Newly converted couple stoned to death

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Sophia,

FIRST - Pls do not call me your sister! You R not my sister and my mother is NOT your mother!

SECOND
This is what you quoted and I questioned you:
This is your [Sophia] quote:
"You might be pleased or displeased to know that "stonning to death" is not an Islamic (or Quraanic) confinement."

Soning to death is a Sharia law - Do you deny this?

It is a Shariah law because it is Prophet's sunnah or the Prophet practised Rajm!

Are you calling Prophet's Sunnah- 'UnIslamic' or 'Pre-Islamic' ?

That is exactly your words that you have chosen to express. Under your "version" of Islam - Isn't that blasphemy and you know what the punishment is? You do, don't you?

It appears that like hk - you may be saying that all Islamic countries are actually - in name only. Rather, they ae not Islamic at all! And, their violence & degradation against women & minorities is 'cultural' - based and has no basis in Islam.

Since, you claim to reject the Prophet's way/sunnah - the basis of most muslims' belief; well, how about elucidating for us:

How would you punish adultery under Quran and "your version" of Islam?

22

[quote]
Originally posted by Sophia Mujahid:
** I reapeat: "Stonning to death is not an Islamic confinement". The word "Rajam" is not even available in Quraan.

The rules against "zina" are clearly mentioned in the Holy Book. Will you please (ever) bothere to open Quraan and search if there is any order for Stonning to death?

Don't make others laugh at you and your faith, its the sincerest advise from your sister in Islam!

**
[/quote]

Hey Sophia, you're wasting ur time here trying to get across a message to some thick-skulled people here. Its so hard to conduct a civilized conversation here when many of the people are hate-filled and narrow-minded. I've decided not to let it get to me. Try and do the same.

23

To Humble,
Calm down! Take the day off!

To hk or Sophia:

You'll find that under your "version of Islam" there are no satisfactory & viable answers, only dead-end.

If you disagree then take me up and answer the question and points I made in my previous post - September 23, 2000 10:50 AM.

Bottom line - Allah's deen cannot be associated with barbarism & ignorance.

24

[quote]
Originally posted by faceup:
**Sophia,

FIRST - Pls do not call me your sister! You R not my sister and my mother is NOT your mother!

SECOND
This is what you quoted and I questioned you:
This is your [Sophia] quote:
"You might be pleased or displeased to know that "stonning to death" is not an Islamic (or Quraanic) confinement."

Soning to death is a Sharia law - Do you deny this?

It is a Shariah law because it is Prophet's sunnah or the Prophet practised Rajm!

Are you calling Prophet's Sunnah- 'UnIslamic' or 'Pre-Islamic' ?

That is exactly your words that you have chosen to express. Under your "version" of Islam - Isn't that blasphemy and you know what the punishment is? You do, don't you?

It appears that like hk - you may be saying that all Islamic countries are actually - in name only. Rather, they ae not Islamic at all! And, their violence & degradation against women & minorities is 'cultural' - based and has no basis in Islam.

Since, you claim to reject the Prophet's way/sunnah - the basis of most muslims' belief; well, how about elucidating for us:

How would you punish adultery under Quran and "your version" of Islam?**
[/quote]

I just assumed that you were a Muslim and we regard our fellow Muslims as brothers & sisters. If it hurts you then I shall not mention to be your sister again (I regret!).

My quote "you might be pleased or displeased....." was for a fellow guppy "Andhra", a prejudice, an anti-Islam, anti-Muslim, living to condemn Islam and Muslims, understand?

The Quranic confinement for "Zina" is Lashing and imprisonment as per the nature of the crime. If someone tries to prove it through "Hadith" , as per my school of thought, any "Hadith" which contradicts with Quran is supposed to be a "fabricated" (in Arabic it is called "Wadh'aee) and we reject it.

If Iran or Taliban or else impose "Stonning to death" don't call it Sharia or Islamic Law. I am a supporter and a humble worker of Taliban but I don't agree with them on this point. I am leaving for Cairo by early next year, to attend a session at Al Azhar university where we shall certainly discuss this point.

