Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

[Xtron]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

^Yes even i have same concern..however..lets give peace a chance as well. And i won’t be suprised if they’ll ask to implement their version of sharia which will give them chance to regroup. Govt..must be careful. By that ..i mean.. PTI as well as PMLN.

With that said above..i was very encourage to hear from Dr. Shireen from PTI that..Govt will only would negotiate with people who accepts the writ of the government.

PTI to cooperate with govt in tackling terrorism, says Shireen | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

[Jolie]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

@rangoli

I find it rather shameful to negotiate with these savages, state had tried to make peace deals with them earlier as well, any good come out of it? did they disarm themselves? the answer is NO! these savages do not even believe in democracy/schooling of girls and the list can go on and on. Why don't they first try to come up with a clear strategy against terrorism, over ten years gone by and the govt/army could not even come up with a proper strategy to counter terrorism. and now NS trying to negotiate with them, which was a given, no surprise here!

Who are Taliban? Where they originate from? Why are they at war with USA? Are Taliban are at war with Pakistan in the first place because they hate democracy/girls school/women driving/hockey players baring their legs or because they were simply punishing Pakistan for being America's ally?

What peace deals are you talking about? There was never any genuine attempt by the state to make peace deal with Taliban, even on paper no deal could materialise until Pakistan was officially at war against them. Its no secret that Pakistan's alliance with US had always been the main obstacle in the way of peace and now that US is leaving the region and calling it a day on WoT, there is every chance that peace deal will produce the desired effect and that is peace!

[Jolie]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

@Xtron

^Yes even i have same concern..however..lets give peace a chance as well. And i won’t be suprised if they’ll ask to implement their version of sharia which will give them chance to regroup. Govt..must be careful. By that ..i mean.. PTI as well as PMLN.

With that said above..i was very encourage to hear from Dr. Shireen from PTI that..Govt will only would negotiate with people who accepts the writ of the government.

PTI to cooperate with govt in tackling terrorism, says Shireen | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

Pakistan is going for these peace talk with a belief (and a right one that) that Taliban belongs to Afghanistan and its an Afghan problem. If the Taliban want to implement their version of Shariah law in *Afghanistan, *then how is this any of Pakistan’s or PMLN’s concern? Its about time we should really stop giving a damn about what Afghans do in Afghanistan: their country, their people, their laws and their system. Besides, there are over 50 (or God knows how many) Muslim countries in the world, they can all have a go at policing Afghanistan in the name of Islam, we are not the only *thakkaydaar *of ummah. Our aim should be to put our own house in order and contain Taliban influence in Afghanistan by liberally drawing the iron curtains on our Northern borders.

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

Home of Mujahahideen and Taliban
Since Zia era
They have killed around forty thousand Pakistanis during last ten years
See clear . Akora Khattak of Sami ul Haq , Where killers of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto gathered , Where son of Gailini was hided

http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCuDhTIwCB-uTN7&w=155&h=114&url=http%3A%2F%2Fe.jang.com.pk%2F05-26-2013%2Fpindi%2Fimages%2F625.gif

[khoji]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

@Jolie

Pakistan is going for these peace talk with a belief (and a right one that) that Taliban belongs to Afghanistan and its an Afghan problem.

That is an absolutely naive and ignorant statement. Taliban problem is as much a Pakistan's problem as Afghanistan's. The extremists cross the borders all the time. And they share the same cause. To occupy these two countries and implement their brand of khariji 'shariah'.

[Jolie]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

That is an absolutely naive and ignorant statement. Taliban problem is as much a Pakistan's problem as Afghanistan's. The extremists cross the borders all the time. And they share the same cause. To occupy these two countries and implement their brand of khariji 'shariah'.

After 12 years of war, it is absolutely naive and ignorant to assume that Taliban are simply one single entity. While in fact they are now divided into so many small sub-groups with different aims; different methodology; different source of funding etc etc, some are fighting small regional battles while others have a bigger agenda. So those Talibans who simply fighting Pakistan for being an American ally or fighting Pakistan so it recognizes them as legitimate authority in Afghanistan (yes such group does indeed exist) then thats mainly Afghanistan's problem. If Karazi's government has agreed to reconcile with them, the US plus the international community as recognized them as stakeholders in Afghanistan, its pointless for Pakistan to keep fighting these animals at the expense slaughtering its own citizens especially after the NATO forces leave. Pakistan has nothing to lose by signing ceasefire with Taliban who have Afghan centric demands but Pakistan will continue its battle against those group who challenge government's writ in Pakistan and create crisis in the country, both PTI and PMLN are in total agreement on this.

