Islam, people, is about following the teachings of the quran - that is the be all and end all!!!
Mehndi erm shafi and hanafi aren't different sects of islam - i think that you are confused!!
If you start adding things to the islamic faith then you are no better than christians whose bible is aboput as pure NOW as white cotton during holi- no???
I am not having a go at anyone!! i am not the most pius of muslim and i admit that - but ALLAH is the most gracefull the most forgiving!!!!
Islam, people, is about following the teachings of the quran - that is the be all and end all!!!
Mehndi erm shafi and hanafi aren't different sects of islam - i think that you are confused!!
And the tabliban is not a sect of islam either!!!
If you start adding things to the islamic faith then you are no better than christians whose bible is aboput as pure NOW as white cotton during holi- no???
I am not having a go at anyone!! i am not the most pius of muslim and i admit that - but ALLAH is the most gracefull the most forgiving!!!!
Micky. I did not encase my response in any mumbo jumbo. My point is clear. He HAS posed for photographs, whether in or out of Afghanistan, and that is hypocrisy on his part. It wouldnt matter if they werent 'imposing' their version of Islam on everyone in Afghanistan....but since the taliban are doing exactly that, imposing islam on others, it makes it not islamic, but political. Islam is to be adopted willfully. If enforced upon your subjects, its useless.
And if their hard brand of islam doesnt allow the presence of statues, or even the transfer of those statues out of the country(which would accomplish the same result as would demolishing them), then they should maintain the same hard brand when posing for cameras, or even coming in the vicinity of them.
The label of 'mullah' or 'khalifa' or 'muslim' does not automatically make you the best of the best. You have to show it with your actions. I am not close to being the best of the best, and hence i dont display or pronounce it to the world. But the taliban do all that....which is why their character is scrutinized the way it is. If they dont want scrutiny, they should practice islam in its noble form, and not make a hoopla about it by making political moves such as demolishing statues, expelling diplomats, expelling news reporters, shaving peoples heads or cutting their hands and parading them around town, and then publishing the severed hands photos in newspapers.
[quote]
Originally posted by Vicky!:
**Islam, people, is about following the teachings of the quran - that is the be all and end all!!!
Mehndi erm shafi and hanafi aren't different sects of islam - i think that you are confused!!
And the tabliban is not a sect of islam either!!!
If you start adding things to the islamic faith then you are no better than christians whose bible is aboput as pure NOW as white cotton during holi- no???
I am not having a go at anyone!! i am not the most pius of muslim and i admit that - but ALLAH is the most gracefull the most forgiving!!!!**
[/quote]
just to clarify a point.. i was referring to different interpretations of Islam (not directing it to a sect or a fiqh)
-mehndi
[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
Micky. I did not encase my response in any mumbo jumbo. My point is clear. He HAS posed for photographs, whether in or out of Afghanistan, and that is hypocrisy on his part.
You can’t prove that he has posed for pictures. He is not looking into the camera. He is not smiling at the cameraman. In fact he is not smiling at all. Then why make false allegations to prove nonsense means?
One of the Leader of Taliban picture was taking while praying in Islamabad office, are you going to say that he posed for that also? Come on, its truly ridiculous for someone to criticize Taliban rule/government for others actions inside the country or outside the country.
It wouldnt matter if they werent 'imposing' their version of Islam on everyone in Afghanistan....but since the taliban are doing exactly that, imposing islam on others, it makes it not islamic, but political.
Its their country, their rule is Shariah so is their government, if you don’t like it, move to some where else.
Islam is to be adopted willfully. If enforced upon your subjects, its useless.
I can see that. I can really see that these days in one country. Even after so many years under Islam, they still feel for Idolism.
And if their hard brand of islam doesnt allow the presence of statues, or even the transfer of those statues out of the country (which would accomplish the same result as would demolishing them)
I answered that for in the other thread. You might want to read it.
then they should maintain the same hard brand when posing for cameras, or even coming in the vicinity of them.
No one can prove that they have posed for cameras. If you can, then please do so.
