Re: No automatic citizenship for kids born in U.S. to illegal immigrants article
well yoiur should have said legal presence versus RESIDENTS.
as far as protection of 14th ammendment, the ammendment was written for slaves, and did not actually even cover native americans at that time. if you go by the text of the 14th ammenment it would almost make it seem that by that token someone who gets citizenship by birth in US can not be citizen of another place.
Later statements from the author of the 14th ammendment were that the ammendment was written specifically for slaves, and the fact that it did not even cover native americans further proves that point. Then native americans were added, and at the time that children of other ppl present in US were included, it did not address the issue of legal or illegal people, let alone resident or non resident, so it is a grey area.
14th ammenment does not apply to diplomats either, although they are in the country legally. To be frank, this is a topic that has not been discussed much. even the issue of illegal immigrants have not really been ratified by the supreme court. I guess they have bigger issues to deal with for now.
words from the author fo 14th ammendment...Senator Howard
"This amendment which I have clarified is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already..[It] does not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of person. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States"
I agree. UK did this a while back. US needs to do it as well.
It should not just be limited to illegal immigrants but also ppl who are here on temporary visas F1, H1, J1.. but should be eligible for US citizenship when parents get it.
i disagree with the second one, like i'm on H1 and kid born here, my country don't give her a citizenship because she is not born there and if usa also don't give her citizenship , then when we want to travel back to india then which passport she has to use
and i'm here to help the USA fullfill their economy needs, and i'm paying tax here
there are some countries they do the same
i disagree with the second one, like i'm on H1 and kid born here, my country don't give her a citizenship because she is not born there and if usa also don't give her citizenship , then when we want to travel back to india then which passport she has to use
While. of course, I agree with your point that even folks who are on temporary visas in the US, and have kids born here, these kids should get an automatic right to get US citizenship; let me clarify that this is still up to the parents. If you are an Indian or Pakistani citizen and you have a child born ANY WHERE in the world, you can have your child get the Indian or Pakistani (respectively) citizenship and passport. You should contact your embassy and they will give you the required forms to fill out.
I know a few cases, where parents holding Pakistani passports had a child born in the US; and these parents decided they do not want to have US passport for their child (they were shias and were convinced that a US passport will just cause problems when they go for ziarats in Iran and Iraq - preoccupation). They got their kids Pakistani passports without a problem.
X2, thanks for the enlightenment, but its not clear from all that why you would argue that people who are LEGALLY in the US on temporary visas should be denied automatic US citizenship for their kids. Zaati pasand na-pasand apni jagga and its probably your personal dislike to have these kids have US passport, but I don't think there is any issue that has arisen because of this. There is nothing in the 14th Amendment that disallows that, there is no one raising this as an undue burden on US economy or law and order or any other issue. Why fix something that ain't broke?
While. of course, I agree with your point that even folks who are on temporary visas in the US, and have kids born here, these kids should get an automatic right to get US citizenship; let me clarify that this is still up to the parents. If you are an Indian or Pakistani citizen and you have a child born ANY WHERE in the world, you can have your child get the Indian or Pakistani (respectively) citizenship and passport. You should contact your embassy and they will give you the required forms to fill out.
I know a few cases, where parents holding Pakistani passports had a child born in the US; and these parents decided they do not want to have US passport for their child (they were shias and were convinced that a US passport will just cause problems when they go for ziarats in Iran and Iraq - preoccupation). They got their kids Pakistani passports without a problem.
X2, thanks for the enlightenment, but its not clear from all that why you would argue that people who are LEGALLY in the US on temporary visas should be denied automatic US citizenship for their kids. Zaati pasand na-pasand apni jagga and its probably your personal dislike to have these kids have US passport, but I don't think there is any issue that has arisen because of this. There is nothing in the 14th Amendment that disallows that, there is no one raising this as an undue burden on US economy or law and order or any other issue. Why fix something that ain't broke?
thing is most of the indians stay on Green Card, because India don't have dual citizenships, most of them earn here and invest in India, Foreginers can't buy a land in India, so many stay on GC
While. of course, I agree with your point that even folks who are on temporary visas in the US, and have kids born here, these kids should get an automatic right to get US citizenship; let me clarify that this is still up to the parents. If you are an Indian or Pakistani citizen and you have a child born ANY WHERE in the world, you can have your child get the Indian or Pakistani (respectively) citizenship and passport. You should contact your embassy and they will give you the required forms to fill out.
