Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Okay pcg put it this way. Find me a source that says and mind after the passing away of Prophet PBUH (so that we are sure that religion was complete) that any of his wives, daughters didn't do niqaab.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
I am referring to a hadith that says the prophet directly said which body parts to cover and which ones you don't need to, and now you're asking me for more proof. Its like when you ask someone to show you something red, and you pull out a red brick, and they say "No, show me something red".
Guess what most people would do with that red brick.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Quote the hadith properly then. Name the source. And i am still talking about the fact that you can argue whether face veil is obligatory or not but i doubt you will be able to get me one hadith that supports this line of thinking. These ladies deserve some respect and you have completely ignored the initial part of my post number #34.
But I would assume that the sin would be heavier on those people promoting the niqaab when they know very well there is no basis for it in Islam, and who do it to inhibit women from communication, and in the spirit of keeping their female population subjected.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Tirmidhi with a SAHIH chain reports...
"Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said “All of a woman is ‘awrah.”
This is a direct hadith from Rasulullah(Sallallaahu
Álayhi Wasallam ) and has made it clear that a woman must cover everything
including the face and hands!)
Abu Dawood Book 32, Hadith # 4091
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin (Radhiallaahu Ánha) "May Allah have mercy on the early immigrant women. When the verse "That they should draw their veils over their bosoms" was revealed, they tore their thick outer garments and made veils from them. Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalanee, who is known as Ameer Al-Mu'mineen in the field of Hadith, said that the phrase, "covered themselves", in the above Hadith means that they "covered their faces". [Fath Al-Bari].
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba (Radhiallaahu Ánha) "Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha)
used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.
Now look at what 4 madhabs of Sunni Islam says, should we take their words who are experts of their filed of your word who rely on a dictionary to translate few words and give fatwas.
Imaam Shaafi, Maalik and Hanbal hold the view that niqaab (covering the face and the hands completely with only a small area for the eyes to see) as being compulsory (fard).
Imaam Abu Hanifa says that niqaab is Wajib and the face and hands can be exposed provided that there is not fear of desire if one looks at the female face, otherwise if there is the slightest chance of desire developing in the looker (the meaning of desire is that the looker would see the female face and think that she is beautiful, sexual thought is not what is meant) then exposing the face and hands is Haraam.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Tafseer Ma'rifatul Qur'aan, Durre Muhtaar, Fatawa Shami, Al Mabsoot, Fathul Qadeer, Fatwaa Shami)
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
^ There's nothing dignified or respectful in porno...or suggesting it as a release...
Have you ever watched a porno?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
*Ayah 33:59 does not talk about Niqab, It is about Hijab.*
What a farce way to misguide innocent Muslims using Ayah (33:59) from Quran, claiming that the ayah is anything to do with Niqab. Please do not misuse Quran to misguide Muslims, hoping that Muslims are so ignorant that they would not see anything and would accept what is told to them, even when claiming something contradictory to what Quranic ayah mentioned as quotation.
Since some here have used Surah Al-Ahzab (33), ayah 59 to misguide Muslims, I would like Muslims to know how people misguide them. Some claimed that ayah 33:59 talks about Niqab. I invite all to forget what is claimed by some, but read the ayah themselves and think. Ask question themselves what Allah really saying in the ayah. Allah has given us intelligence that we should use to save ourselves from getting misguided.
Ayah: Surah Al-Ahzab (33), ayah 59:
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Now think. Is it not true that Allah is clearly saying in above ayah that to put the over-garments over them so that they could be recognized but not get into trouble?
Now, tell me how a person can be recognized if that person is wearing Ninja dress? Believe me I could not recognize someone in Ninja dress. I do not have X-ray eyes neither I can recognize anyone just looking at two holes. I cannot even recognize if the person under the Ninja dress is man or woman, can any of you?
Another thing is that, in the ayah Allah is talking about cloak (or upper garments), not cloak (or upper garments) with two holes. What I know, cloak (or upper garments) do not have two holes, or do they?
Third thing is that, in the ayah Allah is telling women to ‘let down upon them their over-garments’ or ‘cast outer garments over their person’, in other words, put the garment over them. That to me is obvious that to put that over their head in such a way that their face is open, else, how can one put that outer garment over oneself and could even walk if that covers their face?
Hence Ayah is clearly talking about Hijab, not Niqab. Whoever translates this ayah and claims that Allah is talking about Niqab, is just misguiding Muslims.
