"No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

Re: “No to Ninja Nuisance” ?

Well sister, problem is not just mental, but it is to do with believing on Allah and Quran. Just imagine; Quran is message of Allah to human. But surprisingly, you will find many who call themselves Muslim believe that Allah cannot even communicate properly and effectively. They believe that Allah have no ability to give message to human, hence they would never think themselves over an ayah, but would look towards other humans for understanding. According to these people (from their actions and beliefs), Allah depends on other humans to make his message understandable.

Most troublesome are deviant people that would twist the message of Allah according to their personal belief, and would not like anyone to look at messages in Quran logically (actually, these deviant people do all to discourage Muslims to look at message of Allah and think over that logically). Anyhow, I do not care or would like to argue with them unnecessarily, as in the end we will all die, and these people will be answerable of their own beliefs. I can do as much as I can and hope that Allah guides me in understand and following Islam correctly, that’s all.

Worse problem is that some believe Allah does not even know what Allah is talking about in Quran. For instance, please read the ayah 33:59 carefully, and see how these people claim that Allah does not know what Allah is talking about. (Note: Surah Al-Ahzab (33) was revealed around 5 H, and what is there in this ayah is final for all time in Islam).

Ayah 33:59: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their person, as that is most proper, so that they may get recognised and thus they will not be molested. Allah is ever forgiving and most merciful.

Allah is saying clearly in the ayah (33:59) that: ‘they (believing women) should wear such dress that they may get recognised and thus they will not be molested’. From Ayah, it is clear that Allah tells Muslims that if a woman would get recognised as believing woman, they will not get molested (by people of bad character). [Obviously, people of good character would not molest any women, regardless of dressing]

But these so-called Muslims believe that Allah do not know what Allah is talking about. These people do not believe that once woman is recognised as of good character, no one would molest her. According to them, what Allah is saying in ayah 33:59 is rubbish. Contrary to what Allah says in ayah (33:59), they believe that if people (of bad character) do not recognise a woman because woman has covered her face (wearing burqa with two holes); then these people (of bad character) would not molest her.

From the ayah, it is obvious that Allah linked dress code of women, recognition of women, and chances of women getting molested. Anyhow, let analyse the ayah and ask question.

Q 1: What was the situation before the revelation of the ayah (33:59) and why there was need for the ayah? Think yourself, try to answer the above question and find answer from the ayah (33:59).

Q 2: What Allah recommended in the ayah (33:59) to counter the situation mentioned in Q 1? Again, think yourself, try to answer the above question and find answer from the ayah (33:59).

I am sure that people if they would read ayah 33:59 and understand the ayah carefully, would realise what Allah wants from believing women and what non-believing women would do to disobey Allah. For me, I believe from the ayah that:

Before the ayah, most honourable and believing women that use to go out of their house were wearing dress hiding their face, and thus were not getting recognised, so some men of bad character were molesting them.

[What I believe, dress codes to cover faces were normal amongst all women of substance during the time of Prophet (SAW), included Kuffar women. Muslim women of substance were doing the same, moving around with covered faces. Getting molested was not a problem as long as their identity was unknown. But after Islam, molesting became problem for believing women and thus ayah (33:59) came to safeguard believing women from getting molested. This ayah told believing women that they should move with uncovered face, so that they could get recognised and that would stop people molesting them.]

After the ayah, honourable and believing women start going out in modest dressing (in Hijab), but use to leave their face open, so that people could recognise them. This opening of face made the men of bad character recognise them too, and because they recognized them, these men of bad character stop molesting these believing women.

Hence, according to my understanding, it is obvious that in ayah 33:59, Allah ordered believing women to go out in Hijab but not in Niqab. This is also obvious from women Hajj dressing. If Niqab was allowed by Allah for believing Muslim women, Allah would have allowed Niqab in Hajj too, and Niqab would not have become disallowed during Hajj.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

The above two verses of al Ahzaab talk about Common Sense, not about a single incident, e.g if I take your words to be correct then it would mean that only those Believers were commanded by Allah to ask for anything behind the screen to the Mothers of Believers who were there in that feast, and after that feast was over, Believers were allowed to ask for anything from Mothers of Believers with no Screen to Mothers of Believers?