Simply indulging in paranoia is just silly, it makes one's views look baseless and outdated. I hope you'd watched the Capital Talk on 24th May where all major parties presented comprehensive and well researched policies to define the peace process. Those policies and reasonings were far from the same old sh** MQM goons feed their slavish supporters. I suggest you watch the programe and appreciate the complex yet workable approach to finally solve this bloody conflict.

[Sohaib]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

After 12 years of war, it is absolutely naive and ignorant to assume that Taliban are simply one single entity. While in fact they are now divided into so many small sub-groups with different aims; different methodology; different source of funding etc etc, some are fighting small regional battles while others have bigger agenda. So those Talibans who simply fighting Pakistan for being an American ally or fighting Pakistan so it recognizes them as legitimate authority in Afghanistan (yes such group does indeed exist) than thats mainly Afghanistan's problem. If Karazi's government has agreed to reconcile with them, the US plus the international community as recognized them as stakeholders in Afghanistan, its pointless for Pakistan to keep fighting these animals at the expense slaughtering its own citizens especially when the NATO forces leave. Pakistan has nothing to lose by signing ceasefire with Taliban who have Afghan centric demands but Pakistan will continue its battle against those group who challenge government's writ in Pakistan and create crisis in the country, both PTI and PMLN are on totally agreement on this.

This! Well put Jolie.

[Zain999]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

@khoji

Just as expected, the first thing that comes from his mouth is the desire to start talks with Taliban.
Some people never learn from past mistakes. Now they will achieve ‘peace’ after giving in to demands of extremist khawarij groups in Pakistan.

Bad sign for common Muslims in Pakistan. Nawaz is going to strengthen Taliban ranks and give them a moral boost by listening to their “demands”.

Nawaz Sharif calls for Taliban talks | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

**LAHORE: Pakistan’s prime minister-elect Nawaz Sharif Monday called for peace talks with Pakistani Taliban militants at war with the government, potentially charting a course that could put him at odds with the country’s powerful army.
**
Speaking to the newly elected members of national and provincial assemblies belonging to Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N), he said that Taliban offers to talk should be taken seriously.
Nawaz Sharif said ”terrorism” was one of the most serious problems plaguing the country and any offer by the Pakistani Taliban to talk ”should be taken seriously.”
”All options should be tried, and guns are not a solution to all problems,” Sharif said. ”Why shouldn’t we sit and talk, engage in dialogue?”

I agree, no hope for Pakistan at all if Nawaz gives the Taliban recognition by committing to “talks” with them.

They are a bunch of tribal war lords who should never have gained the position of power that they currently have.

Unfortunately, they maintain close links with the Pakistani Military (who everyone knows, have the majority power over Pakistan). It is not as simple as using the military to gain power over the Taliban in Pakistan, because the government do not control the military. They may as well be an independent body.

Pakistan is lost to hands of its military and as much as Nawaz thinks he can gain control of his country, he is sadly fighting a lost cause

[Zain999]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

Pakistan is going for these peace talk with a belief (and a right one that) that Taliban belongs to Afghanistan and its an Afghan problem. If the Taliban want to implement their version of Shariah law in *Afghanistan, *then how is this any of Pakistan's or PMLN's concern? Its about time we should really stop giving a damn about what Afghans do in Afghanistan: their country, their people, their laws and their system. Besides, there are over 50 (or God knows how many) Muslim countries in the world, they can all have a go at policing Afghanistan in the name of Islam, we are not the only *thakkaydaar *of ummah. Our aim should be to put our own house in order and contain Taliban influence in Afghanistan by liberally drawing the iron curtains on our Northern borders.
[/QUOTE]

Jolie - you are incorrect. The fact is that the Taliban were indeed born in Afghanistan. However, they did receive funding at times from the Pakistani military. It is not as black and white as saying that Pakistan are not involved and in no way responsible for the spread and escalation of the Taliban regime. The pakistani government knew all along what these tribal warlords stood for - Hatred, hatred of the common muslim, hatred of democracy, hatred of peace, hatred of women, love of violence, love of evil. Yet , they did nothing to contain them in Afghanistan, and infact they harboured them while the US were bombing the Afghans.

Do you honestly think that the Pakistani intelligence (ruled by its military) was unaware of Osama hiding in Islamabad? They were harbouring him.