Fact is that: If I see someone with Ninja dress (or you can call that Burqa with two holes) walking on a quite road in evening, I would not consider that person any decent person, but would consider such person a thug (if they are two or more together, they could be guys – thugs - looking for victims) or prostitute (if walking alone). As I believe, only dubious characters would hide their faces. Those who are innocent and respectable, would not hide their face but would let themselves recognized (as Allah tells women in ayah 33:59, that to be in dress where they could get recognized)
Another thing is that, I would never let someone enter my house or office whom I could not recognize or whom I believe that others around could not recognize. That is for obvious reason. If I let someone in my house or office whom I cannot recognize (because they have niqab); means that they could be anyone, a thug or whoever, hence better to be aware from them and do not let them enter my premises. If I recognize and others cannot recognize than also it is bad, as that would mean, others might think that I might be having affair or that I am having a prostitute visiting me.
I would not let anyone visit my family in Niqab. There is obvious reason for that too. As that would mean, I am not looking after my family nor I care, and thus do not even know who they are mixing. I care for my family and would always like to know who my close ones are mixing. [Well, I won’t trust anyone behind Niqab to come close to my family anyhow. How can I trust such person? I won’t know who the person is behind Niqab, a guy, a thug or whoever].
I could not understand the mental level of such Muslims that believe that Allah told ‘People’ to move around in Niqab. Such permission is impossible from Allah, as that would mean giving license and facilitating thugs and prostitutes to move around to do their business unrecognized and unhindered. Obviously, Allah never gave such permission, and that is the reason no one can do Hajj in Niqab. .
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
But its not mandated. And if you question the idea of how "mandatory" it is, then you don't automatically become an apologetic for Western bigots. It could very well gasp mean that you're thinking on your own two feet. I've studied Islam. I don't see the justification for covering your face. There is not a single ayah that commands it. There is not a single hadith that commands it. If anything, there is a hadith that claims your face is one exception to the body parts you have to cover.
It's not mandated for you...But it is mandated for those who believe it is mandated...Just like for some it forbidden to date a man...While there are those who believe it is OK if you have dated a man...
Each according to the level of their deen and Eeman...So will they receive in the afterlife...
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
after reading all above, i wondering how come, we are the one who decide what women shuold wear!
If she want to wear Hijab and/or niqab, let it be... they may feel comfortable in it...
why Mr. Article dont want Hijaabi women? whats wrong with her? and at same time if a women is dressed decently (apart from wearing hijab) so whats wrong in that?
I mean to say, what kind of freedom we are talking about here? is it freedo where women should wear the least? i think freedom is let her make the choice and then respect her choice.
and who ever cannot respect someone should be treated likewise. like this 80 years old lady, who dont respect the decision of some women of wearing hijab? why is she imposing herself or her likes and dislikes on others! who gave her the right to do so?
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
^exactly
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
who gave her the right to do so?
Enlightened moderation...
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
^ this "Enlightened Moderation" have given birth to Suicide Attackers ( i think)
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
*Ayah 33:59 does not talk about Niqab, It is about Hijab.*
lol, and what about the verse 33:53?
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتَ النَّبِيِّ إِلَّا أَن يُؤْذَنَ لَكُمْ إِلَى طَعَامٍ غَيْرَ نَاظِرِينَ إِنَاهُ وَلَكِنْ إِذَا دُعِيتُمْ فَادْخُلُوا فَإِذَا طَعِمْتُمْ فَانتَشِرُوا وَلَا مُسْتَأْنِسِينَ لِحَدِيثٍ إِنَّ ذَلِكُمْ كَانَ يُؤْذِي النَّبِيَّ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنكُمْ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِن وَرَاء حِجَابٍ ذَلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ وَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَن تُؤْذُوا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَن تَنكِحُوا أَزْوَاجَهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ أَبَدًا إِنَّ ذَلِكُمْ كَانَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمًا
033.053 O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet’s houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen (Hijaab): that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah’s Apostle, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah’s sight an enormity.
So Hijaab according to the above verse is a separation between a woman and a man who is not her Mahram. Obviously if you stare at the face of a pretty woman, you will have bad thoughts in your mind, but if you are not a human being rather you are a Ghost, then yes a pretty face doesn't affect your kindneys.
Now 33:59
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَاء الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا
033.059 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such)** and not molested**. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Now if covering the face guarantees more security and protection to women from perverts then Niqaab must be practised, because the purpose according to the above verse is protecting the Woman.
There are differences among 'ulama on Niqaab (face cover) but it doesn't mean that losers can twist Quran to claim that Niqaab is not at all the part of Hijaab.
