DAWN.COM | Front Page | Accord on free truck movement with Afghanistan
Well done on Pakistan. We got access to Central Asia. Afghanis our brothers got access to the Karachi Port.
Actually India had always planned to go to Afghanistan via the Saichin Glacier's "Scenic Route" :D
The smart and far sighted Inians always had that in mind when they grabbed the Saichin Glacier.............they never planned to use the dusty plains of Pakistan..............:)
Re: No Indian goods through Pakistan
its not like indian trucks would make it safely thru the khyber pass even if pakistani govt permitted this.
and indian goods will probably end up on the zaranj-delaram road that the indian govt built, via chahbahar.
This is very good on the part of Pak. Indian exports should have no place entering Pakistan for trade in Afghanistan...
I think India also built a toilet in Kandahar recently… Perhaps India’s good could end up there? 
This is very good on the part of Pak. Indian exports should have no place entering Pakistan for trade in Afghanistan...
Med sahib,
Why do you forget that Indian exports are already going to Afghanistan VIA Pak under Afghan transit trade, and they go tax free.
We are all for stopping Indian influence in the region, but your response is based on ignorance and utter lack of knowledge.
FYI Indian goods and movies are available in every major city of Pakistan, and Afghanistan.
Heck there are specific markets where Paks and afghans openly sell Indian goods.
As these goods are smuggled in from Afghanistan and from over the Punjab/Sindh border, we the Pak tax payers do not get to control them and we do not get any tax revenues.
And this is utter madness. Kawwa safaid hai, safaid hai, safaid hai. hahhahaha
Med sahib,
Why do you forget that Indian exports are already going to Afghanistan VIA Pak under Afghan transit trade, and they go tax free.
We are all for stopping Indian influence in the region, but your response is based on ignorance and utter lack of knowledge.
FYI Indian goods and movies are available in every major city of Pakistan, and Afghanistan.
Heck there are specific markets where Paks and afghans openly sell Indian goods.
As these goods are smuggled in from Afghanistan and from over the Punjab/Sindh border, we the Pak tax payers do not get to control them and we do not get any tax revenues.
And this is utter madness. Kawwa safaid hai, safaid hai, safaid hai. hahhahaha
Actually my response was a sarcastic reply to Queer Sahibs mention of the glorious highway his country built in Afghanistan...
It was meant more in jest, and I would suggest you replace your hypersensative moral indignation, with a sense of humor!
take care. :)
Actually my response was a sarcastic reply to Queer Sahibs mention of the glorious highway his country built in Afghanistan...
It was meant more in jest, and I would suggest you replace your hypersensative moral indignation, with a sense of humor! take care. :)
chalo ji. Aaap kehtay hain to theek he kehtay hon gay. :)
On the topic!
Indians must pull their troops off of Siachin while withdrawing from Jammu Kashmir.
However as Paks we must accept the reality that Indian goods have always been part of the culture of Pak and Af. Stopping them will not work.
Instead we need to allow their "legal import" and thus end the culture of criminality and smuggling that is so awfully associated with them.
chalo ji. Aaap kehtay hain to theek he kehtay hon gay. :)
On the topic!
Indians must pull their troops off of Siachin while withdrawing from Jammu Kashmir.
However as Paks we must accept the reality that Indian goods have always been part of the culture of Pak and Af. Stopping them will not work.
Instead we need to allow their "legal import" and thus end the culture of criminality and smuggling that is so awfully associated with them.
Certainly.. But most things Indian that make their way into Pakistan are black market items. Those items have always been around. Most Indian films you find for example are pirated. Im not against those products...:D
And I have no problem with Indian products entering Pakistani market so long as its part of a larger package which includes settlement of all outstanding issues.
As for products going to Afghanistan, well thats a different matter. India has been trying to flank us on the western side for quite a while. Even if it hasnt been its open policy, we still cant allow an enemy to surround us.
Allowing Indians access to Afghanistan will increase their influence. It may well happen whether we give them access through Paksitan or not, but we certainly shouldnt be aiding in the process. Not unless we can manage to settle whatever grievances we have, and India ceases to be a threat to Pak intrests or security.
Certainly.. But most things Indian that make their way into Pakistan are black market items. ....
You gotta understand that Indians MAKE money on black market products
pakistanis PAY money to buy those black market products.
Pak Taxpayers LOSE money when black market items are sold in the country.
So it is a LOSS LOSS situation by not legalizing and taxing the products sold in Pak markets.
Got it?
Burying head in the sand is not going to help.
......... As for products going to Afghanistan, well thats a different matter. India has been trying to flank us on the western side for quite a while. Even if it hasnt been its open policy, we still cant allow an enemy to surround us. Allowing Indians access to Afghanistan will increase their influence.....
Again. You ought to study a bit of "Afghan Transit Trade agreement", between Pak and Af.
As per that agreement, we do not open the containers and we do not tax the imports. Those containers off load in Karachi and go to Jalalabad and then end up back in Pak markets all the way from Peshawar to Karachi.
In some instances those containers do not even leave Karachi.