If someone took my picture while sitting next to you even when it is against my beliefs, do you expect me to run after that person and brake his camera or the person head?
And if they do that, then the same hypocrites will call them barbaric.
The label of 'mullah' or 'khalifa' or 'muslim' does not automatically make you the best of the best.
I’m not the one saying that, nor do the Taliban say that they are the best of the best.
People who assume such things about others should be taken in consideration in regarding the matter of wanting to be the best of the best. They will even go to far lengths to prove one wrong, when that one is trying hard to be the purest and the closest to their lord.
You have to show it with your actions. I am not close to being the best of the best, and hence i dont display or pronounce it to the world. But the taliban do all that.
When and how are the Taliban “do” that?
It is the media that made them Heros because of their past history and their courage to stand against superpowers. Not them, they wish and are trying to be the loyalist to Allah (swt) but they certainly don’t brag about what you are saying.
...which is why their character is scrutinized the way it is.
I consider that “scrutinizing” pure jealousy my brother. The only people that are scrutinizing Taliban are in someway feeling inferior. It’s a mere fact!
they should practice islam in its noble form,
At least they are trying. You have to give them credit for that.
and not make a hoopla about it by making political moves such as demolishing statues
political moves? Please answer my thread in religion forum title “Where does it say in Quran..” regarding this.
expelling diplomats, expelling news reporters,
When did Taliban claimed that to be Islamic?
shaving peoples heads or cutting their hands and parading them around town and then publishing the severed hands photos in newspapers.
Rawa is not Taliban, it was them who published the pictures of hand cuts.
Shaving heads? They were warned three times. How much warning do you need to get something straight?
[/quote]
[This message has been edited by ~Mickey~ (edited March 15, 2001).]
This was not the first, and wont be the last photograph that you see of this gentleman. You can fish out loopholes in order to prove that this picture was taken without him knowing, but I bet you would have a hard time proving that regarding all the other pictures of him. Anyway, my issue was not with photography. It was with double standards.
*Its their country, their rule is Shariah so is their government, if you don’t like it, move to some where else. *
Thats a weak argument. Besides, even during the Prophet SAW time, Islam was the way of life and government. Can you cite any instance where Prophet SAW imposed Islam on his subjects? There are strict guidelines regarding dealing with nonmuslims in a muslim state, and the taleban, while maybe fine in dealing with muslims, are far from what they should do while dealing with non muslims.
*I can see that. I can really see that these days in one country. Even after so many years under Islam, they still feel for Idolism. *
I guess this was in reference to Pakistan. And how you came up with the conclusion that those opposing this demolition are 'feeling for idolism' beats me. Regardless, I have spoken widely against the hypocrisy of the world which sneers at the dying Afghani population, yet screams at statue demolition. However, that does not take away from the erratic nature of the talebans actions. Their actions were merely meant to spite the world, nothing else.
I consider that “scrutinizing” pure jealousy my brother. The only people that are scrutinizing Taliban are in someway feeling inferior.
Jealousy regarding what? jealousy for muslims or non muslims? what do muslims have to jealous of? that the taleban are exploiting Islam so brazenly? what do non muslims have to be jealous of? years of inhouse fighting and hunger death and famine? top that with forceful imposition of Allahs deen which is exclusively meant for those who believe, NOT those who are scared of their government.
Shaving heads? They were warned three times. How much warning do you need to get something straight?
I figure we both are talking about the same incident here.....Pakistan football team. And ur comment is that they were warned three times for what? to wear long johns while playing football? Please. Or is this an islamic law that I dont know about?
I find the argument that Mr Taliban FM did not allow the pics and these were taken without his permission, very weak.
If a person deliberately tries to ensure that no pic is taken of him, with or without permission, he will succeed. The prime example is the own Supreme Leader of Talibaan, of whom not a single pic is published anywhere, and he meets international dignitories many times in a week. Its just a matter of principle.
They allow their FM to be photographed, for whatever reason, and you can argue endlessly that he wasn’t smiling, he wasn’t looking, but the fact is that he doesn’t mind, and hence gives tacit or overt approval. Don’t defend the defenceless!
