During the last decade Paksitan had been served well by two leading wicketkeepers, Rashid and Moin.
Lot of arguments have been put forward in favour of both keepers and I think the consensus is that Rashid is a better keeper while Moin is a better batsmen.
Recently, however both keepers have disappointed fans as Rahsid’s keeping during the ODI’s against SA was poor while Moin’s keeping in the test has been well below par as well.
The question is that should we persist with these two or should we bring in another keeper now.
If Rashid and Moin keep dropping catches behind the stumps than why persist with them. Why not bring in a new keeper and let him drop a few catches as well, but in the process they will gain vital experience that will serve us well in the future.
So, who should be this new keeper, Kamran Akmal, Humayun Farhat or someone else?
What do you think, should we persist with the oldies who have recently disappointed us or is it time to introduce a new face, and if so, which one?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
During the last decade Paksitan had been served well by two leading wicketkeepers, Rashid and Moin.
Lot of arguments have been put forward in favour of both keepers and I think the consensus is that Rashid is a better keeper while Moin is a better batsmen.
Recently, however both keepers have disappointed fans as Rahsid's keeping during the ODI's against SA was poor while Moin's keeping in the test has been well below par as well.
The question is that should we persist with these two or should we bring in another keeper now.
If Rashid and Moin keep dropping catches behind the stumps than why persist with them. Why not bring in a new keeper and let him drop a few catches as well but in the process they will gain the vital experience and will serve us well in the future.
So, who should be this new keeper, Kamran Akmal, Humayun Farhat or someone else?
What do you think, should we persist with the oldies who have recently disappointed us or is this it time to introduce a new face, and if so, which one?
[/QUOTE]
I think Humayun Farhat is better than Kamran Akmal since he is a better batsman as far as i know (correct i i'm wrong) ..... so it would give Pakistan an option like Gilchrist for Australia ..... he might not be as aggressive as him but he may provide some much needed stability to the middle order so Pak can afford to go with 6 Batsmen + keeper/batsman and an additional allrounder like Malik/Razzaq + 3 frontline bowlers ...... of course keeping in mind what kind of conditions they r playing in and what type (Test/ODI) of game .....
Well, its time to bring a new keeper in the squad but NOT in the final eleven, not permanently, not as yet. I would like to see Rashid or Moin play for two or three series so that the new bloke can learn how to control the game, learn how to cheer players up, keep them motivated and tip his bowlers about thier faults and etc etc. Yes i know many arguments will rise that how is the new keeper gonna learn. My solution is to play him in random matches. For example , play him in two of five oneday matches in a series or in one of three oneday matches series. So that he can learn his senior and immediately transfer the knowlege on the field.
Out of new blokes, Atiq Uz zamaan is the best keeper but his batting is umm not that sparkling, can anyone update about his batting record in firstclass? Humayun Farhat is an average keeper but he is a hugely talented batsman as well. If he can improve his keeping (preferrably under Rashid as he is a natural keeper) he should take the reins.
On second thought , i think they shuld play Atiq in tests and Humayun Farhat in onedayers.
Rashid is the better keeper between the two senior candidates but his committment at the moment is in question so I wouldn't consider him for the next matches against NZ.
Moin looks seriously out of sorts as a w/k although his value to the team as a batsman and motivator is a plus. I haven't seen Humayun so can't comment, otherwise I see no harm in trying either him or Akmal who can strike a decent shot or two as a batsman.
Anybody who can't bat shouldn't be considered as these days w/k are expected to hold their own with the bat and we would be seriously disadvantaged against other teams if we played a specialist w/k who was a tail-ender.
Xtreme, It would be unfair to question Rashid’s commitment coz of this one incident. And whats more we dont even know the nature of his withdrawal, okay lets assume he was disillusioned with the way he was treated by selectors so he wanted to take a break and analyze his position. There could be pure genuine reasons as well.