However, the government couldnt care less because they have never been in control of their military. A military who work independently and with whom, the government have to cut deals. What the military say...goes. And unfortunately, there are deep connections in the military forces with certain members of the taliban.

The taliban may have begun with being an Afghan problem... but Pakistan opened its gates to them. And now look at the situation. They occupy the Swat valley and they are influencing uneducated folks , illiterate folks into their path of wrong doing. Pakistan, with all its poverty is the perfect breeding ground for the taliban,

So in response to your post - the reason why the government are now trying to negotiate and begin talks with the Taliban is because they want peace - yes. BUT , it is also because they have no control over the situation and they are unable to take a hard line against this type of evil activity in their country.. they have no power. And its their own fault for neglecting the situation and being so naiive.

The reason why the Taliban are "punishing' pakistani's is not because of Pakistan's alliance with the US. It is simply because they are a bunch of uneducated tribal warlords who's only intent is violence, evil, power, control, dictatorship, inflicting fear and spreading immoral behaviour in the name of islam.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE OR LOGICAL, RATIONAL BEHIND THEIR ACTIVITY. YOU CANNOT REASON WITH THEM. And you cannot try to blame Pakistan's so-called alliance with the US for the behaviour of psychopaths who fight without a cause, and who's only intent is inflict pain and suffering on innocent people.

[waleedhbk]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

After 12 years of war, it is absolutely naive and ignorant to assume that Taliban are simply one single entity. While in fact they are now divided into so many small sub-groups with different aims; different methodology; different source of funding etc etc, some are fighting small regional battles while others have a bigger agenda. So those Talibans who simply fighting Pakistan for being an American ally or fighting Pakistan so it recognizes them as legitimate authority in Afghanistan (yes such group does indeed exist) then thats mainly Afghanistan's problem. If Karazi's government has agreed to reconcile with them, the US plus the international community as recognized them as stakeholders in Afghanistan, its pointless for Pakistan to keep fighting these animals at the expense slaughtering its own citizens especially after the NATO forces leave. Pakistan has nothing to lose by signing ceasefire with Taliban who have Afghan centric demands but Pakistan will continue its battle against those group who challenge government's writ in Pakistan and create crisis in the country, both PTI and PMLN are in total agreement on this.

Simply indulging in paranoia is just silly, it makes one's views look baseless and outdated. I hope you'd watched the Capital Talk on 24th May where all major parties presented comprehensive and well researched policies to define the peace process. Those policies and reasonings were far from the same old sh** MQM goons feed their slavish supporters. I suggest you watch the programe and appreciate the complex yet workable approach to finally solve this bloody conflict.

Jolie Y U No Become Our PM :(

[khoji]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

After 12 years of war, it is absolutely naive and ignorant to assume that Taliban are simply one single entity. While in fact they are now divided into so many small sub-groups with different aims; different methodology; different source of funding etc etc, some are fighting small regional battles while others have a bigger agenda. So those Talibans who simply fighting Pakistan for being an American ally or fighting Pakistan so it recognizes them as legitimate authority in Afghanistan (yes such group does indeed exist) then thats mainly Afghanistan's problem.

That is what the problem with Imran, Nawaz and their followers is. They don't understand that the brand name might be different but the generic formula is same. They waste their time making distinction between TTP, Afghan Taliban, Qaeda, ASWJ, Haqqani network etc. But in reality they all follow same khariji ideology. Even when their immediate goals differ, they help each other in all ways possible whenever the need be.

So 'Taliban' is a blanket term I use. But the concern is actually about everyone with khariji mindset.

[quote]
If Karazi's government has agreed to reconcile with them, the US plus the international community as recognized them as stakeholders in Afghanistan, its pointless for Pakistan to keep fighting these animals at the expense slaughtering its own citizens especially after the NATO forces leave. Pakistan has nothing to lose by signing ceasefire with Taliban who have Afghan centric demands but Pakistan will continue its battle against those group who challenge government's writ in Pakistan and create crisis in the country, both PTI and PMLN are in total agreement on this.
[/quote]

Whether Karzai or US, their first demand before negotiations is for Taliban to give up their arms and join the democratic system. If Pakistan government also keeps this demand then it is ok to talk to them.

[khoji]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

Jolie Y U No Become Our PM :(

Isn't Nawaz already willing to talk to khawarij, enemies of Islam and Pakistan? Why do you need Jolie then?

[khoji]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

I agree, no hope for Pakistan at all if Nawaz gives the Taliban recognition by committing to "talks" with them.