Re: “No to Ninja Nuisance” ?
Has somebody sent an email to the guy i quoted in my first post? Ithink its quite necessary to shut such people up!
Presenting an opinion is one thing///…totally allowed …but spitting venom andshowing one’s utter disrespect, black hearetedness and jihalat …and that too in the newspaper of the hypocrete republic called pakastan… the guy is using the word :ninjas:
i am sure even non-muslims speak with respect..
Re: “No to Ninja Nuisance” ?
Don’t give the admins any more ideas regarding Muslims…They’ll come out with another smilie ridiculing our sisters who observe the Niqab…
1 Like
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
laeeq khan that is a marvellous idea. i am on it.
1 Like
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Don't give the admins any more ideas regarding Muslims...They'll come out with another smilie ridiculing our sisters who observe the Niqab...
oopsss... that was a typo...
absolutely right...about the ridiculing of our sisters... these days enlightenment and mannerism really has come down to such a low level...
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
Imaam Shaafi, Maalik and Hanbal hold the view that niqaab (covering the face and the hands completely with only a small area for the eyes to see) as being compulsory (fard).
...is this accurate? From what I have read, the Maaliki school is neutral on the Niqab.
There is consensus that it is not prohibited , but on whether it is mandatory or not there is great disagreement...
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
lol, and what about the verse 33:53?
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتَ النَّبِيِّ إِلَّا أَن يُؤْذَنَ لَكُمْ إِلَى طَعَامٍ غَيْرَ نَاظِرِينَ إِنَاهُ وَلَكِنْ إِذَا دُعِيتُمْ فَادْخُلُوا فَإِذَا طَعِمْتُمْ فَانتَشِرُوا وَلَا مُسْتَأْنِسِينَ لِحَدِيثٍ إِنَّ ذَلِكُمْ كَانَ يُؤْذِي النَّبِيَّ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنكُمْ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِن وَرَاء حِجَابٍ ذَلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ وَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَن تُؤْذُوا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَن تَنكِحُوا أَزْوَاجَهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ أَبَدًا إِنَّ ذَلِكُمْ كَانَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمًا
033.053 O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet’s houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen (Hijaab): that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah’s Apostle, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah’s sight an enormity.
So Hijaab according to the above verse is a separation between a woman and a man who is not her Mahram. Obviously if you stare at the face of a pretty woman, you will have bad thoughts in your mind, but if you are not a human being rather you are a Ghost, then yes a pretty face doesn't affect your kindneys.
Now 33:59
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَاء الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا
033.059 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such)** and not molested**. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Now if covering the face guarantees more security and protection to women from perverts then Niqaab must be practised, because the purpose according to the above verse is protecting the Woman. There are differences among 'ulama on Niqaab (face cover) but it doesn't mean that losers can twist Quran to claim that Niqaab is not at all the part of Hijaab.
The verse you've quoted here pertains to an incident where a few guests were not leaving after one of the Prophet's weddings, and one of the guests actually entered the private chamber of the Prophet where his bride was sitting. There is no evidence to suggest that all women were ordered to veil at this point. This verse pertains to a specific incident and the term for veil here is taken to mean a separation of private space from public space in the Prophet's life.
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
*Ayah 33:59 does not talk about Niqab, It is about Hijab.*
What a farce way to misguide innocent Muslims using Ayah (33:59) from Quran, claiming that the ayah is anything to do with Niqab. Please do not misuse Quran to misguide Muslims, hoping that Muslims are so ignorant that they would not see anything and would accept what is told to them, even when claiming something contradictory to what Quranic ayah mentioned as quotation.
Since some here have used Surah Al-Ahzab (33), ayah 59 to misguide Muslims, I would like Muslims to know how people misguide them. Some claimed that ayah 33:59 talks about Niqab. I invite all to forget what is claimed by some, but read the ayah themselves and think. Ask question themselves what Allah really saying in the ayah. Allah has given us intelligence that we should use to save ourselves from getting misguided.
Ayah: Surah Al-Ahzab (33), ayah 59:
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Now think. Is it not true that Allah is clearly saying in above ayah that to put the over-garments over them so that they could be recognized but not get into trouble?
Now, tell me how a person can be recognized if that person is wearing Ninja dress? Believe me I could not recognize someone in Ninja dress. I do not have X-ray eyes neither I can recognize anyone just looking at two holes. I cannot even recognize if the person under the Ninja dress is man or woman, can any of you?
Another thing is that, in the ayah Allah is talking about cloak (or upper garments), not cloak (or upper garments) with two holes. What I know, cloak (or upper garments) do not have two holes, or do they?