Case Closed!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
This is part of CNN’s coverage of Buddha statues, as published today on their website:
So, they actually believe taking pics is not permissible, but allow their FM to be photographed, perhaps under the (infamous) doctrine of necessity?
Secondly, here is what CNN reported further:
So take it easy, all of you, who are worried that rights of minorities are being usurped!
[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
**If i am to trust muslims blindly, then no, I dont do that. Allah SWT says it clearly enough in the Quran, that we are to verify each and every piece of information that is passed to us, and not follow or believe in it blindly.
whatever they are doing.. their motives are just..
Thats where we disagee. If their motives were fair, they would be uniform in their approach. However, they have chosen scenarios merely to spite the world, muslim or non-muslim. If Islam were the only priority, these things would have been done 4 years ago. To do them periodically is akin to Bill Clinton bombing Iraq whenever a monica lewinskly scandal comes up....merely to divert attention, or to spite the opposition.
and be proud that there are muslims out there who are striving to restore Islam from the pathetic state it has gotten into..
why would u think that Islam is in a pathetic state? are talibans the only good muslims left in this world? is it that if a person is not following talebans style of islam that he is not a good muslim? There are over a billion muslims in this world, and im sure there are a few of them who are better tahan the taleba, and are working hard in other positive ways to help the cause of Islam .
Now, since you are one of those people who condemn Islam... let me ask you this, are you following Islam correctly and fully..?
I dont know where you draw the conclusion about me condemning Islam, but I never claimed to be a perfect muslimin anyway. But the taleban sure do claim that. Dont try to mislead by saying that I condemn Islam. I do not even condemn taleban. I simply dont agree with this act of theirs. It was foolish and selfish and political....not islamic.
** I'm sure they are following Islam more than you are... Have u done something for your own country and religion..? **
You bet I have..but I dont need to itemize it.
As for taleban, im not anti-taleban...im against the certain steps they take in the name of islam, when their motives are clearly political...akin to the shia sunni shootings that take place in pakistan all the time. They too are not religious...they are political issues. A name doesnt mean anything. You could call yourself sipahe sahaba, or taleban, or fiqah jaafria....if ur actions dont comply with the core of Islam, you are engaged in politics. Thats fine, as long as you present it as politics. Dont display politics and try to pass it off as Islam.**
[/quote]
i think Pristine left something out :'
Meanwhile, the Taleban ordered the slaughter of 100 cows Thursday as atonement for taking so long to destroy the Buddha statues since coming into power more than four years ago.
The movement's Voice of Shariat radio said its supreme leader Mullah Mohammad Omar had ordered the slaughter of 12 cows in the capital Kabul and at least three each in 29 other Taleban-held provincial capitals.
"For any delay ... made in the demolition of statues in Afghanistan, 100 cows will be sacrificed as a recompense," the radio's Persian-language program said in a broadcast monitored in Islamabad.
so they werent "totally Un-aware of it"
here's the whole article:
Taleban answers critics of Buddha demolition
March 15, 2001
Web posted at: 7:32 p.m. EST (0032 GMT)
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Afghanistan's Taleban rulers say it is unfair for the rest of the world to criticize the demolition of all statues of Buddha in their country.
"We are not breaking these statues as a move against the Buddhists," Taleban spokesman Abdul Hai Mutmain said in a statement released to CNN on Thursday. "We do not have a single Buddhist who worshipped these statues in Afghanistan."
"Therefore, if people are so offended around there world, it is not fair. The presence of statues is like a rock in our country that belongs to Afghanistan, and therefore concerns an internal matter," the spokesman for the strict fundamentalist Muslim movement said.
Outrage has echoed around the world since Taleban officials announced last month they would destroy all Buddha statuary. New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art offered to buy and pay for the removal of the carvings, including the huge Buddhas carved into a mountain in the central province of Bamiyan.