I know a few cases, where parents holding Pakistani passports had a child born in the US; and these parents decided they do not want to have US passport for their child (they were shias and were convinced that a US passport will just cause problems when they go for ziarats in Iran and Iraq - preoccupation). They got their kids Pakistani passports without a problem.
X2, thanks for the enlightenment, but its not clear from all that why you would argue that people who are LEGALLY in the US on temporary visas should be denied automatic US citizenship for their kids. Zaati pasand na-pasand apni jagga and its probably your personal dislike to have these kids have US passport, but I don't think there is any issue that has arisen because of this. There is nothing in the 14th Amendment that disallows that, there is no one raising this as an undue burden on US economy or law and order or any other issue. Why fix something that ain't broke?
its more than zaati passand, the 14th ammendment needs to be addressed, that much we have agreed on because currently illegals kids are getting the protection of it, and if you are going to discuss it, might as well go to the intent of it and go from there. there is nothing in the 14th ammendment that allows it either, going back to when the ammendment was written is needed and supreme court has to directly address it, and so far they have shied away, additionally there are constitutional issues with 14th ammendment which is a whole diff story.
currently 14th ammendment allows illegals kids to get citizenship too, and you are opposed to it, is that zaati passand or na passand as well? is it your personal dislike to have these kids have US passports?
now as far as an issue, an issue MAY not have arisen here, but it has been experienced by many other countries. learning from your own mistakes is smart, learning from others mistakes is smarter.
thing is most of the indians stay on Green Card, because India don't have dual citizenships, most of them earn here and invest in India, Foreginers can't buy a land in India, so many stay on GC
that issue should be resolved now because of the Overseas Citizenship of India act (OCI), and from my understanding even now people who have become US citizens and have PIO card can own property in India
, my country don't give her a citizenship because she is not born there
so indian citizens kids who are born abroad dont get indian citizenship? I know Indian kids born in UK who were not eligible for Uk citizenship because the parents were not of a legal status to have the kids get citizenship, and the kids got Indian citizenship, passport teh whole nine yards.
that issue should be resolved now because of the Overseas Citizenship of India act (OCI), and from my understanding even now people who have become US citizens and have PIO card can own property in India
so indian citizens kids who are born abroad dont get indian citizenship? I know Indian kids born in UK who were not eligible for Uk citizenship because the parents were not of a legal status to have the kids get citizenship, and the kids got Indian citizenship, passport teh whole nine yards.
how is this any different?
Kids who are born in USA don't get OCI, they get only PIO card
even if you get OCI, you are not allowed to buy a agriculture land and occupy a public office, its just kind of visa without expiry date
and PIO card is valid for 15 yrs and if you want to stay in india for more then 6 months you need to report at nearest police station
my second one is just a example, even in japan, singapore, sweden, kids get based on what their parents have
Re: No automatic citizenship for kids born in U.S. to illegal immigrants article
so from an indian citizenshhip perspective, what is the status of the kids born in UK of Indian workers on temp visas there and thus making their kids ineligible for UK citizenship?
from what it seems if an Indian citizen's child is born overseas and is in a situation that the kid is not going to get the citizenship of that country then teh kid will get indian citizenship.
so your point in post #22 is not valid. because the kids that I am noting who were not eleigible from british citizenship, travelled to india on their indian passport.
its more than zaati passand, the 14th ammendment needs to be addressed, that much we have agreed on because currently illegals kids are getting the protection of it, and if you are going to discuss it, might as well go to the intent of it and go from there. there is nothing in the 14th ammendment that allows it either, going back to when the ammendment was written is needed and supreme court has to directly address it, and so far they have shied away, additionally there are constitutional issues with 14th ammendment which is a whole diff story.
currently 14th ammendment allows illegals kids to get citizenship too, and you are opposed to it, is that zaati passand or na passand as well? is it your personal dislike to have these kids have US passports?