If hk mentioned somewhere that the Islamic countries are just for the name, what is wrong about it? In every Islamic country there are brothels and prostitutions are frequently "licensed" to practice "Zina". Nobody imposed stonneing to death for these "known" prostitutes. the film industry of Lahore and Egypt is a subsidiary of brothels. So which country on earth you may regard a true Islamic society?

The trgedy of Islam is that people like you never study Quran and try to establish their faith through other-than-Quran literatures. All the differences among various sects are based on non-Quranic theories.

Defending my "Deen" is not an act of blasphemy. For instance, chopping the hand of a theif is 100% acceptable to me as I believe it to be an Islamic confinement. Opposing to this law will be blasphemous. But my cliam here is that "stonning to death" is not an Islamic confinement. Secondly, I am never afraid of the "punishments" you mentioned as: The "Akbar Jihad" is to say the truth before a "jabir" ruler!

"Wa ma alian ill al blagh"

25

Rani

If india tries to drive out muslim from india, then india will be further divided.

take care

26

Sophia

I am NOT surprised! I never get a straight answer from a wahabi; rather a long song & dance!

Let's take a look at your following quote:
"The tragedy of Islam is that people like you never study Quran and try to establish their faith through other-than-Quran literatures"

1) You start by calling all muslims - WRONG or, polytheists & grave-worshippers. This is the HEART of the wahabiyya creed!

2) OK! Since, I presume you have read the Quran, pls show me where in the quran does it say:
i) how we should pray, how many rakats?
ii) how much zakat should we pay?
iii) that qiblah is "mecca"?

I ask you the above, for example, because of your "most ignorant & provocative" remark and folks, I must emphasize on " most ignorant"! Here's what Sophia says:

"The Quranic confinement for "Zina" is Lashing and imprisonment as per the nature of the crime.
If someone tries to prove it through Hadith, as per my school of thought, any "Hadith" which contradicts with Quran is supposed to be a "fabricated" (in Arabic it is called "Wadh'aee) and we reject it."

Based upon your 'most provocative' statement then Islam's salah, zakat and observances of other duties of Islam would be thrown out because their details are from the Prophet's Sunnah/hadiths and they cannot be proved back to the quran. Even then there are 300 differences in the salah alone amonst the 4 sunni taqleeds.

Do you see the extent of your ignorance?

Since, Wahabism/Salafiyya is based on Sunnah; so, all of Wahabism gets thrown out; flushed down!

Good luck in the "all expense paid" trip to the wahabiyya land!

[This message has been edited by faceup (edited September 23, 2000).]

27

[quote]
Originally posted by Yasin:
**Rani

If india tries to drive out muslim from india, then india will be further divided.

take care**
[/quote]

I was talking about right or wrong ...muslim countries should respect and tolerate non-muslims if they want muslim minorities to be respected. Do onto others what you want them to do it you.....I hope this is not very hard for you to understand.

P.S. No word of advice for a 'muslim' who was advocating pushing christians out of Pakistan.

28

Hey faceup, i dont know what sect of islam you belong to or what a Wahabi is ( what u call Sophia) but I am a MUSLIM. I dont have my own versions of Islam alright?
Boy, this used to be so simple in Pakistan. You're either a Sunni or Shia (I dont believe in different sects) but ever since I've joined this forum, Im hearing about Wahabies & Ismailies....I dont know what to think. I thought Islam was supposed to be simple.

29

P.S. No word of advice for a 'muslim' who was advocating pushing christians out of Pakistan.

I don't need advice from a sikhni anyway, keep it to yourself. you think you are so clever eh.

30

To Sophia:

You state:
"The Quranic confinement for "Zina" is Lashing and imprisonment as per the nature of the crime."

Could you pls explain for me via the verse about "Imprisonment" as per nature of crime. Which aya in quran talks about this - Imprisonment? And, who decides the nature of the crime?

Thnx

31

dear faceup (that is if you are not offended by this simple of greetings)

The way of salat does not contradict with anything in Quran.

That is not the same in which a punishment has been prescribed in Quran and a hadith is not conforming to it.

As I say.. ahadith should be taken 'with a pinch of salt' as there is no proof that they are 100% acurate, unlike Quran which is unaltered.

32

blackzero,

1)You say:
"The way of salat does not contradict with anything in Quran"

MY ANSWER:
I never said that Salah contradicts the Quran!

