well anyone you can think of that could take advantage of moving around without getting recognised and detected, would move around behind Niqab, in Ninja dress. If such would happen, society would be unsafe and would go down the drain morally. Thus, Niqab can affect others in society, and people need to know its drawbacks before accepting it as norm.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Mrs. Saeen, I've never heard a better impersonation of a female voice. It wasn't actually meant to be disrespectful towards niqabis. These kids just wanted to play a trick on us to see if we'd recognize our friend.
Cricketplaya, your comments aren't even worth my thought processes.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
That in no way flies, or is to be appreciated. Such was the case with skin color a while ago.
Sorry, but it is not the least bit related. I don't care if you are male, female, black, white, straight, gay, athletic, handicapped, handsome, ugly, skinny, fat, clean shaven, bearded, blind or bespectaled. Just be you.
At least in this society, please dress as modestly as you like, but don't pretend to be a person with no physical presence. Or if you do, please don't expect to be treated equally. Of course it is different in some societies, I cannot speak of that - culture is what it is. But not in most western cultures.
2 Likes
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Sorry, but it is not the least bit related.
Of course it is. There was a prevailing cultural attitude towards "people of color". It was wat it was.
[quote]
At least in this society, please dress as modestly as you like, but don't pretend to be a person with no physical presence.
[/quote]
Okay, if this is the concern...how on earth is social boycott of such people "better" to you?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Mrs. Saeen, I've never heard a better impersonation of a female voice. It wasn't actually meant to be disrespectful towards niqabis. These kids just wanted to play a trick on us to see if we'd recognize our friend.
Cricketplaya, your comments aren't even worth my thought processes.
That's good to hear.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Of course it is. There was a prevailing cultural attitude towards "people of color". It was wat it was.
You are comparing racism to a difference in culture. It wasn't the fact Aunt Jemima wore a do rag, it was because she was black. People hiding their indentity does not have a place in western culture or history outside of movies, costume parties and Halloween. Even when women were subservient in western culture, they were seen. It is a huge difference in culture to deal with someone you can't see. Too much to expect or ask.
[quote]
Okay, if this is the concern...how on earth is social boycott of such people "better" to you?
[/quote]
I'm not boycotting them, I would just choose to not interact with them.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Mrs. Saeen, I've never heard a better impersonation of a female voice. It wasn't actually meant to be disrespectful towards niqabis. These kids just wanted to play a trick on us to see if we'd recognize our friend.
I never said ti was disrespectful towards them...i'm sure its very funny, i know plenty of guys who've joked about doing that at an all-girls MSA party (which tehy didnt do of course)..I donno what guys you're around but the ones I know have pretty deep and masculine voices, i mean other than the faggy/gay dudes...
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Now now, we shouldn't insult our brothers who just happened to be given voices of a more high pitch nature. Contradictory to popular opinion, many of them are not gay.
2 Likes
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Saleem1 and PCG:
I mostly agree with your opinions. Saleem1 though I think you got a little carried away with your examples. They all had negative connotations to them. There are some positive aspects as well however overall I am of the same view as yours.
BinAadam:
As usual, more extremism and less logic and totally out of context replies. And if you had understood Quran so well then you would not be seen hurling insults on muslims on this thread who do no agree with your POV. A persons manners often reflect his level of understanding of the Quran. Exceptions can be made in select scenarios but not for those who start out with an insult as in your case. Even if you are right about something you can never convince anyone with that tone of yours. The Quran says "Preach with wisdom and fairness".
Personally I don't feel much offended by people wearing a face veil however such people do need to understand they are doing it out of conviction but it is no sin to show your face. That is the greatest misconception these people carry. Most of the females who cover there faces do it out of the belief that is is sinful to expose your face and not out of conviction. They often fail to understand the need for exposing your face in a select few scenarios or that they would not be sinning by showing their face. If a women choses on her own to dress like that it is fine but when it is necessary to see someones face it should be an issue thinking that they would be sinning.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
BinAadam: As usual, more extremism and less logic and totally out of context replies.
Though you so far haven't addressed any of my replies. Why don't you try at least? Saying that I go without logic can't help you insist on your claims unless you prove it.
[quote]
And if you had understood Quran so well then you would not be seen hurling insults on muslims on this thread who do no agree with your POV. A persons manners often reflect his level of understanding of the Quran.
[/quote]
Number 1, you don't need to judge me for my manners, discuss the thread or the topic not me.
Number 2, you should read your dear brother Saleem's replies which I am sure you find relevant, logical and well mannered because you agree with him over his POV, and the dirty language and insults he uses as his arguments prove you are alleging me for something you support your bhai jaan saleem on what.