Wrong. The issue of benefits for illegal aliens is a very hot topic in California. Also in most border states - Arizona, Texas etc. Talk radio (not just Lou Dobbs) is full of this very discussion whether it makes sense for the state to fund education and health benefits of kids born to illegal aliens. This issue is more touchy because in most cases, their parents contribute nothing in terms of taxes. And perhaps most importantly, because these days (due to recession) state's coffers are not over-flowing like old days, and people are looking for ways to cut spending. So this thing is under a severe microscope here.
now as far as an issue, an issue MAY not have arisen here, but it has been experienced by many other countries. learning from your own mistakes is smart, learning from others mistakes is smarter.
About the only argument I have read here is women traveling late in their pregnancy to get their kids a US passport. Unhealthy as it may seem, this is a choice people make, and while we may pooh-pooh their choices, I don't see this as a huge issue worth debating. Worst case, automatic citizenship can be denied to those parents who are purely on visit status (B1/B2 etc).
Wrong. The issue of benefits for illegal aliens is a very hot topic in California. Also in most border states - Arizona, Texas etc. Talk radio (not just Lou Dobbs) is full of this very discussion whether it makes sense for the state to fund education and health benefits of kids born to illegal aliens. This issue is more touchy because in most cases, their parents contribute nothing in terms of taxes. And perhaps most importantly, because these days (due to recession) state's coffers are not over-flowing like old days, and people are looking for ways to cut spending. So this thing is under a severe microscope here.
actually not wrong, The point was if we are going to accept 14th ammendment as it is currently understood then illegals are covered. live with it.
but if we are going to open the issue of reviewing the applicability of the 14th ammendment for illegals, then we have to look at it for non permanent residents as well.
and thsi is before one goes into the constitutional issues with 14th ammendment and how it was passed, which is a whole diff topic
so from an indian citizenshhip perspective, what is the status of the kids born in UK of Indian workers on temp visas there and thus making their kids ineligible for UK citizenship?
from what it seems if an Indian citizen's child is born overseas and is in a situation that the kid is not going to get the citizenship of that country then teh kid will get indian citizenship.
so your point in post #22 is not valid. because the kids that I am noting who were not eleigible from british citizenship, travelled to india on their indian passport.
22 is just an example, i though there may be some countries which give citizenship only if they born there
take the example of Lakshmi Mittal (4th richest in the world), he still holds Indian passport and citizenship, although he is a resident of UK for many years
actually not wrong, The point was if we are going to accept 14th ammendment as it is currently understood then illegals are covered. live with it.
but if we are going to open the issue of reviewing the applicability of the 14th ammendment for illegals, then we have to look at it for non permanent residents as well.
and thsi is before one goes into the constitutional issues with 14th ammendment and how it was passed, which is a whole diff topic
This discussion is similar to a discussion we had here on GS not too long ago about illegal immigrants. My views are consistent. Do not condone illegal behavior. Whether that means giving them amnesty or by awarding their kids automatic citizenship and benefits (education, health etc). But I contrast them with those who are in the US legally (student, worker etc). These ppl have broken no laws and in most cases are productive contributors in society (workers pay taxes, students pay tuition etc), so they should not be penalized for any 14th amendment revision that is carried out to penalize illegal immigrants.
By the way, personally, I don't have a problem revising 14th amendment, but in the current political climate, I think any measure that attempts to amend the US constitution is a very very long shot. Thats just the reality of it. Partisan politics will make sure nothing gets done. So we are kinda limited to just gupshup on this issue, which is exactly what we are doing. :)
But ppl on f1 are non resident aliens. A huge number goes back. F1 does not mean citizenship. Same for h1.
Maybe 5-10% of the students go back, but almost all the H1Bs apply for GCs and stay here, and the backlogs dating uptil 2001-2002 support that theory. What you said in my opinion should hold true for visitors only.
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I don't see any impact to h1 holders kids.
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I could give you some links of tales of frustration and anger I came across of immigration portal discussion forums, which will surely prove to you that it does impact them seriously.