But Mutmain said it was shameful for people to worship idols carved from stone. He said Islam was a progressive religion and "it was for the sake of progress that the idols were destroyed."
Meanwhile, the Taleban ordered the slaughter of 100 cows Thursday as atonement for taking so long to destroy the Buddha statues since coming into power more than four years ago.
The movement's Voice of Shariat radio said its supreme leader Mullah Mohammad Omar had ordered the slaughter of 12 cows in the capital Kabul and at least three each in 29 other Taleban-held provincial capitals.
"For any delay ... made in the demolition of statues in Afghanistan, 100 cows will be sacrificed as a recompense," the radio's Persian-language program said in a broadcast monitored in Islamabad.
Afghanistan's history is a rich blend of cultures and religions because the country was a key stop on the legendary Silk Road routes between China and Central Asia.
"People say that this is historical heritage of Afghanistan," said Mutmain, "but on the contrary ... it is an act of shame to have these idols."
The Taleban want to remove any reminders of the centuries before Islam when Afghanistan was a center of Buddhist learning and pilgrimage.
The group's spiritual leaders say that Islam forbids the making of images such as pictures and paintings of people.
Afghanistan still has a relatively large Hindu and Sikh population, although hundreds fled between 1992 and 1996 when warring Islamic factions which threw out the communists destroyed much of Kabul.
The Taleban -- which since 1996 has controlled more than 90 percent of Afghanistan -- has allowed Hindus and Sikhs to practice their religions.
Taleban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil told reporters Wednesday in the Afghan capital Kabul that idols worshiped by the country's small Hindu minority had been spared.
CNN Stringer Kamal Hyder and Reuters contributed to this report.
talk about an emotional news story:
Expulsion reflects Taleban anger
By Baqer Moin of the BBC Persian/Pashto Section.
The Taleban authorities in Afghanistan have asked the BBC correspondent in Kabul to leave.
The move is being seen as a reflection the Taleban’s anger with the BBC for reporting growing international and internal criticism following the destruction of Buddha statues in Bamiyan, central Afghanistan.
The condemnation for their destruction of the ancient Buddhist monuments had been almost universal.
Western accusations of cultural vandalism were only to be expected, but even the more militant Muslim scholars who supported their closure of girls’ schools and their restrictions on Afghan women, have refused to support this latest action.
Powerful symbol
Leading Afghans who welcomed their emergence in 1996 in the hope of peace and stability have accused the Taleban of ignorance and lack of respect for Afghanistan’s cultural heritage and identity.
The destruction of the Bamiyan statues is an extremely powerful symbol in the minds of ordinary Afghans.
Despite their poverty and the damage wrought by 20 years of civil war, they retain a fierce pride in Afghanistan’s cultural heritage and the Bamiyan statues represent a distant period in which Afghanistan was the focus of a flourishing culture.
We do not know how the Taleban decided on the expulsion of the BBC Kabul correspondent, but one possible reason is that Kate Clark described the dismay felt by ordinary Afghans when they learnt what had been done in their name.
Part of daily life
In the absence of better alternative sources of information, the BBC itself has become a symbol.
It is a part of Afghan daily life and it is unusual to meet Afghans who are not regular listeners.
The BBC provides information through news programmes, it provides entertainment through its soap opera in Pashto and Persian, it provides music and poetry and appeals to women and children, not just to men.
In the minds of many Afghans, the expulsion of the BBC Kabul correspondent also has deeply symbolic overtones.
Isolated
The Taleban are isolated, they are under sanction, they are divided, and they are now unpopular.
The more thoughtful among them are aware of this and have tried to resist destructive and self-defeating moves.
If they fail, then the outside world will inevitably conclude that the Taleban are not fit to become the accepted and recognised rulers of the country whose culture they are destroying.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1221000/1221430.stm
-mehndi
[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
You can fish out loopholes in order to prove that this picture was taken without him knowing, but I bet you would have a hard time proving that regarding all the other pictures of him. Anyway, my issue was not with photography. It was with double standards.
