Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
I believe you but my point is they are not powerful enough to accomplish that.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
Right, and that happens through diplomatic channels. I think you need to see the big picture here. Based on what can neighboring Arab states initiate a diplomatic blockade?
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
I just read the following today - one example of humiliation
I really wanna see the comments of those who believe that Israel is suffering because of Muslim fighters in that area.
*Israel demolishes entire Bedouin village in the Negev*
Press Release, Regional Council for the Unrecognized Villages
6 December 2006
At 5:00am hundreds of police accompanied six bulldozers and demolished 17 homes and three animal shacks in the village of Twail Abu-Jarwal. The entire village is demolished. People are sitting by the piles of tin that were their modest dwellings and wondering what to do, where to go - even their family cannot host them, as no one has a house standing.
This is the fourth time this year that the government demolished in this village. This time they got it "right" - no house is left standing.
But the villagers have nowhere to go to. They lived on the outskirts of the Bedouin town of Laqia, the old folk paid for plots of land to build homes in the 1970s, they still hold on the receipt, hoping someday to receive the plots. For the last 30 years they have been living on land belonging to others, in shacks, the housing becoming ever more crowded, until there was no room left for another baby. They turned to the government for a solution - the option for joining the rest of the residents of Laqia, in a regular house, on a regular plot of land. But the authorities had no options for them. The owners of the land on which they were living requested that they leave - 30 years is enough. So eventually they left back to their own ancestral land - only a couple of miles south of Laqia - by the old ruined school, by their old cemetery. The adult sons built their old mother a modest brick home. The rest built tin shacks.
A year ago the government came and destroyed several houses - including the brick home. Some of the people of Twail Abu Jarwal rebuilt, some moved into more crowded homes with their adult siblings. The government came nine months later and demolished seven more homes. Again, some rebuilt their shacks, some moved in with family. The government came back last month and just to harass, uprooted fences, holding the sheep. And now they came in order to make sure the work is complete.
Israel's Minister of Interior, Roni Bar-On, two days ago was invited to give answers to the Internal Affairs Committee in the Knesset, as to what solutions the government is advancing in order to solve the issue of the unrecognized Bedouin villages in the Negev, and why the government is demolishing homes while these people have no "legal" options for building homes. Bar-On claimed that everything is just fine, he is doing all he can to deal with this issue, but a criminal must be punished, and therefore all the "illegal" Bedouin homes in the must be demolished. He claimed that as far as he is concerned, there are not enough demolitions in the Negev. And now he has proved that he is a man of his word - 17 homes demolished in one foul swoop.
Of the 150,000 Bedouin citizens of Israel living in the Negev, over 50% live in villages that the government as policy has left "unrecognized", meaning that there are no options for building permits, as well as running water, electricity, roads, sewer systems and trash removal, additionally there are very minimal education and health facilities. This policy's aim is to force the Bedouins off their ancestral lands and to concentrate the Bedouins in urban townships, regardless of their wishes or their culture. However, there are also no options for living in the concentration towns the government has built, as there are no available plots of land for homes, as in the case of the families of the Twail abu-Jarwal village. Therefore the government can "legally" demolish the homes of 80,000 members of this community, while they cannot build one "legal" home.""""""
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
They thought that they could destroy the will of the arabs and get peace on their terms but they are realising that will not be possible. They can only get peace on the terms of the Palestinians.
Thats definitely possible if the Arab states would actually do something.
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Half of them r U.S. puppets, most of the rest have their own problems, the ones that r left are seen as evil and have no influence in the world.
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Which is why I said the Palestinians should settle for what they can get before all is lost.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
with all due respect USR, not everyone is too scared to admit their true feelings. if you believe in palestine, then why settle for less? yes the organisation against israel has been somewhat missing but any effort even starting today will yield great results. right now there is more anti israelli activity going on then ever before
as arshad mentioned earlier its only on the palestinian terms that peace is a possibility.
i urge the israellis to make peace quickly before its too late for them!
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
as arshad mentioned earlier its only on the palestinian terms that peace is a possibility.
i urge the israellis to make peace quickly before its too late for them!
Well in that case do you dream for the palestine that displaces the Israel borders or the one actually envisioned by the British including Transjordon or would you stop at their doorstep because they are Arab brethren.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
whatever the palestinians are happy with. will certainly include/parts of jerusalem. it all may need fighting for!
no need to fight with arabs, there on palistinian side. the issues are with israel.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
hehe, this forum got there before the story broke
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\12\09\story_9-12-2006_pg4_18
Palestinians have strategic depth in Iran: Haniyeh
TEHRAN: Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh told Iranians on Friday that Palestinians would never bow to pressure to recognise Israel and would keep fighting thanks in part to support from Iran. “We will never recognise the occupier of the Palestinian lands and will continue the resistance until we liberate Jerusalem … and allow the displaced Palestinians to return to their homeland,” Haniyeh said. “They think that the Palestinian nation is alone in this war, but they are hallucinating … We have a strategic depth here in the Islamic Republic of Iran and throughout the Islamic-Arabic world,” he said. Addressing worshippers at Friday prayers in Tehran, where he arrived on Thursday for a four-day official visit, Haniyeh said Israeli military aggression against Palestinians had increased since his Hamas government took power in March. Haniyeh will meet Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Ahmadinejad as part of his first official trip to Iran. reuters
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
no need to fight with arabs, there on palistinian side. the issues are with israel.
