Need some advice please!

Lifestyle Relationships
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Do an istikharah. Seriously. Everything will become clear. Inshallah.

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Re: Need some advice please!

It pains me greatly to have to read some of the rather selfish comments being made on this thread. I in no way mean to offend OP or the posters here but let me say one thing. Why is the guy being ostracized here? Is it because he doesn't have lots of money and he can't afford to come to the States? Why must a man have a lot of money to prove his self worth? How would you see the guy if he has lots of property in Pakistan and comes from an industrial factory owing background? I'm sure at this point you would eliminate all the qualms and accept him. Then the argument would be "Oh he doesn't really need to work, he has all the money and he can use that to start a business". You cannot know anyone unless you give them a chance to prove their worth. Ok so the guy studied human resources, ok he doesn't have lots of money, alright so what if he wants to come to the States? Doesn't he have dreams, just because he didn't become a doctor all of the sudden his right to marry or love is being questioned?

His love is being measured by the amount of money he can make? So what if you marry a Quantum physicist who has contributed to the sciences so much that they are about to make him in to some sort of a Science god and he makes 200,000 a year. But what if he treats you like crap then what? Would you be willing to over look that fact just because his income would suffice for his actions? Or would you rather spend your time with someone who genuinely accepts you and respects you and loves you as a woman whom helped him when he needed you the most. See men don't forget their mohsins easily. We remember who've helped us. Now I know there is a chance that this guy might leave you when he comes here, but he's not constantly after you to get the VISA or ticket to USA.

Now you say that he's Shareef and the only thing he has to show for himself is his Shareefness. I guess gone are the days when people actually cared about how a personal was morally and not just financially. You haven't given him a chance to prove his self worth. Let me tell you a story of my uncle. My uncle came to the States when he was 17. He studied architecture but couldn't really go through with the degree because he had to work and provide for his family in Pakistan. He stopped school and then girl who was with him left him because she thought that he would amount to anything. But he didn't let anything come in his way, he worked hard doing whatever jobs that he could and eventually opened his own business. He's a successful man now and happily married. A degree in something doesn't necessarily mean that you will be successful it just means that it'll be just easier cause you'll sit on a desk and get a marginally good check than some blue collar guy working with his hands. But then again that's just my opinion.

I understand that you don't want to help him come here. You want him to somehow magically come to the States. Do you know how difficult it is for people in Pakistan to come to the States? Do you know how difficult the authorities have made it for people to come here? If you'll help him come here, you'll be helping another human being, why don't people look at it that way? Why have we become so selfish and superficial? What happened to giving a chance to fate and not ROBOTIC lifestyle? What happened to letting destiny take it's path and enjoying the experience life gives you. I don't mean to be rude but you're 30 and you're not getting any younger. Now guys that will agree to marry you will be in their late 30s to mid 40s. If this guy is around your age and he likes you then why not just give him a chance?

Again I don't mean to be disrespectful and if you feel offended I apologize in advance.

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Re: Need some advice please!

Yeah ignore him and marry me.

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Re: Need some advice please!

McPendo's is heavy stuff. Quite noble in fact.

But we are selfish. And do look out for our interest. Ask yourself what your parents would advise you to do. That is the bottom line. If u have siblings ur age ask them what they would want u to do.

Good luck.

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Re: Need some advice please!

Hi McPendom

Thank you very much for your insight. I assure you that I’m not offended by anything you said as these are all thoughts that I’ve had. I was really hoping that someone would defend him, just one person but everyone was eager to throw this guy under the train.

I don’t think he’s being ostracized because he doesn’t have lots of money (and that’s certainly not why I’m not ready to marry him). It wouldn’t matter if he had tons of property in Pakistan etc. What bothers me is his lack of ambition. He keeps saying that I motivate him and I make him want to be a better person but he’s never actually done anything to support his words.

And yes, he absolutely deservesto have dreams. Everyone does. I had, and still have, lots of dreams. Everyone wants a shot at having a good lifeand there’s nothing wrong with that but again, what makes me hesitant is that he’s 31 and hasn’t actually accomplished much. What if he never does? He’s never had a decent job and doesn’t have anything close to a career. I want someone who genuinely loves me and part of me thinks he does simply because he’s been pursuing me for such a long time. When we first time, he lived abroad while I was in the Middle East with my family and he never accused me ofbeing interested in him for that reason but for some reason, I feel like it has eventually come to this point: he wants me to sponsor him and bring him herebut there’s no guarantee that he’ll make the effort to do anything with his life.

His shareefness is the only thing that has prevented me from ending this. He has never once said anything inappropriate to me in 4 years and that’s huge. I guess what scares me is that although I haven’t given him a chance to prove his self-worth, I’m afraid that he won’t do anything.

And it’s not that I don’t want to help him come here; I hope I didn’t come across as arrogant. Allah has blessed me with so much and I trymy best to remember that but I’m angry at him because 4 years ago, when he wasin England, I told him to apply for Canadian immigration. It was the perfect opportunity for him,especially since it’s very difficult to get British citizenship. He refused to listen and eventually,everything I said came true. His study permit expired, he had to leave and now he’s stuck in Pakistan. And now, he wants me to bail him out.

