A little while after i came to the US i realized that it was no place to raise a good islamic family, too many distractions and too much fitnah. Pakistan was my safe haven, a place i always thought would never fall to depths as low as it has now.
So the question is, what is a good islamic place to grow up a family ? where the kids grow up in a religious mahol which isnt too strict neither too loose, where they can see all the good aspects of islam and practice them while still having fun.
Seems like every country has become very westernized and there’s no such place left ? Opinions ?
Sorry if i am not making sense, i havnt slept in a long time now.
There's none left. If kids want to have an immoral time, there are places where they can do it be it in Pakistan, in the Middle East, or the Americas.
I have a friend, call him X, who has a brother, Y. X is 3 years older than Y. X and Y were born in Pakistan but grew up in London, England.
Their parents decided to move to Bahrain, with Y, but left X in London to finish his studies. That was the last that X saw of Y for 5 years.
When Y came back, he had changed so much that even X described him as being a total idiot.
X is a person who many here would try and condemn as being "liberal", (he has a girlfriend, goes clubbing, etc) but even he was appalled at the change in Y after 5 years of living in a Muslim country.
The moral of the story is that the most upright of environments will not help you raise an upright family, if your kids want to indulge in immorality, because they will find a way. The only solution, is, regardless of whetehr you live in the East or the West, to be very careful to instill upright Islamic values in them.
The best place to raise a family is in a good home regardless of where it is. I have seen complete idiots who were raised in Makkah and then came to US and went haywire and I have seen ppl who have grown up in Vegas and are in control...and then there is everyone in between.
The surroundings make an impact, but good upbringing can make it less of an issue, bad upbringing can do the opposite
I agree with Fraudz bhai and Mads bhai, Maniac bhai. :D
Its about how the kids are raised. Ofcourse it would be easier if the outside world was normal, but more influence make parents.
Peeple in western countries can be flipped but normal aswell, just like in pakistan. Just walk there in any street and see how manny guys/girls are prepared for some flirting action.
All rules and principals are passed on from parents on child. All you can do is pray, that it will work out fine.
haha, welcome to the real world maniac... I got a shock too, last time i went to pak.. and now i,m not really fussed about raising em in Pak... its no better than any other place.... I guess it just boils down to ur own tarbeeyat and mahol of ur own home. I can confidently say that I,ve seen a lot more good muslims here in Aus than i,ve seen in pakistan... Just pray for a naik aulaad wherever u raise em.
there are a lot of good muslims in pak too.. just depends where u r.. its just we become so critical of our own kind that we forget to see the good stuff.. like u know the saying “grass is greener on the other side”
as for being kids up religiously, its not a must to be living in a religious society. Ur home and morals should be enuff for the right upbringing :k:
ive been thinking abt this issue too for some time now
its not that every pocket of Pakistani society has become corrupt and westernised and un islamised tho
and that my mates thread was abt some small group of ppl...only less than 1% of pakistanis are like that
u know, when we, u and i, were growing up in pak, in the 80's and 90's, there was a lot of westernisation and un islamic stuff going on as well...i get to hear of it now from books and newspapar articles...but we were alhamdulillah shielded from it because of our parents and families and ppl we socialised with....the home environment, extended family, neighborhood and whom you socialise with matters a lot...
in the west too, there r nice muslim communities, like the masjid communities i saw in north america were awesome...and i saw ppl raised in the usa who were soooo particular abt religion mashallah...
so i think that religiously, u can find good society in Pak and abroad...
i still think tho that raising ur kids in pakistan is the best...b/c its their own country...they are closer to their roots and it gives them a sense of belonging and identity...and its a Muslim country...with such a rich and beautiful culture...its just HOME...i dono...theres no place like Pakistan
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*Originally posted by irem: *
very pertinent thread Maniac
ive been thinking abt this issue too for some time now
its not that every pocket of Pakistani society has become corrupt and westernised and un islamised tho
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corrupt, westernized, unislamic are not mutually inclusive. there are parts of the country which are not westenised but idiotic stuff like honor killings, tribal strife etc go on.