Sir, I think you are the one trying to find loopholes here to prove nonsense in photographs. I am here to point out the facts. Tell me, is he smiling?
Thank you.
Thats a weak argument. Besides, even during the Prophet SAW time, Islam was the way of life and government. Can you cite any instance where Prophet SAW imposed Islam on his subjects?
Please don’t bring in the holy Prophet (pbuh) in the middle of arguments. But for as far as your statement is concerned I will like to say that in the beginning there was the Prophet (pbuh) and with him was the creator Allah (swt), in which he didn’t need to do any of that. But now its us, the people, by our selves with Allah (swt) message and a test called time and life, for which Allah (swt) want to see how far can we go with his message and what can we do to keep his message alive.
Btw, in the time of Prophet (pbuh) letters were sent to leader of countries and states to accept the message of Allah (swt) “Islam” or else prepare for battle. What do you call that?
There are strict guidelines regarding dealing with nonmuslims in a muslim state, and the taleban, while maybe fine in dealing with muslims, are far from what they should do while dealing with non muslims.
Now you are telling me that Taliban are not fair with non-Muslims? Will you please read an article posted by a non-Muslim in world affairs where non-Muslims had their chance to say a word about their condition in Afghanistan under Taliban rule? I think after that you will find your comment very weak.
Jealousy regarding what? jealousy for muslims or non muslims?
Jealousy and fear on both Muslims and non-Muslims side.
what do muslims have to jealous of?
Jealousy of the blind faith and love they have for their Allah (swt) and his message and the holy Prophet (pbuh).
When people find something absent in their own selves, then they critique anther to feel better about themselves.
that the taleban are exploiting Islam so brazenly?
Why are people so embarrassed by their acts? Who is not exploiting Islam? Who is doing something about it? Has any Arab nation tried to do something about the Nation of Islam in America, which is basically politics? I don’t think so. At least the Taliban are trying hard to go by the book. These people are going by the dollars.
what do non muslims have to be jealous of? years of inhouse fighting and hunger death and famine?
Jealous of the courage to survive all that and still stand up to superpowers. Can you name any other country to survive brutalities like these people have been/going through for all these years since the being of their history?
top that with forceful imposition of Allahs deen which is exclusively meant for those who believe, NOT those who are scared of their government.
Scared of what?
People of Afghanistan won’t even vote for their own relative if they were standing for presidency. In fact they will vote against their own, because they don’t like being ruled over by anyone, not even their own.
And you are telling me they are scared? Oh please. Why don’t they come out like Rawa has?
I figure we both are talking about the same incident here.....Pakistan football team. And ur comment is that they were warned three times for what? to wear long johns while playing football? Please. Or is this an islamic law that I dont know about?
I am sure you are familiar with the proper way of dressing for men in Islam and under Shariah.
[/quote]
Sir, I think you are the one trying to find loopholes here to prove nonsense in photographs. I am here to point out the facts. Tell me, is he smiling?
Is he crying? or did he avoid getting his picture taken? yes, to me it seems hes smiling. There. Maybe he got his pic taken intentionally, maybe it was unintentionally. But read Pristines response regarding the supreme commander of taleban, who is more social than the Foreign minister, yet never allows himself to be photographed. Why? because he does not put himself in such a position. If a person decides to follow a certain path, he makes sure he does not get himself into such a situation where he will be made to follow that wrong path EVEN mistakenly.
Please don’t bring in the holy Prophet (pbuh) in the middle of arguments.
Why not? Is there some other prophet that I dont know of that we should refer to? Prophet SAW is our ONLY example. No matter what age you are living in, whether its the stone age or the computer age, the life of Prophet SAW applies across the board.
And btw, Prophet SAW sent letters to leaders of countries that were in their jurisdiction…not an alien country. And plus, do NOT confuse Prophets SAW edict for battle upon them with what the taleban are doing. Prophet SAW battled to defend Islam…not to impose it on others. Know the history and difference please.