Your final point about me being 30 and not getting any younger is 100% true. I think about that all the time. I have a guy who seems to like me and wants to get married yet I can’tdo it. I try to think about what he’s offering me as a potential husband and what bothers me and I don’t know if I’m being super picky or rightfully cautious. Why can’t he be more ambitious? Why does he say he can’t do anything if I’m not in his life? If he doesn’t do something with it soon, I see no reason to be in it.

I really hope you’ll reply; I’dlove to hear from you again!

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Re: Need some advice please!

McPendo, it is not the lack of money that is the issue...but rather a lack of drive. People experience financial ups and downs...but when things are rough and the person doesn't want to work hard for the stability of their family...that's problematic. Also, I think the OP's post was worrying. Apart from "shareefness" she hadn't mentioned any other virtues of his...she focused quite a bit on his lack of will power and it can create resentment in a marriage if one partner feels that they're shouldering most of the responsibilities. She loves that he respects her, but she needs to ask herself if she fully respects him. If one feels some contempt for another person...or doesn't fully respect them...then is that a healthy foundation for a marriage? Receiving attention from someone is flattering, but the gaps in communication may not be such a good sign. I don't know if perhaps the guy is trying his hardest...but hasn't found a good job in Pakistan (lack of scope, etc). That might be something for OP to consider. I suggested that OP can talk to the guy about her concerns tactfully to get some direction based on his response. I think that Muspus gave good advice. It's unfortunate that Desis have made a maddening, cringe-inducing mess out of the istikhara process, but when done simply....it can provide direction.

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Re: Need some advice please!

Time and again, the discussions over here prove the stereotypes are very much alive and we live with these YET people starts complaining about double standards when it does not suit them.

If it was a girl who was not ambitious about a career, people will tell to go ahead without batting an eye. Bcoz thats what is expected of men. Double standards may be but girls want to marry a person who isn't sitting at home and depending upon wife or in laws to feed him.

Now boys (mostly) don't want to marry a slut.

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Re: Need some advice please!

What actions of his will prove that he is motivated? Ambitious towards what? It is all coming back to the same point and that is him not earning enough. I think you have a problem that he lacks individuality. It is sad that we think our home, career, friends, family, and what we own define who we are and our self-worth. When in fact, none of those things and people really make us who we are. They make us like everyone else. It is people who are content with having little that we should learn from not the other way around. It is the happy weirdos and seemingly losers who love life and demand nothing from it. Now they know what’s up!

Also, isn’t it wonderful that he values your presence in his life so much that he says he literally feels empty without you? Maybe you should stay because you can make him see the world through your eyes and he can make you see it through his.

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Re: Need some advice please!

Yes, this is it! It's not the money but the lack of drive to do anything. He says I motivate him to be a better person and he'll find a good job after we get married. Isn't that the wrong way around? Don't most guys want to get a decent job so they can get married? And if I truly motivate him, why doesn't he do something now? Why do we have to get married for him to do something?
To answer your question redvelvet, I don't think I fully respect him. It scares me that 4 years have gone by and he has nothing to show. He doesn't have to be rolling in money but did he excel in anything? Even a hobby or something on the side? Nope. I think this is the core of the issue: he seems to be content with his life i.e. low-paid jobs and living an extremely simple life. I'm not looking to marry a pile of money but I've worked hard and I want to maintain the lifestyle I've created. Plus, I eventually want to have kids and spend a few years home with tthem and I want to marry someone who will allow to afford such a luxury.

I've tried talking to him and it always ends with him saying that he wants to marry me and he'll become a different person then. He needs me, I motivate him etc etc.....sounds like bs to me. I don't want him to become a different person. I just want him to get a decent job!

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Re: Need some advice please!

It's true. I know tons of friends whose goal was to get married. They finished their undergraduate and no cared that they hadn't done anything or had no experience in the real world. They were young and got married super easily. But it's different with guys; if my husband goes through a rough patch, I'd support him 100% because I know that he's capable of getting back on his feet. With this guy, he's never been on his feet so why would I willingly marry him knowing that I could be in for a lifetime of financial woes?

This thread is amazing! Every time I think I've made a decision, someone says something which makes me start thinking all over again!!

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Re: Need some advice please!

Ambitious towards having a decent life and not working at low-paying jobs and living hand to mouth. Again, I'm not looking for a millionaire but financial security is very important for girls. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. You know how guys want to be able to date as many girls as they want but then marry a girl straight from the Kaaba? Similarly, girls want to marry a guy who they know will be able to take care of them.

Of course it's wondering that he values me so much. Every time he says it, I melt. It's like something straight out of a chick flick but what about all the realistic stuff that comes with love and marriage? Everything that we've been discussing. This is why I posted here....I'm so confused!!!!!

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Re: Need some advice please!

Thank you everyone for your input. This is a very helpful and informative discussion. I've one istikhara many times and I'm just waiting to see where Allah takes me.

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Re: Need some advice please!