It is strange that Allah calls them Mothers of Believers, and Allah says that the life of Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam is Aswah Hasanah, an example or role model to Believers but the Daughters of those Mothers (Wives of Muhammad) are not to follow their Mothers?

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

What do you really think about the niqab ....is it fardh or optional?

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

You're mistaken in understanding what I was saying, binAdam. I'm not saying the verse was revealed to ask the "mothers of believers" to cover their faces. I'm saying, that it was a symbolic way of saying "Don't intrude on peoples' privacy, especially a woman's". I think we can both agree that walking into a bridal room with a bride waiting in the room after her marriage ceremony is pretty rude.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

**PyariCgudia: **Sister, you are right. Part of surah Al-Ahzab is related to the marriage of Prophet (SAW) with Zainab (RA). This marriage was very controversial for people of that time, as Zainab (RA) was first cousin of Prophet (SAW) and was divorced wife of Zaid (RA), who was adopted son of Prophet (SAW). Many people made an issue of this marriage.

As for ayah 33:53 is concerned, it is related to general principle of social order that Allah commanded on Muslims (that is ayah 33: 53-55). Even though Ayah 33:53 particularly applies to people visiting Prophet (SAW) house but along with Ayah 33:54 and 33:55, these ayahs also applies to general social behaviour for Muslims while visiting others.

Prophet (SAW) was head of state as well as messenger of Allah. Different type of people must be visiting house of Prophet (SAW). They may be having food at the house of Prophet (SAW). At times, they may need to ask for water or food or anything from wives of Prophet (SAW). At times some might even need to visit house of Prophet (SAW) for any goods they needed. Probably, some amongst them may not be following formalities when asking wives of Prophet (SAW) in way that do not cause discomfort to wives of Prophet (SAW) and even Prophet (SAW).

Hence the ayah (33:53) got revealed putting particular condition for men visiting Prophet (SAW) house, but then these conditions became general conditions for Muslims visiting houses of others and asking women of the house for anything needed [making visiting the house of Prophet (SAW) as example].

When a person, be that men or women, are in their house, they are relaxed and in casual appearance. Many would not like to come in front of visiting guest in that casual appearance, be that men or women. Thus, ayah put condition on people visiting houses of others. They should enter only when people of the house allow them. If visit is formal and purpose is meal, go nearer to the time of meal and leave after meal.

If guest (men) comes visiting men of the house, women do not need to come in front of guest neither guest should go to them. If men visit the house to see men of the house, and need to ask any goods from women of the house, they should do that from behind the cover, else they could bring lot of discomfort and embarrassment for women as well as men they are visiting (as it is not necessary that women are in formal dressing). It is also possible that women of the house would not like to come face to face in front of guests, and guest not using cover to ask would thus be intruding the privacy, causing embarrassment to all.

Ayah 33.54 tells people that when they visit houses of others (or others visit them), what is in their intention, what they reveal or conceal, Allah knows, but nevertheless, they should follow the guideline mentioned by Allah.

The condition for women was revealed in ayah (33:55), telling them who they can interact casually in their house (their Mehram).

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

^ Right, and you really can't even use this to hinder people's movements. There's flexibility. If I have a study session at my apartment, and I invite guys and girls over, as long as I'm comfortable with it, its fine. If the guys living nearby just drop in whenever they feel like it, and I'm in a tank top, then that's invading my privacy. Of course, these most houses have locks to them. We're talking of an age and culture where people come and go freely in each other's houses (although that happens back in Pakistan often though - neighbors just opening up the gate and walking in)

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

PyariCgudia: Sister! is it not unfortunate that we cannot rewrite all what code Allah has directed for Muslims, according to our like and dislike? :)

Nevertheless, I think that we are all responsible of our deeds and in the end it is we who will answer to Allah regarding our deeds. We should try to understand Islam and try to implement that as much as we can on ourselves, with sincerity, hoping that Allah would forgive any lax in that.