If he is available and selectors think he is still good enough, this withdrawal shouldnt be a problem. If one starts doubting on how much a person is commited than there are so many incidents when other players (even pther pakistani players) can be doubted. Wasim, Waqar or Shoaib can come at top of list. Secondly he shouldnt take his position for granted and that he realizes as he himself said that he knows that his return in the team will be in doubt because of the competition with Moin. So that shows he doesnt take his postion for granted.
Moin, i like his contnius chatting sometimes, and yes he is a great motivator but sometimes he contradicts himself sooo much it feels bad. I mean if he continously yells at a youngster ke catch tu kero , pehlay ball pakro phir thrwo kero etc etc, its fine. But he does that too when he is dropping balls and fumbling them himself. I remember once in some triangular final against Lankans, he dropped Ranatunga twince in consecutive overs and soon Afridi spilled a difficult chance off his bowling. Moin was like 'yaar itna seedha aa raha hai ball yeh tu pakro '. Afridi must have thought ke Moin bhai pehlay khud tu pakar lo, phir mujhay kehna. His batting has always been a huge plus for the side and he was player of crisis. He should show that he still has it with the bat.
Bottom line is, we MUST persist either with Moin or Rashid for two three series atleast before they relenquish thier spots themselves after teaching some youngster some bits of thier knowledge atleast. Coz new comer wont be a bowler or a batsman alone. He will be the most involved man on the field after the captain.
Rashid went for ummrah becuz of which he missed SA tour tests.
he has said that he wants to play till indian tour. so must be given chance as moin is not upto mark.
as far as youngster is concern i believe stage is set for kamran akmal to take over as soon as moin n rashid umpire folds.
I say when there is a big series of Ind-Pak coming up, I dont want to bring in new keeper to learn things. I'll stick with one from Rashid and Moin and in these 2 i prefer Rashid over Moin.
I think we should give a youngster some chance in upcoming NewZealand series to see where he is. Its better to have a Keeper/Batsman (Rashid) then Batsman/Keeper (Moin).
This is the problem with you guys - You dont have any patience at all. Most of you supported an out-of-form-out-of-practice-out-of-shape Moin Khan's selection in the team and now that he is in the team and looks rusted due to the lack of match practise, most of you want him out of the team and now willing to give chance to the same Kamran Akmal who wasn't good enough to play at international level and blah blah blah.
What did you think - That Mon will come right into the team and start taking flying catches ? Or start making centuries ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
This is the problem with you guys - You dont have any patience at all. Most of you supported an out-of-form-out-of-practice-out-of-shape Moin Khan's selection in the team and now that he is in the team and looks rusted due to the lack of match practise, most of you want him out of the team and now willing to give chance to the same Kamran Akmal who wasn't good enough to play at international level and blah blah blah.
What did you think - That Mon will come right into the team and start taking flying catches ? Or start making centuries ?
[/QUOTE]
sorry uncle. is baar maaf ker dain, ainda nahi karen gai :)
Serious note: Not me, I was never in a favor of bringing Moin back. Kamran should have got the chance in the temp absense of Rashid
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Decent 6Chora: *
I say when there is a big series of Ind-Pak coming up, I dont want to bring in new keeper to learn things. I'll stick with one from Rashid and Moin and in these 2 i prefer Rashid over Moin.
[/QUOTE]
Chorey - That series is atleast 5-6 months away, you have plenty of time to groom a young wicket keeper from your junior side.
What did you think - That Mon will come right into the team and start taking flying catches ? Or start making centuries ?
[/QUOTE]
its not that Moin wasnt practising at all, he was inovled in domestic competitions so certqainly not out of shape. Secondly there are numerous incidents when ppl have made strong comebacks, Both Moin and Rashid have done on numerous occassions. Even your indian player Srinath did that tooi.e. make a strong come back. And its not the flying catches that we want to see, but we wanted to see a satisfactory performance. Secondly, not many ppl are favoring Akmal, and i m sure not those ppl who opposed his call before moin was recalled are calling for his recall.
Its time to bring Kamran Akmal. I haven't seen Faraht so can't say much about him.