So then what is to become of the Israeli's? Why not fight the Arabs, did they not grab the land that was originally meant for Palestine? Was it not them who left the Palestinians high and dry. Is it not their dream gone sour and whose ill-fate has befell the Palestinians.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
i dont see it like that,
is that your opinion?
israellis have their destiny in their own hands. the lives of jewish people are not in any more risk then arab muslims.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
is that your opinion?
israellis have their destiny in their own hands. the lives of jewish people are not in any more risk then arab muslims.
No that is not my opinion but beneath the madness I am trying to make you realize what it is you are really pursuing and what you think you are pursuing.
Is our history not laden with examples from the Prophet SAW life where peace was always give preference to war or armed conflict? Our ideals today have changed so much that we are not willing to be the first ones to commit to peace.
So tell me to get rid of Israel there are only two ways, population exodus or annihilation and either is not a feasible choice for an existing state. And you still think that anyone will yield to that?
You are mistaken to say Arab muslims, you should say Arab Palestinian muslims and narrow down to reality. All otehr Arab muslims that were involved to displace Israel drew their peace agreements and have on with their political alliances and nation states. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon negotiated and successfully gobled down the East bank, which would have been Palestine but it is fine for Arabs to do it. Or is it really about that only Arabs should be allowed to settle on this land i.e. Pan-Arabism as I had stated before.
You know Israel or Jews were and still are minority of that section of the world surrounded by Arab states, it should have been them who should have been shown some leniency and hopistable attitude instead of what the Arab nations did. I am not pro Israel however not being pro Israel does not I am pro Arab either.
Tell me why can Jews not live there? Tell me are Israeli's lesser human beings than Arabs? Let us leave faith out it because it never was the case to begin with in this war.
Tell me if Israel was allowed to be created with good relations to all its neighboring Arab states, what harm would it have brought?
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
Is our history not laden with examples from the Prophet SAW life where peace was always give preference to war or armed conflict? Our ideals today have changed so much that we are not willing to be the first ones to commit to peace.
So tell me to get rid of Israel there are only two ways, population exodus or annihilation and either is not a feasible choice for an existing state. And you still think that anyone will yield to that?
You are mistaken to say Arab muslims, you should say Arab Palestinian muslims and narrow down to reality. All otehr Arab muslims that were involved to displace Israel drew their peace agreements and have on with their political alliances and nation states. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon negotiated and successfully gobled down the East bank, which would have been Palestine but it is fine for Arabs to do it. Or is it really about that only Arabs should be allowed to settle on this land i.e. Pan-Arabism as I had stated before.
You know Israel or Jews were and still are minority of that section of the world surrounded by Arab states, it should have been them who should have been shown some leniency and hopistable attitude instead of what the Arab nations did. I am not pro Israel however not being pro Israel does not I am pro Arab either.
Tell me why can Jews not live there? Tell me are Israeli's lesser human beings than Arabs? Let us leave faith out it because it never was the case to begin with in this war.
Tell me if Israel was allowed to be created with good relations to all its neighboring Arab states, what harm would it have brought?
your vision is peaceful and well intended but fatally false, im afraid. absolutely no offence intended but every paragraph in your post above is distorted, thought is either missing, situations misjudged, or my views mis-intrepited but all well intended or atleast from where you see it. good intentions are often manipulated, re indian raj, african slaves, palestine 1890's - 1948. i'd be happy to see peace in m east come easilly.
im not taking your perceptions seriously, im not even sure whether youve been following these issues to any depth but i will answer the questions posed
*Tell me why can Jews not live there? *
no reason to deny them for just being jewish.
*Tell me are Israeli's lesser human beings than Arabs? *
no, but you tell me if arabs are lesser then israellis.
Let us leave faith out it because it never was the case to begin with in this war.
no probs, it was wrong because it was wrong and now an iconic struggle with jews, muslims, nations, all supporting a side and more and more jumping in! you can join in too. if you dont want to to do it for palis, or arabs or iran or egypt, or meddina or lebanon, or syria, bangladesh, iraq, algeria, do it for pakistan.