As for your last post, I believe that to an extend, you are right. As long as one stays within the boundaries and recommendations in Islam, all what you mentioned and wrote regarding being comfortable, is allowed. Further to that, I have no comment.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

I don't have my say on this, I personally like Niqaab on ladies as it closes the door of fitnah and I know majority of 'Ulama suggest that but I can't say if it is fardh or what except that the claim of Munafiqeen (moderate Muslims) that it is unnecessary is totally wrong as it is based upon twisting Quranic verses.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

Not responding to your Clown-Show as you already have made an ass of yourself in your previous posts, except the following

Suppose the following part of 33:53 is concerned with people who visited Prophet's house:

وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِن وَرَاء حِجَابٍ ذَلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ

..And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen (Hijaab): that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs..(33:53)

So you mean by the above that no screen or Hijaab was required by the Mothers of Believers when they were not at their homes, when they were out along with Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam in a military expedition, or Hajj or Salaat, people were allowed to talk to them on purpose or ask for them anything, or ask a question without any Hijaab?
And if we suppose there was no Hijaab or screen required by the Mothers of Believers outdoors, that wasn't going to impure those hearts who were to address them?
This command of Allah was specific to them when Mothers of Believers were at home but when they were outdoors smiling at something and looking pretty, any Believer was allowed to talk to them and in doing so its only his responsibility to keep his gaze lowered and no responsibility of Mothers of Believers to stop the evil at its door?

Allah says in the above verse:

that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs

So Allah wants this purity only at home and not outdoors?

[quote]
Prophet (SAW) was head of state as well as messenger of Allah. Different type of people must be visiting house of Prophet (SAW). They may be having food at the house of Prophet (SAW). At times, they may need to ask for water or food or anything from wives of Prophet (SAW). At times some might even need to visit house of Prophet (SAW) for any goods they needed. Probably, some amongst them may not be following formalities when asking wives of Prophet (SAW) in way that do not cause discomfort to wives of Prophet (SAW) and even Prophet (SAW).
[/quote]

Wasn't the verse 33:53 a guideline to Believers even after the death of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam?

[quote]
When a person, be that men or women, are in their house, they are relaxed and in casual appearance. Many would not like to come in front of visiting guest in that casual appearance, be that men or women. Thus, ayah put condition on people visiting houses of others.
[/quote]

And when women go out there is no condition put by any aayah, anyone can ask for anything from any lady without any Hijaab or a veil on her face, even if he gets attracted by her eyes, lips, smile or whatever? Even if it impures his heart and the woman's heart impure?

[quote]
They should enter only when people of the house allow them. If visit is formal and purpose is meal, go nearer to the time of meal and leave after meal.
[/quote]

What if the lady is out without any people of the house, i.e all by her herself, with no face veil?
Are you allowed by the above verse to ask her for anything, or have a conversation?
Wouldn't it impure your heart?
If it wouldn't then its strange that it impures your heart at her home and doesn't do anything when she's out.

Most of your post is always absurd.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

You are a joke :D Besharram behaya and proud of inviting guys over.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

For a study session? You've got to be kidding me. How do you equate that with drinking and dancing?

I wonder what kind of study sessions you've been at.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

In universities, you cant help but be around the opposite sex. Many people study together and you make many friends of the opposite sex...

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

Niqab is a farz, obligatory? I dont know
Niqab is a nusiance? I do *know *that it is NOT.
Several respectable muslim women in islamic history adhered to practising it. None of them was damned to hell, nor blamed of twisting the religion and i surely dont see any person here knowledgable enough to grant heaven or hell. This is exactly how you impose and enforce your opinions on individuals. The article promotes discrimination and bigotry. Peace.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

Because intelligence knows no gender boundaries. I have friends in the class that I study well with, and some of them are ladies and some of them are gentlemen.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

This really isn't what the thread was for....

All i wanted to bring to attention of educated and civilized people was that nobody has a right to make fun of a woman who prefers to cover her face. I am not going into th argument whether it is right or wrong. Those who do full niqab have their proofs from Quran and sunnah. Those who just do hijaab an cover thmeselves excelpt face and hands have their own proofs from Quran and sunnah.

The point is that it is just so debasing to speak in such a way about a group of our sisters who are covering their faces. I fully support them if they do cover their face. What harm is it bringing to others? None! In fact they go out of the way and deserve our praise for doing something they feel is right...and that too at all odds and with the wolrd full of many hooligans.

Preachers of tolerance have themselves turned out to be so intolerant. Sisters who do not cover their faces but do the hijaab are equally respectable, as are all sisters and women in the world.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

^ I agree with you 100% Laeeq Khan; my Jihaad is against the Worshippers of god-Bush who preach moderate Islam and criticise Muslims for their practising Islam. It is time we the Youth of Muslim Ummah should get united and chase them the way Jami'ah Hafsah students chased the Prostitute to expose her to the world.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

Laeeq Saheb: so innocence of you! :) ..

