Re: Next Gen Taliban
Like this propaganda video by Jihadis is not bloody where they run over an FC post/camp and kill all of them?
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpNhP6lAIfA&feature=related
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogva6e3llXg&feature=related
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HKgwxmKaXw&feature=related
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utweXoIfJQo&feature=related
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Crescent, are the Afghani refugees that came out of AFGHANISTAN and tell us of the atrocities commited by the Talib-ul-Jahilliyah also propagandists in your berserk mind?
May Allah protect us from freaks; especially HT freaks.
Taking sides in the Afghan conflict(s) is like selecting a limb to get cut off...either way you end up a gimp in the end.
The so-called moderates in power right now, i.e. the lap dogs of Nato, are no more (or less) brutal than the Talibs have ever been...the idea that there is some qualitative difference between those who are and are not "on side" is a farce.
Afghanistan was, at best, a strategy as far as Pakistan was concerned. The Taliban nothing more than an implement. It amazes me how many people construe this lovers spat to be something more than that...wait a while, and I'm sure another external threat can be materalized so that the Pak army and the people they're fighting against right now will once again draw an income from the same wallet.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Crescent, are the Afghani refugees that came out of AFGHANISTAN and tell us of the atrocities commited by the Talib-ul-Jahilliyah also propagandists in your berserk mind?
May Allah protect us from freaks; especially HT freaks.
Yeah I dont associate myself with HT.
Restless:
You can go ahead and push it under the rug as a conspiracy theory, but a slight historical perspective might change your view, look into it. Dont focus on contemporary times, but the history of our people, and our nation, that have shaped the times we live in today.
Ajju:
Next time an army comes and bombs your home, I'll ask you the same. External forces are trying to break us apart, and sadly muslims end up with the blood of other muslims on their hands.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
I'm all for Khilafat and i'm very certain sooner or later it will become the rule and law of the land. And yes Humanity as a whole will prosper under it.
Having said that, it doesn't mean i'm for bloodshed or killing of the innocent. Radicalism is one thing, True Islam is totally different. You cannot mix the two, if you do then you haven't learned Islam for what it really teaches.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
For sure, Khilafat is achieved by Muslims becoming Muslims. Not by force.
Its given divinely to those who struggle to better themselves. Non muslims cant even trust themselves with Muslims, heck Muslims themselves can't trust themselves with muslims, the day where our own neighbour be it white, black, brown or w/e trusts us, and loves us for who we are, we are not attaining khilafat.
The issue here is not that. In fact its the defamation of an ideology, a movement, who has now come under so much attention because certain groups want us to think that way.
Its not just Taliban, its the chinese muslims in china, the chechens, the afghanis, the iraqis, the kashmiris the list is endless.
How can outside forces be at war with the same group of people?
If taliban want afghanistan, why would they care about what goes on in China?
Islam allows for force to be used, of equal amount, against those who attack. Referring to the soldiers who invade countries, where they do not belong. Not to the rest of America, albeit they might hate us. You cant blame American populace for hating muslims, they haven't really gotten an alternative to look at. We become armchari scholars overnight, yet do nothing in our lives to bring nonmuslims closer to Islam.
As for those who know who they are dealing with, those institutions, and those governments who forcefully take down a country, and try to diminish a nation, those people are in error, and must be stopped, and retribution must take place for them.
I am not a HT, i disagree with many of their agendas, neither am I a wahabi. So you cannot assume or pass judgment, based on what you think is right. Its what objectively exists that matters.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Crescent: The Taliban are on record for the atrocities they've committed and mass refugees attest to that. Their control over every little aspect of personal life is not in accordance with Islam. Their shutdown of female involvement in the community is NOT in accordance with Islam. Their blockade of girls going to school is NOT in accordance with Islam. Their mass use of weaponry against citizens is NOT in accordance with Islam. Their complete shutdown of the arts is NOT in accordance with Islam. Their complete disregard for the environment and cleanliness on the streets is NOT in accordance with Islam. Their gun-touting culture - walking around on the streets with guns and beating women's legs on the streets is NOT in accordance with Islam. Do you want me to keep going? A true muslim state is NOT a police state.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
You might think they're bloody, but thats not the case. Seeing how khilafat is a necessary agenda, through personal development, or direct reactive force in areas where ncessary, Its appauling how many muslims are away from this ideology.
May Allah Guide you. Ameen.
After reading your posts, im glad Muslims are "away" from this ideaology... People with your ideology have no place in civilized society.
And im glad those terrorists are meeting Pakistan Army with force... If they didnt, how would we know who to kill?
Re: Next Gen Taliban
May Allah give them strength, Ameen.