I said: Prayers are mentioned in the quran but not the 'mechanics' or the 'structure' of the salah! These details have come from the Prophet(SAW)!

You should note that within the 4 sunni taqleeds there are 300 differences in the Salah!

33

[This message has been edited by Sushma Kapoor (edited September 24, 2000).]

34

[quote]
Originally posted by Sushma Kapoor:
**

[This message has been edited by Sushma Kapoor (edited September 24, 2000).]**
[/quote]

Amazing! I don't understand but astonished to believe that Sushma Kapoor wrote on behalf of Sophia Mujahid.

What made you delete your writings Sushma. Don't make it a suspense story please, are you aware of Sophia's password or you are two in one? Sushma + Sophia !!??

Wow, Seeing is not believing on internet!

35

Face-up...

man.. you have to learn to read and comprehend what is written before firing off a response..

I never said that you had said Salah contradicts Quran..

What i said was that - there is nothing in Quran which states facts which are in contradiction to a hadith in the subject of salat-

I had used it as a comparison.. and I am glad you agree with the fact that quran does not contradict salah.

But as i said before.. Quran has prescribed a punishment for 'zina' and as the hadith is saying something which goes beyond that then the question of validity is raised.

BZ

[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited September 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited September 24, 2000).]

36

The story in the initial post (ie.posted by mohabbat) is sad...and pathetic, and as outlaw says, there is no excuse for it at all.

la hawla wala quwata illah billahil aleeyul azeem
There is no power and no might except from Allah.The most high-The great.

But the discussion's moved on to adultery in Islam and its punishment and i have something to share....

Alright, I don’t know 'exactly' where this discussion is at right now, but I heard something last night, a hadith that I’d like to share with you all. The last few days I’ve been attending a conference organized by our msa(muslim student's association), the key speakers were Imam Siraj Wahaj from brooklyn, and sister Shahina Siddique from Winnipeg.....I’m doing this from memory so if I make any mistakes may Allah swt forgive me.
Deep breath Okay here goes....

There are muslims who lie! Its true isn’t it? There are muslims who backbite, there are muslims who steal! Who even...disobey their parents. What do u think? I’m speaking the truth am I not? So tell me then if a believer---a muslim engages in the same activities as a nonbeliever, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Is there any?
silence

Gosh, you guys, if u’ve ever heard Imam Siraj speak, you know what an awesome speaker he is, and so u’ll know what I mean when I say I feel like i'm mutilating his speech.....wry smile

Yes. The difference is that if a muslim does something wrong he will feel bad. He’ll know he did something wrong and he will have a heaviness in his heart, he’ll have regrets. You guyz just think-----its true, isn’t it? Everyone has faults, I have them you have them, uh uh I sure do just try following me around for a day or two. Imam------(Imam of one of majids), my dear friend, siraj wahaj hmm and hawing has maybe one fault. Brother-------(someone everyone in our city knows), now he definitely has faults audience laughs So having faults, we are all bound to make ‘mistakes’ at one point or another in our lives. Some of those mistakes will be innocent, and some will be intentional.

The difference between a believer who steals and a nonbeliever who steals is simple. The believer will regret his actions, the believer will ask for forgiveness from Allah swt, the believer will want to make amends, the believer will want to absolve himself of the crime........and the punishment. Do you know that a person who serves the punishment (for a wrong, a crime) in this world, is absolved from answering it on the Day of Judgement?

You all know that there are many countries in the world, perhaps not in Canada, but certainly in the States, where for certain crimes there is capital punishment. In other words, if you commit these crimes your sentence is death. In Islam it is no different, for crimes such as adultery the sentence is death.okay u guys plz lets not get into the technicalities of it here, I just want to relate the hadith imam siraj told us

‘A woman came to the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam saying that she had committed adultery, the woman was with child. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, said to let her to give birth to the child, to let her wean the child. Then to bring her before him. When the time came, the woman was brought before the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, and she was stoned to death. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam then prayed over her body. The people asked him why was he praying over her, was she not one who had committed adultery? The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam replied, he said to them that the woman had made such great repentance, that if it were divided among seventy people of madina it would be sufficient for them. What can you find better than the fact that she gave her life for Allah(swt)?’