There is a tiny percentage of the population that can be considered "westernised" its about time that people stop pointing fingers at this group as the source of all social ills in Pakistan. Does it mean that the rest of the 99%+ of the population is all okay?
As long as u give ur kids a good home, good values n teach them the difference between right n wrong, u can raise them anywhere. Make them emotionally, morally strong and let them practice judgement of their actions. There are all kinds of people everywhere, with good there is alwayz bad. U can raise ur kids anywhere as long as u give them a good home, thats the foundation.
i disagree with ppl who say that just the home environment is enough. true, the home is the foundation, but its not the entire thing. the same household can produce two kids, one of them a paanch wakt namazi, A grader, tameezdaar kid and the other a juvenile criminal. if u raise two kids in the same household, and one is being given decent company and the other is not, they r bound to turn out differently. i've seen it with my own eyes in not one but many cases.
and oftentimes 'buri sohbat' has a lot to do with it. why is sohbat such a stressed upon factor? coz think about it. how much time does a kid spend at home and how much outside in school and playing outside in the evening etc. the company the kid is exposed to outside the home makes a huge difference. the kid has to have some company and if there r no decent kids in the area, she or he will socialise in the pool of other kids avlbl. u cant even make the kid stay indoors alone as thats not physically and socially constructive. so u shud atleast provide the child a surrounding where there atleast is some decent company avlbl from the entire spectrum of company.
these are little things but they matter a whole lot.
at school too, company is extremely important. ur friends motivate u to keep a standard at par with them academically and have a lot of effect on ur personal and social growth.
Mr F >> corrupt, westernized, unislamic are not mutually inclusive
The company you keep does make a big difference as well.. however children do look to their parents and other adult role models for guidance and reassurance too.
Sometimes you have to sit back and let them learn from their own mistakes too. It so important to be there for them and not be judgemental. Really talk with them about things and make them feel comfortable enough to talk to you openly too.
Instead of telling them what to think ask them what they think... you'll be amazed at what they have to say. Kids are very smart and already have a pretty good sense of right and wrong...especially if the parents have been doing a good job by setting the right example from the start.
As they grow older..and eventually... one is responsible for their own actions. You can only do so much.. eventually we all choose how we are and what we want to be.
Perhaps it isn't just the homelife and upbringing But certainly the homelife gives kids the background, knowledge, and strength to handle a variety of situations and make the right decisions.
Every country largely what you make of it. There are good and bad components to every nation. They are all man-made after all, and necessarily flawed, and yet amazingly good as well.
Allah has given us brains and knowledge in order to understand right and wrong. Raising our children in a totally secluded environment cannot and will not necessarily result in "good Muslims." The world is made up of complexities, as is Islam, and we need to be able to understand them in order to survive.
I don't see why a country that guarantees its citizen's religious freedom, allows them independence and education, is a bad place to bring up a family. MashAllah my family in the US is composed of "good Muslims" and those constantly striving to better themselves.
Why can't kids in Pakistan live the life they want to live just like any other place? We expect those people to stand still while everywhere else moves on? I'm not saying it's right or wrong here, I just wonder why we apply different standards to them than we do to ourselves?
First have kids, and then worry about raising them. Each kid is pre-dispositioned to become what she/he is supposed to become. Society, home, schools, parents don’t have a lot of jack to do with it. Look at the Prophets for example; do you think that they were conditioned by the environment and home to become what they did? Try to live like Prophets, and everything will be all right. And by the way, the most challenging and demanding time to raise kids is from the ages newborn to 4 year old. After that, you can do whatever and nothing is going to change the outcome (it may change it slightly). The most important thing a parent can do is to instill the love of reading in them. Once the reading becomes a habit, everything else goes OK. Obviously when kids grow, they go through a lot of experimentation, I did my fair share of it, and it is OK too. Over 90% of them grow up to be decent human beings depend on what they see at home from the ages 0 to 4. It is a proven fact. The learning curve for kids is a lot steeper than that of teenagers or adults.
Having young kids believe in religious stuff is akin to brainwashing.