I thought about moving these posts, as we have been doing to Taleban apologists, but not while theres still room to hammer in what vacuous, empty, thoughtless posts these are.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Strength to take out the invading forces who ARE doing what you mentioned.
Invading forces? Waziristan and Swat (and Islamabad) are all part of PAKISTAN, and by any standard the Pakistani army is not an invading force.
Would you have said the same about the Khwarij, they had established their little pockets of control too.
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And the ability for us muslims to look aside from the media, and open our minds to the objectivity that lays in front of us, veiled by the deception of the media.
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Typical. Who, pray is the media? Allow me to venture a guess. ANY report that says Taleban arent the doe eyed ideals you believe them to be is ofcourse deception of the media. Yet you will believe the same deceptive media when it meets with your worldview.
What do you, actually believe? How do you know which invading force is there? How do you know that isnt a deception too?
You, like all of us, believe what you want to believe, lets set aside the pretence of objectivity. If you wish to discuss any topic, please stop assuming everyone doesnt have the same basic brain structure that you have.
You might think they're bloody, but thats not the case.
Seeing that the people being discussed in this thread have taken responsibility for suicide attacks where bystanders and civilians were killed, yes it is the case. If their own proclamation of responsibility isnt worth trusting then their whole identity isnt worth trusting, how do you know they even exist? If they dont exist why are you praying for their success?
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Seeing how khilafat is a necessary agenda, through personal development, or direct reactive force in areas where ncessary, Its appauling how many muslims are away from this ideology.
May Allah Guide you. Ameen.
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Right, and its the Muslims fault that all over the world the Khilafat cause is adopted by retrogressive, violent, suicide-bombing, sectarian fanatics.
"reactive" force is a lie. The state's action is a reaction to what they were doing in the guise of their khilafat. Laal masjid didnt happen until they starting abducting people, burning shops and ministries and killing policemen. Sure. "Reactive" force.
Same in Swat.
There is no doubt that idiotic dogmas prevail in pakistan and afghanistan alike. But to defame a movement based on those is as wrong as saying all Hindus are extremists, because of their suicide bombings in Sri Lanka?
Do YOU condemn suicide bombing then? And those who commit it? If so some of these clowns have been on tv and listed out their suicide bombing preparations. Would you condemn them all, or are they noble khilafat seekers?
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But in my open minded view (unlike the closed, i'm assumed by some as) I believe the talibanistic ideology, of unity and social development, under the banner of Islam is today the most authentic, and realistic approach to order in that region, and world at large.
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Unity? Social development? Is this why Wana and Swat are the most united and socially developed regions in Pakistan? Why is it that these idealogies founded on sectarian hatred and social inadequacy only take hold in areas where there already is sectarian hatred, and social malaise? I would show you evidence of the former but ofcourse you'd say thats not "objective", but can you deny that the only places where Talebanies have been able to win people in significant numbers are ill-developed, ill-educated, divided communities?
In the squalor of Afghanistan, in the wilderness of WANA, in the lesser developed areas of our cities are these pockets of your social development models. Why cant they win the educated in any significant number? They HAVE to resort to suicide bombings and coercion because while you may accept their version of "unity" (eliminate everyone else) and "social development", the vast majority of Pakistanies historically hasnt, and that is reflective in the share of religious parties over many many elections.
Wait, maybe thats America's fault.
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The media can portray any group as they want, and we will fall victim to their doctrines and agendas. And if Pakistanis themselves haven't noticed, their country, their leader is being put under the same attention and defamation as were the afghani people and the Taliban alike.
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Once again. Who is the media? The jews? Lets let euphemisms lie, and be honest when we're talking.
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I dont believe in mass killings, honor killings, suicide bombings, or oppression upon women.
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and yet.. you support those who bomb political rallies (and claim responsibility), those who suicide bomb (and claim responsibility) and those who oppress women (and portray it as social development). Once again, please dont use the idiotic argument of "ur not objective, ur blinded by the media". Pick any topic in the world, and I can argue against it (or for it) with that line.
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Disunification of our lands are not due to the efforts of crazy mullahs in madressas where word of God is spread, but in the offices and conference rooms of MNCs and their lobbyist friends.
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Which MNC has even a remote interest in Swat? Lets not flatter ourselves, each of these MNCs could BUY Pakistan if it was of such interest. We're an impoverished nation, as is Afghanistan. Iraq, yea, theres oil there. Pakistan has bubkis to offer.
What specifically have the MNCs gained from Pakistan, or was that just idle talk?
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And to an extent , in the offices of many government institutions, those we are and aren't aware of.