Hey guys, i repeat, I did this from memory, so if I make any mistakes, may Allah swt forgive me.

Ps.About the hadith, I’ll look it up and tell you the source later, inshaAllah.

37

A woman came to the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam saying that she had committed adultery, the woman was with child. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, said to let her to give birth to the child, to let her wean the child. Then to bring her before him. When the time came, the woman was brought before the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, and she was stoned to death. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam then prayed over her body. The people asked him why was he praying over her, was she not one who had committed adultery? The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam replied, he said to them that the woman had made such great repentance, that if it were divided among seventy people of madina it would be sufficient for them. What can you find better than the fact that she gave her life for Allah(swt)?’

She gave up her life for Allah...how is that true..she was stoned to death, she was not given any choice, she was killed in most gruesome way. This (story) doesn't make any sense to me, where is the compassion and kindness with which we are supposed to treat everybody. To sin is human to forgive is divine. In US capital punishment is only awarded in first degree murder - when it is proven beyond doubt that the murderer planned and approached the victim with intent to kill him/her.

38

Alright i found the hadith, two versions from Muslim and dawood....

Narrated Imran ibn Husayn:
A woman from Juhaynah came to Allah's Apostle(peace be upon him) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she gives birth bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) pronounced judgment on her. Her clothes were tied around her and then he gave the order and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her although she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than that she sacrificed her life for Allah, the Majestic?(Sahih Muslim)

Narrated Imran ibn Husayn:
A woman belonging to the tribe of Juhaynah (according to the version of Aban) came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said that she had committed fornication and that she was pregnant. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) called her guardian. Then the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said to him: Be good to her, and when she bears a child, bring her (to me). When she gave birth to the child, he brought her (to him). The Prophet (peace be upon him) gave orders regarding her, and her clothes were tied to her. He then commanded regarding her and she was stoned to death. He commanded the people (to pray) and they prayed over her. Thereupon Umar said: Are you praying over her, Apostle of Allah, when she has committed fornication? He said: By Him in Whose hand my soul is, she has repented to such an extent that if it were divided among the seventy people of Medina, it would have been enough for them all. And what do you find better than the fact that she gave her life. Aban did not say in his version: Then her clothes were tied to her.(Abu Dawood)

39

Rani, when it was mentioned that capital punishment was also employed in the united states, it was not to compare the crimes for which it was implemented, i think it was just to maybe elaborate upon the concept of capital punishment itself.....because wry smile u just can't compare the US justice system with Islamic Shariah, it is not so simple, because the Shariah is based according to the will of Allah swt--it is derived from islam, while on america on the other hand is a secular state.

Rani, you ask where is the compassion and kindness. I believe that the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam was one of the most compassionate people on this earth. He was compassionate, he was kind, he was soft, but he was not lax (negligent,careless,etc). And this hadith portrays that clearly.

40

GFQ posted

A woman came to the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam saying that she had committed adultery, the woman was with child. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, said to let her to give birth to the child, to let her wean the child. Then to bring her before him. When the time came, the woman was brought before the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam, and she was stoned to death. The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam then prayed over her body. The people asked him why was he praying over her, was she not one who had committed adultery? The Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam replied, he said to them that the woman had made such great repentance, that if it were divided among seventy people of madina it would be sufficient for them. What can you find better than the fact that she gave her life for Allah(swt)?’

It just does'nt make sense to me. When we talk about the misdeeds of present day muslims, the posters on this bb start jumping up and down by saying that it is upto Allah to judge them, who are we to talk about their gambling, drinking and womanising behaviours.

Also on many occasions it has been mentioned that the holy prophet was only a human being then please tell me, why did he not leave it in the hands of Allah to judge this woman.

Almost all the religions are united on one thing and that is

'Without His will not even a single leaf can move.'

If we were to believe in that theory then it has to be said that the adultry act by that woman was commited and that was what Allah wanted and a precious little life came into being as a result of that adultry act and also it has to be said that it must have been Allah's will also. Oh yes, even the holy prophet ordering the woman to be stoned to death, I suppose that also must have been allah's will!!!

Oh well, if that's what Allah is, who encourages to misbehave first and then gets you killed afterwards, do you really need to pray five times a day to Him?