**When people find something absent in their own selves, then they critique anther to feel better about themselves. **
Noone is perfect in this world. And we get better only by constructive criticism, especially in matters of deen…by following right examples, and by following them in the true sense of the word, under the exact same motives. With the taleban, the actions might be similar, but the motives are different.
Why are people so embarrassed by their acts? Who is not exploiting Islam? Who is doing something about it? Has any Arab nation tried to do something about the Nation of Islam in America, which is basically politics?
They are representing this image as that of Islam, ‘pure islam’ in their own words, which is far from the truth. Besides, you are justifying the talebans actions based on ineffeciency of the Arabs. What does one have to do with the other? Why is one dependent on the other? Can you lie just because someone else is lying? Can you steal just because someone else is stealing? Can Taleban exploit Islam just because someone else is doing it too? Whatever happened to their edict regarding a pure state?
Scared of what?
Scared of the government. Did you know that thousands of afghanis are moving to Pakistan on a daily basis? With a promise of nothing but a place in a refugee camp, these people are more than happy to leave their houses in afghanistan in order to live in 2 square foot tents with a limited ration and under freezing cold. Why are they taking such risks? for the fun of it?
I am sure you are familiar with the proper way of dressing for men in Islam and under Shariah.
A mans sattar is from his navel to his knees. And a football uniform adequately covers that. Now if the taleban did not like the one inch exposed thigh above their knees, its idiotic. And if it wasnt a stupid move, why did the afghan govt apologize to Pakistan later on? Why did they not hold their ground on it?
Defending factions like these is easy…because, hey, we are defending Islam. And anyone who opposes them is branded as a traitor, kaffir and what not. Sames the case with politically motivated religious parties in Pakistan,ala sipahe sahaba, fiqh jaafria and all others. They are toying with Islam for their personal gains and notoriety.
Islam is spread by example, not by force, not by the sword, not by insanity. Understand the meaning of the word ‘Islam’.
Pristine…they did give the argument that there were no buddhists in afghanistan who were using those statues. Point taken. But the statues were revered by budhists around the world, specially sri lanka. And the lankans offered to buy those statues. Why didnt taleban sell, or simply give those statues away to them? Sometimes logic should be allowed to override selfishness, dont u think
Mickey Mamoo, So if he was crying then it would have been O K?
Eastern A* do you have to start all the juicy topics when I am unable to participate? haan?
[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
Is he crying? or did he avoid getting his picture taken? yes, to me it seems hes smiling. There.
It doesn’t make any difference if he is crying or smiling. But the fact is that he is not. Which you stated he is.
Maybe he got his pic taken intentionally, maybe it was unintentionally. But read Pristines response regarding the supreme commander of taleban, who is more social than the Foreign minister, yet never allows himself to be photographed. Why? because he does not put himself in such a position. If a person decides to follow a certain path, he makes sure he does not get himself into such a situation where he will be made to follow that wrong path EVEN mistakenly.
Exactly my point here! Why are you concentrating on something negative while you can take their supreme leader as an example and make a positive gesture? I hope you are not telling me that it is all right to blame or point fingers till someone like Pristine comes along and trashes your entire intention of making something out of nothing by providing you with a better example of their standards.
Why not? Is there some other prophet that I dont know of that we should refer to? Prophet SAW is our ONLY example. No matter what age you are living in, whether its the stone age or the computer age, the life of Prophet SAW applies across the board.
Please don’t tell me that all the other Prophets were here for the heck of it.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is a better example of all, but he is not the ONLY example.
Why not? Because I don’t think it is right to bring in man of great status like HIM (pbuh) in the middle of a nonsensical debate to prove who is hypocritical or not.
And btw, Prophet SAW sent letters to leaders of countries that were in their jurisdiction...not an alien country.
Under their jurisdiction or out side their jurisdiction; it doesn’t make any difference!
Did Taliban went to an alien country or Pakistan and imposed their rules on them? I don’t think so. Matter of fact they even let them take their pictures like you said? And if they didn’t then you might be saying that they are imposing?
You can’t let them live one way or the other. Why they hypocrisy?
When people find something absent in their own selves, then they critique anther to feel better about themselves.