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And you are aware of them... exactly how?
For sure, Khilafat is achieved by Muslims becoming Muslims. Not by force.
Right, and they wish to spread it by force, as the Lal Masjid saga clearly showed.
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Its given divinely to those who struggle to better themselves.
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Okay, what if I say it was given divinely to me. Prove me wrong.
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Non muslims cant even trust themselves with Muslims, heck Muslims themselves can't trust themselves with muslims, the day where our own neighbour be it white, black, brown or w/e trusts us, and loves us for who we are, we are not attaining khilafat.
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Great, so those who say it was given to them are clearly lying then, yes?
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The issue here is not that. In fact its the defamation of an ideology, a movement, who has now come under so much attention because certain groups want us to think that way.
Its not just Taliban, its the chinese muslims in china, the chechens, the afghanis, the iraqis, the kashmiris the list is endless.
How can outside forces be at war with the same group of people?
If taliban want afghanistan, why would they care about what goes on in China?
[/quote]
This is nonsensical. Are you saying that those fighting in Swat and WANA and claiming responsibility for bombings across Pakistan are not Taleban? What would you rather call them?
Not too long ago you yourself called it a "Talibanistic" ideology that you believe in. Would you rather we called them Talibanies instead of Taleban?
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Islam allows for force to be used, of equal amount, against those who attack.
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A state. Islam also allows for force to be used, of overwhelming amount, against rebels. It all depends on what bit of Islamic history you want to cite for which worldview.
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Referring to the soldiers who invade countries, where they do not belong. Not to the rest of America, albeit they might hate us. You cant blame American populace for hating muslims, they haven't really gotten an alternative to look at. We become armchari scholars overnight, yet do nothing in our lives to bring nonmuslims closer to Islam.
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Im sorry, but most Pakistanies also hate "such" Muslims in the Taleban mould,as is evident by their hiding out in nooks and crannies of our state and not being able to argue for their ideas in the public sphere.
The fact that they're forced to go out of the system to bring change (violent change) speaks volumes. There have been popular movements in Pakistan that came through the ballot boxes, and nobody could stop them. They CANT do that. They just dont speak for more than 5% (at best) of Pakistanies. Thus the coercion and the bombings.
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I am not a HT, i disagree with many of their agendas, neither am I a wahabi. So you cannot assume or pass judgment, based on what you think is right. Its what objectively exists that matters.
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I am not a modernist, I disagree with many of their agendas. neither am I an adherent to any sect. So you cannot assume or pass judgement based on what you think is right (although I cant understand how else ANYONE passes judgement.. based on what one thinks is wrong?). Its what objectively that matters.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
I thought about moving these posts, as we have been doing to Taleban apologists, but not while theres still room to hammer in what vacuous, empty, thoughtless posts these are.
From his posts I considere ke ye Tableeghi Jamat ka banda hai, leave him alone yaar! Many of them are peaceful, but take religion very serious. Like any orthodox Jew would.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
dont want to make assumptions or speculate about his person Ali_R, "Taleban apologist" is apropos because he says he supports the "Talibanisitic" ideology.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Here is another example of these mujahideen using a boy for a car bomb attack.
source: frontier post
2 die in Mohmand Agency attack Mukamel KhanGHALANAI: At least two people were killed in attack when a jeep coming from Khawezi area and intended to go to FC Headquarters Ghalanai. The vehicle was stopped at Khapakh check post. FC troops at the check post asked the passengers to cameout from the vehicle but only one of the person came out and started negotiation with he security men for at least one hour. The passengers were telling the troops that the kid is not feeling well so please let us go, but the troops insisted that we have to check the kid. So the man who came out of the vehicle started running towards mountain along with remote control, pictures are available with this correspondent. Suddenly blast occurred in a jeep killing the child on the spot. The boy was 13 year old. Suddenly FC troops started firing towards the person who was running away from the scene. During firing two bullets ripped through his head, died on the spot. The injured person who was with the kid was arrested and shifted to Peshawar for further investigation. The dead person is identified as Nadar Khan S/O Musafar Khan belong to district Swabi. According to the sources, the security in the agency has been beefed up after the incident. All types of vehicles are searched out at all the important check posts of the agency. The injured person was taken to Peshawar in hard custody. Unconfirmed sources told this scribe that the security forces also impose curfew in Gandahab from 8:00PM last night.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
So far Ive been called a HT, TJ, Wahabi and what not, just goes to show how people can fall victim to assumptions based on little knowledge they have.
May Allah guide us All.
Secondly, there are numerous writers and journalists, who are simple censored out of the press because their views contradict the established dominant perception of the Taliban.