Third thing is that, in the ayah Allah is telling women to ‘let down upon them their over-garments’ or ‘cast outer garments over their person’, in other words, put the garment over them. That to me is obvious that to put that over their head in such a way that their face is open, else, how can one put that outer garment over oneself and could even walk if that covers their face?
Hence Ayah is clearly talking about Hijab, not Niqab. Whoever translates this ayah and claims that Allah is talking about Niqab, is just misguiding Muslims.
Fact is that: If I see someone with Ninja dress (or you can call that Burqa with two holes) walking on a quite road in evening, I would not consider that person any decent person, but would consider such person a thug (if they are two or more together, they could be guys – thugs - looking for victims) or prostitute (if walking alone). As I believe, only dubious characters would hide their faces. Those who are innocent and respectable, would not hide their face but would let themselves recognized (as Allah tells women in ayah 33:59, that to be in dress where they could get recognized)
Another thing is that, I would never let someone enter my house or office whom I could not recognize or whom I believe that others around could not recognize. That is for obvious reason. If I let someone in my house or office whom I cannot recognize (because they have niqab); means that they could be anyone, a thug or whoever, hence better to be aware from them and do not let them enter my premises. If I recognize and others cannot recognize than also it is bad, as that would mean, others might think that I might be having affair or that I am having a prostitute visiting me.
I would not let anyone visit my family in Niqab. There is obvious reason for that too. As that would mean, I am not looking after my family nor I care, and thus do not even know who they are mixing. I care for my family and would always like to know who my close ones are mixing. [Well, I won’t trust anyone behind Niqab to come close to my family anyhow. How can I trust such person? I won’t know who the person is behind Niqab, a guy, a thug or whoever].
I could not understand the mental level of such Muslims that believe that Allah told ‘People’ to move around in Niqab. Such permission is impossible from Allah, as that would mean giving license and facilitating thugs and prostitutes to move around to do their business unrecognized and unhindered. Obviously, Allah never gave such permission, and that is the reason no one can do Hajj in Niqab. *.
These practical aspects people just ignore. They also ignore obvious interpretations of verses. Its a mental state. Because culturally, our grandmothers, etc wore burqas and its a sign of traditional culture. People can't bear to separate traditional culture where women are at home with the idea that perhaps none of these ideas are Islamic.*
Re: "No to Ninja Nuisance" ?
*How do we deal with such ideas? Its from a local English daily newspaper. *
------------------------------
Letter to the Editor
No to Ninja Nuisance
Q. Isa Daudpota
My eighty year old Lahori aunt and the country's police force have one thing in common. My gynecologist aunt refuses to employ any staff in her clinic who wears a hijab, let alone the face-hiding Ninja headgear, which is becoming increasingly common in our cities. Patients need to communicate unambiguously with their care-givers – would you like a Ninja peering down your mouth or another orifice, or asking you questions muffled by a face-clinging fabric?
Lone Ranger had his day. Today the police refuse talking to masked men. They sometimes even haul up those who drive in cars with privacy preserving dark glasses. In our fear-laced times you need to know exactly whom you are talking to.
The same concern applies to educational institutions where it becomes impossible to communicate with Ninja female students with blinking eyes. This is made worse when the lecturer too adopts this garb. While a hijab maybe recommended according to some religious interpretations as a means of maintaining personal modesty, the Ninja version of it isn't! Thus the paragons of modernism in the Ministry of Education and the Higher Education Commission should issue orders banning the masked headgear in all education institutions.
As for the militant women in places such as Jamia Hafsa the solution is clear. If they stopped being supported by government agencies, they could be flushed out by means commonly known. A more humane way is to show them a better alternative: have the Aabpara Community Center located near their madrassa offer good discounted food, show interesting enlightening films, free internet access and classes in modern thought. Also teach skills, which get them employed in a worldly job.
Pakistan's dilemma is clear-cut though: it cannot rest in peace until religion remains mixed up with the workings of the state. It is time that those who gain international publicity using the slogans of modernism show their concern by stamping out the menace of the Ninjas. Such hypocrites refuse to even voice their concern in unambiguous terms.
QID, 252-A, St 52, F-10/4, Islamabad. [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected] 2 May 2007
Do you mean the person fearing/opposing the niqaab or their aunt who fears/opposes and doesn't hire those who practice it?
For the former, I'd mostly ignore it and see the my family and I keep doing what we have to do. For the latter I'd do the same as for the former and also take my business elsewhere as much as possible.