I don't know what's so confusing about this. All the arguments telling you to go for this guy are purely emotional/idealistic points. His shareefness/love/devotion is not going to pay the bills or take care of your AND your future children in case of emergencies. I know plenty of couples where the wife is the primary bread winner and the husband is incapable/unwilling to make enough money where the wife can quit her job or work part-time.....its a crappy situation. Its one thing to marry someone and have something happen in the future where he can't work/support the family financially.......but it is outright stupid to enter a marriage where a man already in his 30's doesn't have a stable job and isn't even in school pursuing education where he is sure to get a job in a few years.

All the fluffy feel good emotions are great.....but lack of compatibility, stress from finances etc. are reasons that lead to a unhappy marriage and/or divorce. Its easy for us to advise you b/c none of us will have to deal with the consequences. Whether you continue to stay single......or end up in a unhappy marriage......at the end, YOU will have to live with your decision. So you need to ask what you're willing to deal with.....being single or being in a unhappy marriage. You may "love" this guy but you do not respect him as a man. Whether that's right or wrong is not the issue here.......the bottom line is that you do not respect him as your equal. And I have yet to see/hear about a couple that's happy in a marriage where one partner does not respect the other one.

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Re: Need some advice please!

I don't think you shud reconsider your decision I am merely pointing out why some people here claim double standards but display it themselves all the time.

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Re: Need some advice please!

I don't think it's about double standards at all. First of all ambition is all about personal preference, for example, the majority of men in my family wanted to marry an 'ambitious' girl. 'Ambitious' to them didn't mean she had to be loaded or even that she had a full time job, but that she had some goals in life other than getting married and raising a family, whether that was a job, or hobby, or volunteering,etc. The remaining men in my family had a preference for girls who were more homely and really only wanted to focus on family. The same rule applies to women, again a certain percentage will prefer someone who is ambitious and has goals in their life and others might not be so concerned about it.

Personally I think there is value in a person who strives for some sort of goal in life and is willing to put in the work and effort to achieve it. It's obviously also easier if both parties in a couple are able to stand on their own two feet so if you do encounter unforeseen circumstances you have the support you need vs. just one person carrying the burden of supporting a family. But like I said this is a personal preference, and I know many men who feel this way about women as well. I don't think it has anything to do with being a male or female.

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Re: Need some advice please!

The whole sponsoring thing is making me go meh. A lot pakistani boys in dead end jobs seem to think America is the golden goose they've been waiting for. The thing is they don't realise that the hardwork and work ethic is just as necessary in the US as it was in Pakistan. Just make sure this guy isn't expecting some miracles.

At some point he will be unemployed after you get married and he moves countries. If being the primary breadwinner is not too much pressure then think about it. Although any time you have kids you will still have to juggle two jobs at once. Guy can't get pregnant, can't breastfeed so you might even need to take an unpaid maternity leave.

You've ended the relationship way before the whole job issue appeared so that's a massive red flag as it is.

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Re: Need some advice please!

I was merely pointing out that boys and girls are often judged based on "different" standards. Different things are expected from them.

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Re: Need some advice please!

The reason why people don't bat an eye if a girl chooses to be a housewife is because that is a job in itself, it's not a double standard. Women are still required to be on duty after their 9-5 job ends when they come home, otherwise who's going to clean and cook? And to be honest, there are a lot of men who don't want their wife out working ...that type exist as well.

Also, it's not the guy's finances or lack thereof that is the problem. The main problem the OP has is his "lack of drive and ambition". To be honest, people living abroad know how much more difficult it is to manage the home, family and career. * It's not like life in Pakistan where even middle class families can afford gher ki maasi coming over to clean and that's a norm. The women also work very hard, and nowadays to be able to even afford a comfortable home, and enough to run a household with kids requires that most couples work. Not just the man. Sometimes it's not a matter of choice but what makes the household function. My husband earns less than me and when I married him he was navigating his way through Canada and how life is here. I never once thought "hey I should have just married a rich Canadian born like me."

It's not about the money, it's about the effort and drive that he puts into his life and day to day work. I know he might be a shareef and good guy, but he's not doing anything in Pakistan to suggest that he's taking his life seriously. It just seems like he's using her to bail him out of his situation which is not okay. Many girls from abroad sponsor men from Pakistan/India and there's nothing wrong with that, but at the moment he's just painting a lovely picture for her of their future without realizing the amount of effort or hard work it takes to build that future.*

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Re: Need some advice please!

Then they should have it themselves. Like you do already! Why do you need it from someone else when you have it already? That's the point. If you want something, go get it. Don't expect it from someone else or relationships. Unmet expectations are the biggest marriage killer. Your analogy of guys wanting to date as many girls is incorrect. It's more like guys want prettier women, while women want financial security. Whatever they do before marriage doesn't really matter afterwards, it's what you wake up to every morning.

Edit: Read about him being in Pakistan. That to me is the deciding factor but that's just me. The whole situation means that you could be getting manipulated and you may not ever find out his true intentions. It's like how people behave during job interviews and say stuff they know is not true about them. Move on.

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Re: Need some advice please!

Ok, I missed the part about him being sponsored. I don't believe in importing brides or grooms. Changes the game significantly when intentions are clouded and you can't see through the person. It's definitely not good.*