And what is in those containers? Goods EXPORTED from India and other countries.
That's why we must quit our "hut dharmi" and main na maanoon and Kawa safaid hai mentality and recognize that Indian products are being exported to Pak and Af.
Indian government and Indian industry makes money in any case,
But Pak taxpayers lose BIG time.
It is time to quit bowla-pun and see the light of the day.
^^Who controls these black markets? Most probably gangsters and terrorists like the taliban right?? These guys would be the ones collecting taxes right now. Would they give up their share of the money to the Pakistani govt that easily??
^^Who controls these black markets? Most probably gangsters and terrorists like the taliban right?? ...
FYI. Gangsters on BOTH sides of the border are involved in the illegal trade.
Not sure if Taliban can control any large part of this trade at the moment.
On Punjab/Sindh border, smugglers are obviously non-Talib Indians and Pakistanis.
On Af - Pak border, the smugglers are local criminals and they may be allied with Taliban on the "need to get protection" basis.
Both the countries must recognize and then legalize this trade.
For example, Indian government for religious reasons, is not allowing open export of cows for the meat markets of Pak.
Guess what? the smugglers cowboys bring "live cows" across the Punjab/Sindh border and hand them over to Pakistani counter parts.
Similarly Pak government has banned open import of liquor.
So! the Indian smugglers bring truck loads of liquor to the border and Pakistani side of smugglers move that stuff from the border to the cities.
When India, Afghanistan, and Central Asian republics suffers from bad harvest of food crops, Pakistani smugglers ship truckloads of illegal rice, wheat and wheat flour to the neighboring countries.
These are but few examples of the religious and nationalistic madness that turns ordinary trade into black market trade.
Sadly!
And Pakistani taxpayers lose big time. (and perhaps Indian taxpayers too).
Re: No Indian goods through Pakistan
Pakistani taxpayers
No offence but isn't that an oxymoron?
This is very good on the part of Pak. Indian exports should have no place entering Pakistan for trade in Afghanistan...
This is such a silly and sophomoric notion. I don't know if you're being jovial, or serious. I'm assuming you're serious.
I'm not sure what the downside is for Pakistan. It stands to make millions in transit fees, millions in fees to security companies, millions in warehousing fees, and a fairly large employment base for Pakistani trucking operations. Really, what am I missing here?
Pakistani markets are flooded with Indian goods already, albeit through the black market. The Indian economy is huge, and the cost of rerouting is going to be marginal. Why not legitimize the existing trade and let legitimate operations and the Pakistani government make money?
You gotta understand that Indians MAKE money on black market products pakistanis PAY money to buy those black market products.
Pak Taxpayers LOSE money when black market items are sold in the country.
So it is a LOSS LOSS situation by not legalizing and taxing the products sold in Pak markets.
Got it?
Burying head in the sand is not going to help.
Again. You ought to study a bit of "Afghan Transit Trade agreement", between Pak and Af.
As per that agreement, we do not open the containers and we do not tax the imports. Those containers off load in Karachi and go to Jalalabad and then end up back in Pak markets all the way from Peshawar to Karachi.
In some instances those containers do not even leave Karachi.
And what is in those containers? Goods EXPORTED from India and other countries.
That's why we must quit our "hut dharmi" and main na maanoon and Kawa safaid hai mentality and recognize that Indian products are being exported to Pak and Af.
Indian government and Indian industry makes money in any case,
But Pak taxpayers lose BIG time.
It is time to quit bowla-pun and see the light of the day.
And how exactly do Indians profit from black market items being sold in Pak?
The money goes to everyone but those who produced them items.
Thats why piracy and black market activity is illegal, as it doesnt profit anyone other then the person selling the black market item in question.
If legal Indian exports are getting in to the country under the noses of the govt, then it should be them we should be going after. Just because its occuring, doesnt mean its right. We should oppose the deal on that basis alone.
I recognize that Indian products are in Pakistan, it doesnt take a genius to figure that out thanks.
But allowing them full access will provide them with an avenue to increase their influence even further. Its simply not smart politics.
If they have access through Pakistan despite this block, then we should make an effort to stop those exports.
Either way, we shouldnt allow any access to Afghanistan through Pak territory.
This is such a silly and sophomoric notion. I don't know if you're being jovial, or serious. I'm assuming you're serious. I'm not sure what the downside is for Pakistan. It stands to make millions in transit fees, millions in fees to security companies, millions in warehousing fees, and a fairly large employment base for Pakistani trucking operations. Really, what am I missing here? Pakistani markets are flooded with Indian goods already, albeit through the black market. The Indian economy is huge, and the cost of rerouting is going to be marginal. Why not legitimize the existing trade and let legitimate operations and the Pakistani government make money?
Just taking Pakistan's security needs in hand. Study a little history and you might learn a thing or two. There is a long standing hostility displayed towards Pakistan from both India and Afghanistan.
Should we blindly turn our gaze from our security needs? What your missing is that Pakistan has genuine security concerns.
We simply cant allow Indians to influence the Afghans in a way that will be a detrimental to Pakistans long term security needs.
