No new university in Hyderabad

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Ok. If I am wrong then please explain your post no. 4. There you said:

“I think if they improve the existing Sindh university, **it can fulfill need of students from Hyderabad as well. **They should build universities in distant parts of the province”

The bold part here says that you think Sindh university can b enough for Hyderabad, and there is no need for another university for the city. Your above statement shows that you thought this university is only for Hyd and jamshoro, but I showed you that this university is for the whole province, and a big city like Hyd has no special benefit from it.

the underlined part shows that you are more interested in creating universities in small towns of Sindh, even though they already have enough share in Sindh university jamshoro.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

with this logic Oxford University should have been made in London. Oxford being small town having population of 160,000 and 82 KM away from :London. I think, I don't need to mention distance between Hyderabad and Jamshoro.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Bhai sahib, if new universities were made in distant parts, people would prefer getting education in their own towns, as they do till FA/FSc education. People come to Sindh University, when they don't find such institutes in their area. Building Universities in those areas will increase Hyderabad city's seats. why people should not be provided education in their own areas?

Sindh universitygive seats to students of Dadu, LaRkana and Sukkur. In case of medical universities, students of these areas go to Chandka Medical College, LaRkana (now named behind BB) and students from Hyderabad get seats in Liaquat Medical College, Jamshoro. If setting up medical colleges can lessen the burden on LMC, then why not universities like Karachi university and Sindh university be built in those remote areas of Sindh?

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

So what is wrong with new University in Hyderabad?

Private money is private, what is this go to do with Govt?

Anyone should be allowed to open a University or hospital or clinic etc. anywhere.

Am I missing something? :confused:

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

you are right, but they are emphasising on opening a public sector university, not private one.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Another master blunder.

I saw his speech in which he said karachi sindh assembly and etc. Clearly he was going a bit too forward in josh-e-khatabat.

Good thing is that he has retracted his hugely controversial statement.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

I missed that part.

It all depends if there is enough allocation of the money for this proposal then.

If there is budget then why not?

More the better.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Public sector Universities are mostly located in cities with large population (unless an area with small population is rich and people there are contributing huge taxes). Reasons are simple. They are:

Decision on population: Universities serves large number of students and cities with large population have large number of students, so universities are always near them.

It is like: City ‘Big’ that has 1 million people would have 10 times more students than City ‘Small’ that has 100 thousand people (that also, if city ‘Small’ is not one that has agrarian economy, else number of students from city ‘Small’ would be much lower … as is the case with most Pakistani small cities, towns and villages).

So, it is obvious that if University is in city ‘Small’ serving city ‘Big’ then 10 times more students from city ‘Big’ would be travelling to or moving to live in city ‘Small’ to study. If it would be other way round than a small number of students would be travelling or moving to live in city ‘Big’ to study.

It is also obvious that city ‘Big’ that has 1 million people would easily accommodate and absorb students from city ‘Small’ as the number of students compare to population of city ‘Big’ would be very little. On the other hand, if University is at city ‘Small’ than city ‘Small’ would not be able to accommodate large number of students from city ‘Big’ coming to study, and for that, other than University, city ‘Small’ would need huge increase in infrastructure and accommodation facilities.

Same argument applies if University is at city ‘Small’ serving city ‘Big’ plus 9 other city ‘Small’. Because, now, city ‘Small’ would be serving 10 times student from city ‘Big’ and 9 times student from other 9 ‘Small’ cities. Assuming all small cities have 1000 students at university and city ‘Big’ has 10000 students, then university would have 19000 students from outside and 1000 students local (or city would get 19 percent of city population from outside as students, difficult for many cities to accommodate). On the other hand, if university is at city ‘Big’ than 10000 students would be local and 10000 students would be from outside (or city would need to accommodate only 1 percent extra population due to outside students, easy for city to accommodate and handle).

Decision due to tax contribution: When we talk about public money than that does not mean it belongs to government (or politicians) who can do whatever they like with the money. Public money comes from public, or those who pay that money in various taxes. These tax-payers like that the money they pay as taxes are used to provide facilities to them. Others living in the country shares the facilities as co-citizen, but not as payer or contributors of those facilities.