We've got new openers, bowlers, why notnew wicket-keeper. Besides he is not new, he has played some international cricket.
We've got new openers, bowlers, **why notnew wicket-keeper. **Besides he is not new, he has played some international cricket.
[/QUOTE]
Many reasons .. single most important is that a keeper is the second most invovled person on the field apart from captain and his job is to find flaws in his bowlers, help captain out with field placings etc etc NOT Just keeping, Any new comer must stay in the squad to learn all this from either of these two masters first hand. Then should feature permenantly in the final eleven.
Saby - Keeping/Batting against domestic chooza (bowlers) is one thing and keeping to Sami/Akhtar at international level for 5 consecutive days is another. You should have known this better. How many times he kept wickets or batted against a quality fast bowler in the domestic cricket in last 3 years?
A WK should be able to catch the balls behind the wicket, once he has achieved that successfully, he can think about finding flaws in the bowlers or field positions (Not other way round). Bowlers work very hard to get these chances..you know.
PS :- Srinath was never out of International Cricket for 3 years.
^^ Asif, he plays for PIA and they have some good seamers playing for them, Azhar, Mohammad Zahid, Fazl-e-Akbar (i think so), etc etc so yes No Sami Akhtar quality but of international frame surely.
there are many keepers in pakistan who can catch the ball consistntly. You watch your country’s games for sure. Parthiv patel is playing for an year or so but you see how he struggled continuosly in the recent series. He is a telanted bloke, so are many pakistani keepers, but i for one wont wanna see that happen with a young keeper thrown at the deep end at a critical juncture of pakistan cricket.
p.s that was just an example, not necessrily saying that he was out for 3 years. Robin Singh, who was out for 11 (or was it 9?) years and made s trong come back:hehe:, Damien Martyn, Stuart Mcgill, Carl Hooper, Kalu witharana etc …
Saby - Parthiv is a newcomer and hadn't played a single Ranji trophy match when he made his debut and will learn from his mistakes. He has never kept for a decent bowler in a domestic match. He has played only 8 ODIs (out of which 1 was washed out) and 9 Tests.
Comparing him to Players like Moin Khan or even Akmal is not fair.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by saby: *
that was just an example, not necessrily saying that he was out for 3 years. Robin Singh, who was out for 11 (or was it 9?) years and made s trong come back, Damien Martyn, Stuart Mcgill, Carl Hooper, Kalu witharana etc ...
[/QUOTE]
Saby - Now you wanna compare Robin Singh's fitness with Moin Khan's fitness ? Or do you want to Compare Australian Domestic Cricket with Pakistani Domestic Cricket ?
Well I have proved my point - which is Moin Khan has failed with Bat and Gloves both.
Btw - Are Mcgill,Hooper, Robin Singh, Martyn etc Wicket Keepers and does Kalu keep wickets to fastest bowlers in the world ?
Saby - Now you wanna compare Robin Singh's fitness with Moin Khan's fitness ? Or do you want to Compare Australian Domestic Cricket with Pakistani Domestic Cricket ?
Well I have proved my point - which is Moin Khan has failed with Bat and Gloves both.
[/QUOTE]
Arey bhai, when we were happy he came back you were fighting with us that he should not come back because he has got butter fingers and we should try some others. Now after two tests we agree with you and you are saying give him a chance to settle down because he is rusty.
Saby - Now you wanna compare Robin Singh's fitness with Moin Khan's fitness ? Or do you want to Compare Australian Domestic Cricket with Pakistani Domestic Cricket ?
Well I have proved my point - which is Moin Khan has failed with Bat and Gloves both.
[/QUOTE]
I knew that would be your argument, Pakistani structure v/s Aussie structure. My point was only that Moin has done (make a successful comeback) before and he could have done here as well but he was too nervy. I dont wanna go in infinite loop of discussion so lets agree to disagree and respect each other's opinion :)
His batting has always been a huge plus for the side and he was player of crisis. He should show that he still has it with the bat.