Brother, no preacher of 'moderation' or one can say 'Islamic values' have turned into intolerant ugly face (that some ignorant posses). But then, it is no Islamic value to allow evil in society and Islam teaches a Muslim to be logical and counter evils of society with logical and honest examples :)

[Just imagine, when Allah asked Muslims to stop gambling and intoxicant, Allah did not send message that ‘guys, these are now not allowed’, Allah send message explaining that even though there is good in them, harm is more than good, that is why they are not allowed. When Allah told people that there is only One God, Allah also explained that, if there would have been more then One God, there would be chaos in universe, as multiple Gods would be running the universe differently, causing chaos.]

You asked about harm related to Ninja dressing? OK. Let see: Be serious, do not try to take it as joke, and without evading questions, try to answer few questions honestly, harm would become obvious.

First let see how much you would seriously trust a Ninja. Be honest and try to answer.

Someone you know fell in a pond and needs your help to come out. There are few people gathered around. You decided to take off your expensive watch and give it to someone around to look after, so that you can enter the pond. In the crowd around, there are maybe 20 to 30 Ninjas (you cannot tell one from another) and couple of decent dressed non-Ninjas.

Be honest, whom would you choose for trusting your watch and why? Will it be someone who you could never recognise after giving the watch (like Ninjas), hence could never ask the watch back, or someone whom you can recognise and could come to them directly to ask for your watch?

[Remember that once you gave the watch to Ninja, no one would know who amongst so many Ninjas took the watch, as once people turned their eyes, no one would know who you gave the watch neither you would know who you gave the watch. When you would come back for your watch, you would just be staring sky and hoping that someone come forward to give your watch back.

As for others non-ninja around, you are not only giving the watch, but also recognising the person. So, when you come out for your watch, you could go straight to the person and ask for your watch. That other person also knows that it is not only you who recognise that person but all present there are witness that he took the watch].

Some questions (there are many similar questions, questions that are part of day to day social life):

Q 1: You found that some girl you know have a close Ninja friend who visits the house and stay with the girl in her bedroom for hours. What would you do? Allow that? [Remember, that person behind Ninja dress could be boy friend of the girl, or could be a boy blackmailing the girl and using Ninja dress to exploit her and innocence of people around her, without even getting recognised]

Q 2: You are in a park with some girl relatives. A ninja comes and want to befriend them. Would you allow that? [Remember that the person with covered face could be a guy talking in girl voice and want to get free with your girl relatives, without getting recognised].

Q 3: You are walking on a deserted road in evening alone. Three to four ninjas are standing in front of you, talking to each other on your side of the road, what would you do? Keep walking towards them unconcerned? [Remember that they could be muggers in disguise waiting for their victim and you could be their next victim, without you even be able to recognise them ever].

Q 4: Someone knocked on your door. You opened the door and there are couple of Ninjas standing. They tell you in female voice that they came to visit women of your house. Will you allow them in? [Remember they could be robber that are using Ninja outfit to cover their identity and wants to enter your house to rob. After robbing your house they woukd leave and you will never be able to recognise them].

Q 5: You are running a shop. You are alone in the shop waiting for customers. Three to four Ninja enters your shop, what would be your reaction? Be calm or get worried? [Remember, they could be robbers covering themselves in ninja dress so that they can rob the shop and leave unidentified].

Q 6: You are policeman looking for a mugger whose description you are told. You are watching people of that area quietly. Then you saw couple of people in Ninja dress walking around. What would you do? Will you keep quite or stop them and ask them to show up? [Remember that one of those in Ninja dress could be the mugger you are looking, evading arrest with the help of ninja dress]

Q 7: Someone mugged you in Ninja dress and ran into next road. You followed him with your friends, but when you entered next road, you saw many Ninjas around. What would you do or could you do? Forget the chase or curse those Ninjas?

Q 8: You are policy maker in government. Discussion starts on allowing Ninja dress in the country, or stop that. Would you be in favour of allowing that? [Remember, safety and security of all in the country is one of your main responsibility. When allowing Ninja dress, you could be allowing robbers, muggers, thugs, shoplifters, crooks, people of devious characters, wanted criminals, and all other corrupts a way to move around and victimise their victim with immunity, unknown and undetected because of ninja dressing]

Actually, there could be unending number of questions that is related to Ninja dressing and concerns day to day life and can effects anyone at any time.