That means, if government collects tax or revenue from area ‘A’ than most of the money or revenue collected should be spent first on area ‘A‘, not on area ‘B’. People living in area ‘B’ only share the facilities at area ‘A’ (most of the time).

When government collects taxes from area ‘A’ and spend that in area ‘B’ for facilities before first providing those facilities to people living in area ‘A’ than that is not only unjust but it only happens if area ‘A’ is colony of area ‘B’ and people living in area ‘A’ are there to serve people living in area ‘B’. No place in Pakistan is colony (at least they should not be) nor Pakistanis living in any area are colonial slaves (at least they should not be), so such should not happen.

Hyderabad gives more taxes in Sindh than any other city, town or village (except Karachi), so it is their right to get tax money spent there to provide facilities before any other places in Sindh … and that includes public universities, that government can only provide using taxes coming from people, and thus such taxes should be spent first to serve people who are paying those taxes. Politicians have to know that public money is not coming from politicians own pocket, neither it belong to them that they do whatever they like.

[That is the reason, if an area starts paying huge taxes and start contributing hugely to economy (due to agriculture, mining, fishing, industry, services, or whatever), then government gives the area (and people living there) more facilities than areas that are not that economically active.

If University is coming from private sector than there is no need to follow rules, such as selecting population centers or looking at who is contributing what in taxes, rather private sector can select areas to locate Universities wherever they want to (anywhere private sectors likes), as money belongs to private sector and thus they have right to spend that money whatever way and wherever they want].

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Thanks for this informative post Saleem. but again areas, I mentioned (Dadu, Badin, etc) are petrol and gas rich and do contribute a lot to GDP of the country. But if you look at infrastructure and education in those areas, they are highly deprived parts of the country

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

You are right. Though I was talking about taxes and tax-payers, even revenue that government collects from oil and gas, though not direct contribution of people living in the area, should be spent to develop the area and provide facilities to people, where oil and gas revenue got generated.

It means, substantial part of revenue that government generates from 'oil and gas' activities in these areas should be used to uplift these area in form of infrastructures, facilities, various amenities, and to create jobs in these areas.

Actually, if such is not done then people in these areas would rightly feel exploited and thus get alienated. Such feelings can create hate and even desire to get independence.

It was same feelings of exploitation that alienated Bengalies from West Pakistan, and similar feelings since discovery of gas at Sui has alienated many Balochs from Pakistan who feel exploited (because instead of Balochs benefiting from gas discovery at Sui, for whatever reason, they were ignored).

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

^ I am sorry but the logic of spending by the government in response to tax generation is flawed.

You are suggesting that government should spend more in areas which generate more taxes. Thus the areas which are economically backwards, would always remain backwards because government would never spend on infrastructure there and they would either remain poor or migrate to areas with higher development. 'Normally' the government spending follows this path (not the other way around):

Investment ---> economic growth ---> increased tax revenue

The government spending should be determined based on the needs and POTENTIAL of the area, not current state of development. The situation of education is pathetic in interior Sindh and substantial resources and attention is needed to improve the situation there. Otherwise, people would continue migrating to Karachi, burdening the city even more.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

This government, however, is only interested in rewarding haram khor criminals… Conferring Honors: SU to grant PhD to premier Raja – The Express Tribune

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

Thirty two billion is the estimated revenue which comes to Pakistan through remittences. About 15 billion through official channels.. another 8 billion is brought as cash by visiting expatriates.. 8-9 billion dollars comes through hawala.

This resource can not be taxed. It contributes more than 10-12% of GDP and most of this money is in the hands of high income level group. When we compare our tax collection of 9% of GDP compared to India's 13%.. we tend to forget this major factor.

Already we have effective system in place where individuals can not buy property or vehicles or any major asset without declared resources. Any further attempt to squeeze more tax from the present system will prove disastrous for the economy.. as PTI guys are suggesting.