Any cooperation with Indians should be hand in hand with a genuine peace deal that resoves long standing issues.
To not understand the obvious here is ridiculous and just shows your completely naive.
Pak govt did the right thing by not allowing Indians access.
And as they rightfully stated, any such agreement will only be reached in direct negotiations with India. Which the Indians dont want.
FYI. Gangsters on BOTH sides of the border are involved in the illegal trade.
Not sure if Taliban can control any large part of this trade at the moment.
On Punjab/Sindh border, smugglers are obviously non-Talib Indians and Pakistanis.
On Af - Pak border, the smugglers are local criminals and they may be allied with Taliban on the "need to get protection" basis.
Both the countries must recognize and then legalize this trade.
For example, Indian government for religious reasons, is not allowing open export of cows for the meat markets of Pak.
Guess what? the smugglers cowboys bring "live cows" across the Punjab/Sindh border and hand them over to Pakistani counter parts.
Similarly Pak government has banned open import of liquor.
So! the Indian smugglers bring truck loads of liquor to the border and Pakistani side of smugglers move that stuff from the border to the cities.
When India, Afghanistan, and Central Asian republics suffers from bad harvest of food crops, Pakistani smugglers ship truckloads of illegal rice, wheat and wheat flour to the neighboring countries.
These are but few examples of the religious and nationalistic madness that turns ordinary trade into black market trade.
Sadly!
And Pakistani taxpayers lose big time. (and perhaps Indian taxpayers too).
Dude, any idiot with even a basic understanding of economics can grasp this issue. Tade= money! Big surprise.
The issue here is one of politics. Unless the Indians decide its time to resolve the issues, which include Kashmir foremost, there cannot be and should not be any economic cooperation. Up to now there has been absolutely no sign of any form of cooperation on the part of Indians. Even prior to the Mumbai attacks, we had absolutely no movement on any of the key issues. It was honestly getting ridiculous.
And to think we would give them access to Afghanistan through Pak territory is beyond stupid. Its one thing to give the enemy access to the Pakistani Market, but to give them easy access to another neighbor which has a history of hostility towards Pak!
We might as well shoot ourselves in the foot.
...... Either way, we shouldnt allow any access to Afghanistan through Pak territory.
Med bhai,
Did you take your meds today? Looks like you are ignoring all the info related to Pak-Af history and trade. Why?
Pakistan under international law to provide Afghanistan with an access to a seaport. It is called Afghan Transit Trade agreement. If we stop Afghan imports, it will be akin to economic blockade and thus a hostile action. Got it?
Med bhai,
Did you take your meds today? Looks like you are ignoring all the info related to Pak-Af history and trade. Why?
Pakistan under international law to provide Afghanistan with an access to a seaport. It is called Afghan Transit Trade agreement. If we stop Afghan imports, it will be akin to economic blockade and thus a hostile action. Got it?
Burqa bhai.. Does that Burqa allow adequate oxygen intake? You seem a little beleaguered here.
Are you saying that we have no choice but to allow Indians access through Pakistan to Afghanistan? Basically we have forfeited our national interest for the sake of Afghanistans imports? Are you kidding me! You are saying that we basically have no legal control over who uses Pakistan territory for trade with third party! Thats insane... I think you should go back and reexamine this treaty.
We should by all means facilitate Afghan trade, and that is exaclty what the Pak govt has done. The Afghans HAVE been given access to our ports. Their trucks are allowed to enter PAKISTAN. Infact, that was one of the rationals behind the entire Gwadar port remember. To allow Afghanistan and the other Central Asian countries access to Pak ports.
But we simply wont allow Indians access to Afghanistan through Pak territory. That doesnt mean the door is closed on this issue. The Pak govt has said that its an issue that will be taken up with India.
Another words, issues wuch as the use of Pakistani territory of Indian exports is an issue that will be taken up when India decides to restart talks.
Since the Indians arent willing to do so, they will simply have to find other avenues for their exports.
And Like I said before, facilitating Indian exports to Afghanistan will allow the Indians to increase their influence over the Afghans.
What the heck do youthink will happen after the Americans leave and we have a hostile India to our East and hostile Afghanistan to our West???
I know its in vogue these days to view Pakistanis as terrorists etc with no sense, and the Indians as a BENIGN force that only wants to help everyone they can including those poor Afghans, but some of us have to live in the real world my friend. Some of us actally have to consider Pakistan security in light of reality. Thank god the Pak govt is reality based and fantasy based.
And Like I said before, facilitating Indian exports to Afghanistan will allow the Indians to increase their influence over the Afghans. What the heck do youthink will happen after the Americans leave and we have a hostile India to our East and hostile Afghanistan to our West???
you don't know any afghans, do you? you are faced with a hostile india and a hostile afghanistan already. if you can tie their prosperity with yours, it is only going to ease matters. but yes, such moves are only possible when all three governments actually have control over the areas they call their own. for now, a beleaguered PPP govt accused of being soft on india uses this to posture as being aggressive against india, but bottomline is this was expected. afghanistan has been requesting a land link with india for 60 years now, with the same result. big surprise now..