In the end: Can you please tell me that how can you say with certainty that all those stick carrying Ninjas of Madrassa Hafsa you may have seen on TV are really girls and there are no guys there in Ninja dressing? Be logical in your answers and answer without getting upset. Do not try to avoid the questions or reply with abuses, accusations, or joke, but seriously as grown up. Who knows, your explanation may be so logical that it would convince me and all people with my beliefs, realising that we are wrong and what you are saying is right. We might also realise that allowing Ninja dressing in society could bring no harm but everthing there in Ninja dress is full of good (or even that there is more good in Ninja dress than harm).

Further: If you want to claim that this dress is Islamic, then I would appreciate if you can logically explain what Allah demands in ayah 33:59 when Allah says that to wear a dress where women gets : ‘Recognised’? Please explain, how can anyone recognise someone in Ninja dress?

Does Allah means, that ninja dress automatically means believing women? If that would have been the case than it would be illogical, because there is no built in mechanism that means ninja dress can be worn by only women, leave believing women. If allowed in society, any person can put on ninja dress to do whatever they like. Once allowed, no one can monitor who is wearing Ninja dress and for what purpose.

Hence, to me when Allah tells women that they should be recognised, it means that their face should be exposed. Allah has created human face for recognition, and thus his command is obvious. [Actually, good and bad faces are also part of Allah test for mankind. Allah sees as part of our test, how we react to people and their faces].

Anyhow, you try to explain the ayah too, let see what you make out of it. Ayah is as under?

Ayah 33: 59 … PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

So when someone falls into a pool, you first care for your watch and jewelry and don’t care for the person who needs your help?

Suppose you give your watch to a non Hijaabi sister because you can see her face, but you will have to stare at the pretty face of this sister in order to keep her looks into your memory before jumping into the pool? No?

Or you will have ENOUGH time to first decide WHOM to give your watch and jewelry before jumping into the pool?

And suppose you have recognized Which non Hijaabi sister you handed your watch and jewelry, what is the guarantee that she will be waiting for you to come out of the pool? Can’t she take her bus to go home with your valuable belongings?

A Hijaabi sis cannot be trustworthy but the non Hijaabi is 100% trustworthy and pious?

What you talked about above is a an extraordinary condition where you come in panic and work in a rush, you don’t care much for your watch and jewelry but for the Human life which needs your all attention and time.

And she replies, ‘Are you mad? Go back into the pool and find your watch in there, you must have dropped that in, liar.’

lol, people are not stupids like you to watch your stupid show of finding a non Hijaabi to entrust your belongings, they would be NORMAL unlike you, they all would be concentrating or trying to help the one who would be drowning in the pool.

Joke that in order to save the life of an Imaginary person who falls into a pool or is drowning, you want all Girls in the world to be non Hijaabi, but let me tell you this PRECAUTION is not enough.

In order to save a hundred lives on everyday basis, you need to educate people not to wear any Watches, Jewelry, Lose Trousers and Tops but get dressed in a Swimming Costume all the time in order to save those 100 lives everyday which need your help while getting drowned into swimming pools or manholes.

This is because if you don’t wear any NORMAL clothes but wear a Swimming Costume all the time with no jewelry etc at all, you are going to be more quick and fast in giving your aid to the ones who get drowned.
Agree?

What would you do if some girl you know has a close non Hijaabi friend while she is of a bad character to spoil the family girl?

Would you spy on that girl in order to confirm if she is of a good character or not?
[Remember, the non Hijaabi girl could be a druggist, or a criminal who wants the girl you know to be the part of her gang.]

Strange that this non Hijaabi girl or in your own example the Hijaabi girl is a close friend of this family girl and the family girl is still innocent, she doesn’t have any hand in the sin, if there is any?

Shouldn’t you first sweep your own door?
Keep an eye on your own women instead of pointing fingers at Hijaabi sisters.

I am sure with such habbit of sniffers you are soon going to be a Psycho.

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

^ :D
Saleem, seriously how much time does it take to think and type such scenarios????

Oh and btw, what were the hijabis doing by the pool???:)

Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?

okay my mishtake, it was a pond and not pool. sawrry