[quote]
Exceptions can be made in select scenarios but not for those who start out with an insult as in your case. Even if you are right about something you can never convince anyone with that tone of yours. The Quran says "Preach with wisdom and fairness".
[/quote]
Well, I nowhere said I was going to convince Saleem or you and the likes, I have brough my points, Saleem and PCG didn't address them, about the verses of al Ahzaab and my arguments related to them. If you think you have a better explanation go ahead, but don't discuss me.
[quote]
Personally I don't feel much offended by people wearing a face veil however such people do need to understand they are doing it out of conviction but it is no sin to show your face. That is the greatest misconception these people carry.
[/quote]
You have to prove that.
[quote]
Most of the females who cover there faces do it out of the belief that is is sinful to expose your face and not out of conviction.
[/quote]
Where did you conduct INTERVIEWS of MOST of the females who revealed this secret to you?
[quote]
They often fail to understand the need for exposing your face in a select few scenarios or that they would not be sinning by showing their face.
[/quote]
You mean the need to remove face veil at the time of meals?
No, they do remove it, or someone in the INTERVIEW said otherwise?
[quote]
If a women choses on her own to dress like that it is fine but when it is necessary to see someones face it should be an issue thinking that they would be sinning.
[/quote]
If a woman choses not to wear a face veil because she doesn't regard it religiously important, it is fine but when it is necessary to cover / hide the face because scores of perverts get enchanted by the Beauty Queen and decide to follow the Queen to her home from college everyday, she shouldn't even care for covering her face? Because it is no sin to attract perverts with a Pretty Face?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
If a woman choses not to wear a face veil because she doesn't regard it religiously important, it is fine but when it is necessary to cover / hide the face because scores of perverts get enchanted by the Beauty Queen and decide to follow the Queen to her home from college everyday, she shouldn't even care for covering her face? Because it is no sin to attract perverts with a Pretty Face?
The perverts are the sinners, not the woman. Instead of men coming up with rules for women be treated as a covered couch, they should come up with rules for the men who are the sinners. They are the ones with the problem, not the women.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
The perverts are the sinners, not the woman. Instead of men coming up with rules for women be treated as a covered couch, they should come up with rules for the men who are the sinners. They are the ones with the problem, not the women.
And so a woman who wears very little to seduce perverts, only the men are sinners and the lady is very pious and moderate?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Though you so far haven't addressed any of my replies. Why don't you try at least? Saying that I go without logic can't help you insist on your claims unless you prove it.
Sure, however since you already have your mind made up about what you want to prove its quite futile though.
Number 1, you don't need to judge me for my manners, discuss the thread or the topic not me. Number 2, you should read your dear brother Saleem's replies which I am sure you find relevant, logical and well mannered because you agree with him over his POV, and the dirty language and insults he uses as his arguments prove you are alleging me for something you support your bhai jaan saleem on what.
Not responding to your Clown-Show as you already have made an ass of yourself in your previous posts
This is what you said and then you say you have proper manners of discussion.
Well, I nowhere said I was going to convince Saleem or you and the likes, I have brough my points, Saleem and PCG didn't address them, about the verses of al Ahzaab and my arguments related to them. If you think you have a better explanation go ahead, but don't discuss me.
Your arguments were totally on tangents and not replies to what they had said, which is why my initial statement of "you making illogical statements or out of context replies".
Where did you conduct INTERVIEWS of MOST of the females who revealed this secret to you?
Jamia Hafsa.
You mean the need to remove face veil at the time of meals? No, they do remove it, or someone in the INTERVIEW said otherwise?
Unless they invent one with a hole for your mouth to protrude from it.
If a woman choses not to wear a face veil because she doesn't regard it religiously important, it is fine but when it is necessary to cover / hide the face because scores of perverts get enchanted by the Beauty Queen and decide to follow the Queen to her home from college everyday, she shouldn't even care for covering her face? Because it is no sin to attract perverts with a Pretty Face?
See this is what I mean, you hardly make sense. Either it is your English or truly the way you think. What is religiously important? Be more elaborate. Where did I ever say go remove your face to go through a paegant? Perverts get attracted by more than just a pretty face. And in an Islamic society, men and women should lower their gaze in front of each other, that is the proper respect we accord to each other. We do that then there really is no question about having to veil your face out of fear of perverts. As for men we know we should not give a woman a lustful gaze either, so still not having a face veil should not be a concern. You could probably say in more open non-muslim societies they are not bound by such actions but then they have much more revealing women to get perverted by than a Hijabi. If they would decide to pick on a Hijabi it would be for more hatred than perversion.
The fact is that it is not sinful to not have a face veil and you cannot prove that it is.