Talibanistic views, and extremists views in Pakistan are totally different. Pakistanis are the extremists, who go to an extent to do the atrocities aforementioned, an in some cases its external forces who plant these between us to divide the muslim ummah further ( eg. the british soldiers in iraqi costumes who were caught planting roadside bombs). You can post articles and news from so-and-so print mediums, written by "our correspondents", all you want, I dont need that crap, when I can find that anywhere. But you can take on accounts of people who have actually witnessed all this first hands, and have opened vistas for themselves by coming to Islam.
Tell me one thing, what differentiates "extremists" and "pakistanis who randomnly shoot on the street because some woman died"?
Or what differentiates "Pakistani kills his daughters" and "extremists stopping girls from going to school"?
I think that implies, that all pakistanis, all of us, and I are guilty of randomnly shooting on the streets, you may say some lunatic in pakistan did it because he was stupid, you can ascribe that to all Pakistanis.
Taliban in Afghanistan are different than the "followers" and "wanabes" we see in Pakistan. Pakistan has a the problem, not Afghanistan. They weren't even given food to feed their hungry, but massive amount of money was spent on restoring STATUES made of ROCKS? while people starved?
I'm not convincing you to take a side, That Allah can do. But retribution has its ways, and justice will be served, sooner or later.
And if they were that big of a problem, all these "Advanced armies" you support, would have eradicated them long time ago.
They have not, and they never will, they never can, no one in history has been able to shift these people. 8 years, and Afghanistan still is in their control, World war 2 ended in 6 years, but its been 8 years, to root out a people and no one has been successful.
May Allah continue to give them strength against the oppressors.
And guide all of us.
You can post whatever, please dont think it will change my view. But I urge you to open your eyes, and see the real enemy amongst us. And those who are suffering at the hands of the REAL extremists. And dont blame them for fighting back, for they have no other choice.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
warning!! dont be still fighting the taliban when they are back in government in afghanistan and thats coming soon!
your western border, who do you want on it? attackers or defenders?
afghanistan and the taliban will only heal with peace.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
You guys should really talk to the Afghani refugees and see what they have to say. The Taliban were despots. Women were kept like unbecoming cows. Children were forbidden education. Contact with the opposite gender, even under medical emergency was forbidden.
You need stitches to heal that wound? TOUGH! There are only two female doctors available and they cant service you because your male. Just bleed to death, your hoors wait for you.
No thanks.
I mean what kind of animals throw a grenade at a lion because it bit them when they were harassing it? Junglee and Jahil people.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Crescent, you take the time to write such long posts; does it behoove you to denounce the acts of coward suicide bombers in the suicide bomber story listed in a post directly above yours?
Or that's just a waste of your precious time?
Re: Next Gen Taliban
PCG, Thats one "correspondent" out of 1 billion that will be out there bringing up stories such as these, with claims of pictures. Any suicide bomber any explosion is going back to the same origin.
Im guessing suicide bombers in Sri lanka, are also Talibans.
Its becoming more and more futile, but you can go back to bashing them as you wish. Dont think I can change that.
Just atleast pray order and stability is achieved, as well as justice is served against the oppressors. Ameen.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Those prayers fall on deaf ears, I hope you understand, when you are not willing to recognize a serious problem in our society that now has become as common as rickshaws in Pakistan: suicide bombings. There are numerous reports on this incident circulating online by reputable journalism resources, and you're saying it all an act of fiction?
So, next you'll say the bomb blasts people are hearing in the country are a figment of their imagination?
Pitiful, Crescent.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
Those prayers fall on deaf ears, I hope you understand, when you are not willing to recognize a serious problem in our society that now has become as common as rickshaws in Pakistan: suicide bombings. There are numerous reports on this incident circulating online by reputable journalism resources, and you're saying it all an act of fiction?
So, next you'll say the bomb blasts people are hearing in the country are a figment of their imagination?
Pitiful, Crescent.
Sure, you can add anything else you want to that, its your call.
Assalamalikum.
Re: Next Gen Taliban
You guys should really talk to the Afghani refugees and see what they have to say. The Taliban were despots. Women were kept like unbecoming cows. Children were forbidden education. Contact with the opposite gender, even under medical emergency was forbidden.
You need stitches to heal that wound? TOUGH! There are only two female doctors available and they cant service you because your male. Just bleed to death, your hoors wait for you.
No thanks.
I mean what kind of animals throw a grenade at a lion because it bit them when they were harassing it? Junglee and Jahil people.
Its Afgan refugee not Afghani. Afghani is more something you rather smoke then talk to. Well although there are few exceptions, who'd rather like talking to IT.