What needs to be done is put a plug on expenses. Presently about 2100 billion rupees are spent in three heads. About a trillion in interest payments.. 590 billion pepco loss, and another 500 billion in state corporation losses. Why we have to pay more than a trillion in interest payments.. because the fiscal deficit is 7/8% of GDP which has put pressure on interest rates. Our govt. is paying 12/13% interest on public debt. Even if Germany, UK, US or Japan have to pay this rate of interest on their public debt.. they will be in similar fiscal condition. Pepco losses are due to lobbies and subsidy to Captive generation. State corporation losses are due to corruption and incompetence.

If these three sectors can be managed (and I believe they are interrelated and can be managed very easily).. our fiscal deficit can come down to 4% if we can save even a trillion from these sectors. This will bring down interest rates to less than 5%.. reducing interest payments for the government... controlling massive inflation.. and release pressure on rupee which otherwise has very strong fundamentals.

We have a very strong real economy in Pakistan. We have a severe management problem....

If our government can save money from these three unproductive sectors.. they will have all this money spared for Universities. Moreover the GDP will start growing at a decent pace from dismal growth at the moment.. and this increase in cake can put extra resources at the disposal of government to invest on much needed infra structure.

It's all a vicious circle..

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

^ Not related to the thread but you are missing something very fundamental that hinders economic growth. We rely too much on indirect taxation (sales tax, tax deducted at source on electricity bills, etc. being the biggest examples) as opposed to direct taxation (income tax). The result is that our taxation system is not progressive, as it should be, and poorer people pay proportionately larger tax and those who should get away free. I know living examples where university professor (who gets 75% of his income tax reduced anyways being a teacher) pays more indirect tax than his brother who owns several shops in liberty market of Lahore. I have myself delivered millions of rupees to tax officials to get tax of businesses 'slashed' even when I was the junior most employee of a small tax consultancy in Pakistan.

A lot of the billionaires in Pakistan are 'landlords' or 'agriculturists' (as the members of parliament describe themselves on websites of provincial assemblies). They declare all their income as 'agricultural' income (if they ever submit a tax return), which is not taxed in Pakistan. I wonder who shoulders the burden of development expenditure in 'their' areas.

Anyways, as you pointed out, we have management issues, and please add our revenue management to it as well.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

If you ask me, keeping in view the population in Hyderabad maybe it's feasible to have a university there. And as muqawwee said that some universities are required in under developed areas of the province. I'll give the example of university of engineering and technology taxila (small town) although that university could have been set up in pindi or Islamabad which are 40 Kms away. By setting up a university in impoverished areas you are basically generating income for the regional areas plus providing the locals an opportunity to study and move forward. More universities are required in the country no doubt but none of the people running the show will create them.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

some quarters of the society are saying that the demand came as Urdu speaking students are not comfortable in studying in Sindh University due to hold of Sindhi nationalist parties. These politicians should address the actual issues of such students rather uttering bullsh!t like Pir Mazhar ul Haq regarding Sindh assembly being in Karachi and Karachi being in Sindh. And yes to as many universities in Pakistan as we can in all areas of Pakistan by giving priority to those areas which lack such institutes.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

^ well the universities can be created in tandem as well if the government wants. Pervaiz illahi in his past government created a lot of universities in Punjab and expanded some. Like one medical university was set up in Lahore and another for Sialkot (it also starte in Lahore but at some stage would move there). Competition also helps.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

has the Sindh government set up any university during the past 5 years in the public sector?

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

No, besides setting up some campus of BBA program in Dadu ( Pir Mazhar's constituency) and Khairpur (Qaim Ali Shah's constituency), I don't remember setting up any University in Public sector. They had started a medical college in Lyari Karachi, but last I heard that it was closed due to security concerns.

Re: No new university in Hyderabad

There was a television program the other day showing open cheating going on in BS, BA exams in Sakhhar and the college principal said, "why are you concentrating on Sakhhar only? There is cheating going on in Larkana, Dadu, etc as well... why don't you take your camera there?"

The same philosophy from PPP .... if someone else is a criminal, it is my right to be a criminal as well.