Noone is perfect in this world.
So that’s makes it OK to criticize someone who is trying hard to be perfect? Nonsense!
And we get better only by constructive criticism, especially in matters of deen...by following right examples, and by following them in the true sense of the word, under the exact same motives.
Constructive criticism? I think above you just changed your mind about something when Pristine pointed out something interesting. I don’t call that constructive criticism. I call it mocking one and their beliefs.
With the taleban, the actions might be similar, but the motives are different.
I don’t think you can read their minds, can you? Because I honestly don’t know that.
They are representing this image as that of Islam, 'pure islam' in their own words, which is far from the truth.
Maybe far, but the closest we have! Btw, they want to make a pure state, not pure Islam. As far as I know Islam is pure, no need for purification.
Besides, you are justifying the talebans actions based on ineffeciency of the Arabs.
No, maybe it was wrong of me mentioning only Arab nations. But now I am questioning the entire Ummah.
What does one have to do with the other? Why is one dependent on the other?
Right! What does one have to do with the other? Why are you dependent on Taliban that you are assuming that they are hiding behind double standards? Are you depending on Taliban actions? Why should you care? After all that is what you are saying, right?
Or are you now being a hypocrite by changing the entire scenario?
Can Taleban exploit Islam just because someone else is doing it too? Whatever happened to their edict regarding a pure state?
How are Taliban exploting Islam? Should you care if they are exploiting it? Or again you are being hypocritical? Because if they really concern you, then you should really worry about others also, not just only Taliban. Or are they an easy target because they are far away out of reach to answer your questions?
Scared of the government. Did you know that thousands of afghanis are moving to Pakistan on a daily basis? With a promise of nothing but a place in a refugee camp, these people are more than happy to leave their houses in afghanistan in order to live in 2 square foot tents with a limited ration and under freezing cold. Why are they taking such risks? for the fun of it?
Please! Please! Please! You know and so do everyone else here know that the main reason for them to leave the country is sanctions, drought and the ethnic civil war. So far there are no reports of people being afraid of the government and running away. If there are, please let me know.
A mans sattar is from his navel to his knees. And a football uniform adequately covers that. Now if the taleban did not like the one inch exposed thigh above their knees, its idiotic. And if it wasnt a stupid move, why did the afghan govt apologize to Pakistan later on? Why did they not hold their ground on it?
Maybe one inch don’t matter to you just like selling or trading of idols don’t matter to you. In that way I can take that you are toying with Islam and are not taking it as serious as one is suppose to.
Btw, I didn’t know they apologize…..when was that?
Defending factions like these is easy...because, hey, we are defending Islam. And anyone who opposes them is branded as a traitor, kaffir and what not.
No one here is calling anyone traitors or kaffirs. If there is something within your own heart then that is your problem, not of our concern.
Islam is spread by example, not by force, not by the sword, not by insanity.
Nor is it spread by hypocrisy, nonsense and scandalizing.
Understand the meaning of the word 'Islam'.
I know the meaning of the word Islam. I think you need to understand the history of Islam and its followers history before you make or come to any sort of conclusions.
[/quote]
Aren’t you guys going in circles…?
I am having a hard time figuring out what the heck are you trying to prove here.
Guys, stick on one position and one topic and stay with it?
PS. Is he smiling? Is he crying? Gimme a break!
The heck do i care whether hes crying or smiling. My original point, which has been strayed from, is that the same people who are brandishing one form of extremism turn out to create loopholes in other areas that suit their needs. Uniformity in ones attitude is what keeps our faith going. Piety in one, and ‘liberalism’ in another issue does not uniformity make.
Regarding Prophet SAW, I dont know which other Prophets a muslim needs to refer to while talking about Islam. True enough, all prophets brought on the same message. However, the basic difference between Prophet SAW and his predecessors is that Prophet SAW was sent down for the whole world, whereas his predecessors were there for a certain group of people. In the light of this, whatever we find in the earlier prophets will undoubtedly be there in Prophet SAW, and whats there in Prophet SAW, may or may not be in his predecessors. Hence, the only source in Prophets has to be Prophet SAW, after the Quran.