Tell me if Israel was allowed to be created with good relations to all its neighboring Arab states, what harm would it have brought?
no harm
heres my challenge to you. think what would be acceptable to palistinians (if you find it hard to see past hamas, see arafats wishes) and try to figure out if world powers, israel and crew will allow peace.
they have a gun on the table
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
Reply to #53 by US Resident:
I agree that Israel is now a reality and the Arabs must accept it. But if you look at the history of the conflict, Zionists are more to blame than Arabs. In 1917 British arbitrarily passed Balfour Declaration and promised Zionists their historical homeland in Palestine. Brits did this to gain the support of rich and powerful Zionist lobby around the world in their war against Germany and Austria. Another reason was to guard the Suez canal and oil resources of Arabs by implanting a colony of Zionists among them.
Even now Israel is playing a hegemonic role in the region. It is Israel who has occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights. Whenever you see a conflict in which there are two parties, the fault most often lies with the stronger of the two. And if the stronger party honestly tries to resolve the issue, I don't see why can't they resolve it?
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
If you think history starts from there then you may be correct. However the only Islamic caliphate in the world came to an end (if not sooner than later) because of the Arab betrayal to the Ottoman caliphate. The Arabs did not like being second class citizens in the Turkish dominant empire. The reason for their betrayal was to consolidate an Arab federation, so it was all about Arabs from the beginning of it. If it were about Islam they would not have played a part in helping to bring down the shallow but only remaining Islamic empire in the world. The brits made promises to both Zionists and Arabs to gain their support during the war. Had the Arab leaders taken into account the persecution of the Jews and let them have a safe haven amongst them Middle East today would be a different story. The legacy of past mistakes has not yet been abandoned though.
Let us not forget Israel was not as strong it is now 50 years ago. Tell me what have the Arabs achieved or offered to the world since their inception on the world map after Israel was created as compared to Israel if you leave out the war between the two.
Whether someone likes to admit this or not the Arabs have been just as bad as the Israeli's. No one is an angel here.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
im not taking your perceptions seriously, im not even sure whether youve been following these issues to any depth but i will answer the questions posed
The views are neutral not one sided. Issues are resolved from the broader perspective not itty bitty details to start out with. Please faltter yourself either by claiming that you know much indepth. People indepth are the ones who often don't realize the reality of the bigger picture.
no reason to deny them for just being jewish.
Then why do we want them pushed out.
no, but you tell me if arabs are lesser then israellis.
Its a status quo both have maintained. Who can you blame?
no probs, it was wrong because it was wrong and now an iconic struggle with jews, muslims, nations, all supporting a side and more and more jumping in! you can join in too. if you dont want to to do it for palis, or arabs or iran or egypt, or meddina or lebanon, or syria, bangladesh, iraq, algeria, do it for pakistan.
Its about right ore wrong. Its about acceptance on one another.
no harm
Other than the fact that it undermines the Palestinian mess, which its neighboring Arab states have created and leaving have established their own nation states now.
they have a gun on the table
Why don't you lay down the wishes here and I will definitely express my views rather than go trekking which opinions you are refering to.
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Hahahahah
Yes, brilliant Iranians. Any Iranians going to die? No. They will send money and arms, but they expect the Palestnians to die by the thousands while Iranians have Plastic Surgery and spend their oil money on weapons.
Palestinians have become the sacrificial lambs of the Arab world. They are now Disposable Muslims, only valued when they kill Jews. Do you think Iran would jeopardize their homes? Just toss the Palestinians some spare change and watch them like a Pit Bull fight.
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The best strategy that Palestinians have today is to create a non-violent movement. No amount of violence either alone or with a group of arab states is feasible. Rightly or wrongky the world opinion is firmly against Muslims and each act of violence whether defensive or punitive is considered offensive. Opinion makers such as Jimmy Carter and "neutral" states such as Egypt can help.
Re: New Way of Pressure and Destroying ..
so we have the solution according to the last three posters:
palistinians should aceept what they have, love israel and all will be well
great, except this isnt what the palistinians, iran, myself or hundreds of millions of others were hoping for.
theres actually only one way ahead
for muslims to take on israel, accept the challenge not the current plight
why do you think israel and gang are doing their utmost to stop this right now, because the whole episode is at that most important juncture where any further development would start eating away at israelli,US power
if youve not got bottle for the future, then thats your problem. dont encourage cowardice to others. palestine will demand its rights, iran wont be the only nation willing to take on israel, US gang. peaceloving arabs with trademark muslim mindset of not building military stockpiles and ambitions have tried in the past and failled. they get my full respect
everyone should choose which side of the fence they sit on, if palistinian then say it clearly. if you prefer the borders as they are today then you are on the israelli side, if you think palestinians are terrorists you are an honoury israelli and just like them have no compassion.
israel knows what it must do, until it does its full steam ahead for muslims.