I think this thread has started concentrating more on me personally rather than what the issue is…and thats where I take my leave. In order to prove my point, I dont need to prove my opponent as a lesser. That strategy is better suited to politicians. And Pristine, why cant a discussion nurture itself? You cannot expect a monotnous discussion on any issue. It will undoubtedly cover other relative subjects..and to keep track of them, youd have to read the whole thing from the beginning
The heck do i care whether hes crying or smiling. My original point, which has been strayed from, is that the same people who are brandishing one form of extremism turn out to create loopholes in other areas that suit their needs.
Weren’t you the one who said, “no one is perfect”? How does that differ in the case of Taliban? Or is it just some kind of hatred towards Taliban for which they are constantly “criticized”? I’m just questioning your intention that’s all.
Uniformity in ones attitude is what keeps our faith going. Piety in one, and 'liberalism' in another issue does not uniformity make.
Concentrate that towards yourself and you won’t find a bit difference.
Regarding Prophet SAW, I dont know which other Prophets a muslim needs to refer to while talking about Islam. True enough, all prophets brought on the same message. However, the basic difference between Prophet SAW and his predecessors is that Prophet SAW was sent down for the whole world, whereas his predecessors were there for a certain group of people. In the light of this, whatever we find in the earlier prophets will undoubtedly be there in Prophet SAW, and whats there in Prophet SAW, may or may not be in his predecessors. Hence, the only source in Prophets has to be Prophet SAW, after the Quran.
Instead of giving a brief history, you should have realized why I said not to mention him. I don’t think that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the ONLY example for us. He is the all best example we have, but we also have many other examples, which we can learn from. By discarding them will be considered disrespectful.
Btw, in case of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being used as the ONLY example in Islam, weren’t all the Prophets born Muslims, in this regard “teaching Islam” from the first till the last Prophet? Then how can they not be used as an example when referring to Islam?
I think this thread has started concentrating more on me personally rather than what the issue is.....and thats where I take my leave. In order to prove my point, I dont need to prove my opponent as a lesser. That strategy is better suited to politicians.
Dear friend, as you being the one started the thread with posting this mans picture, and later on making these comments:
X-comm...what Im saying is that there should be uniformity in one's approach to their belief. If **they* are extreme enough to delete harmless statues, shouldnt they be extreme about pictures as well? They cannot bring up loopholes in certain issues to bail themselves out, and be so extreme in other issues that they dont even stop to see what purpose their actions will serve.*
It is clear to see that you are holding responsible the entire government and Taliban for one man actions done intentionally or unintentionally, for me that is hypocritical. I have no intentions of making anyone look any lesser or greater, but I have to defend my statements.
As Pristine pointed out that the supreme-leader of Taliban (Mulla Muhammad Omar) being as active as he is, has never allowed anyone to take his picture. Then why not concentrate on him and our energies on something positive regarding our fellow Muslims then point fingers and make mockery out of them? That is hypocritical when you hold one of them for having double standards but at the same time give great status to their main person as a man of his words. Why the hypocrisy? You can not stand in two boats at the same time when trying to cross, because you will be split in half.
Something i got in my mail:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I just read the post about Taleban’s Minister’s Pic.
and demolition of the statues. I would like to say
that by domolishing these statues these people are
proving a point. When UN and America impose sanctions
upon Afghans which can result in the deaths of about
a million people (women and children also), nobody
in the world says a world of sympathy. But now when
Taleban are destroying a few lifeless pieces of rock,
the whole (so called) civilised world is crying and
mourning for that “historical heritage”. Now who is
hypocite?
I have tried to register at least thrice at that
board,
but either I am refused or it’s pending. I don’t know
what is wrong with Pak Post admin. Please post this
view on the board; because personally I think that
life
is precious and lets talk about those millions of
people who are/will suffer instead of these pieces of
rocks.
Wa’Salaam,
Mahmud.