They are a bunch of tribal war lords who should never have gained the position of power that they currently have.

Unfortunately, they maintain close links with the Pakistani Military (who everyone knows, have the majority power over Pakistan). It is not as simple as using the military to gain power over the Taliban in Pakistan, because the government do not control the military. They may as well be an independent body.

Pakistan is lost to hands of its military and as much as Nawaz thinks he can gain control of his country, he is sadly fighting a lost cause

Thanks for looking through Nawaz's desire of surrendering Pakistan's future at the hands of extremism.
About Nawaz's fighting a lost cause, I think it is actually Nawaz's own cause. He has dictatorial tendencies since beginning. He called himself Amirul Momineen before. And Shahbaz publicly said that PMLN and Taliban have mutual cause.

[khoji]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

The reason why the Taliban are "punishing' pakistani's is not because of Pakistan's alliance with the US. It is simply because they are a bunch of uneducated tribal warlords who's only intent is violence, evil, power, control, dictatorship, inflicting fear and spreading immoral behaviour in the name of islam.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE OR LOGICAL, RATIONAL BEHIND THEIR ACTIVITY. YOU CANNOT REASON WITH THEM. And you cannot try to blame Pakistan's so-called alliance with the US for the behaviour of psychopaths who fight without a cause, and who's only intent is inflict pain and suffering on innocent people.

Very nicely said.

[Jolie]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

That is what the problem with Imran, Nawaz and their followers is. They don't understand that the brand name might be different but the generic formula is same. They waste their time making distinction between TTP, Afghan Taliban, Qaeda, ASWJ, Haqqani network etc. But in reality they all follow same khariji ideology. Even when their immediate goals differ, they help each other in all ways possible whenever the need be.

So 'Taliban' is a blanket term I use. But the concern is actually about everyone with khariji mindset.

Dude you need to seriously let go with your infatuation with bunch of politicians and actually research, study and update yourself with the current situation from all corners with an open mind. Sometimes I wonder whether you are remotely in favour of seeing peace in Pakistan because all you do is promote same old war mongering rhetoric. Its not about what ideology they follow, its about how the army and the intelligence can break their network and support system by taking advantages of whatever differences that exists between those groups. The differences are maybe minor according to you but its upto the Allies how they decide to take the maximum benefits out of those difference. What exactly do you want Allies to do? What would you say that Pakistan should do if the intelligence say some of those groups or certain fractions of those groups are indeed willing to disarm and come to the negotiation stable?

You honestly need to stop beating the same old drum and truly educate yourself about the current situation. You just comes across as a deeply paranoid individual who basically talk fear and nothing else.

I don't know whether I should just laugh or feel sorry for someone who believes a mere politician can change the face of a global conflict or its the civilian head of state who decides policies for Pakistan army and the intelligence. Yeah right.... LOL

[Jolie]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

[QUOTE]

Pakistan is going for these peace talk with a belief (and a right one that) that Taliban belongs to Afghanistan and its an Afghan problem. If the Taliban want to implement their version of Shariah law in *Afghanistan, *then how is this any of Pakistan's or PMLN's concern? Its about time we should really stop giving a damn about what Afghans do in Afghanistan: their country, their people, their laws and their system. Besides, there are over 50 (or God knows how many) Muslim countries in the world, they can all have a go at policing Afghanistan in the name of Islam, we are not the only *thakkaydaar *of ummah. Our aim should be to put our own house in order and contain Taliban influence in Afghanistan by liberally drawing the iron curtains on our Northern borders.

Jolie - you are incorrect. The fact is that the Taliban were indeed born in Afghanistan. However, they did receive funding at times from the Pakistani military. It is not as black and white as saying that Pakistan are not involved and in no way responsible for the spread and escalation of the Taliban regime. The pakistani government knew all along what these tribal warlords stood for - Hatred, hatred of the common muslim, hatred of democracy, hatred of peace, hatred of women, love of violence, love of evil. Yet , they did nothing to contain them in Afghanistan, and infact they harboured them while the US were bombing the Afghans.

Do you honestly think that the Pakistani intelligence (ruled by its military) was unaware of Osama hiding in Islamabad? They were harbouring him.

However, the government couldnt care less because they have never been in control of their military. A military who work independently and with whom, the government have to cut deals. What the military say...goes. And unfortunately, there are deep connections in the military forces with certain members of the taliban.

The taliban may have begun with being an Afghan problem... but Pakistan opened its gates to them. And now look at the situation. They occupy the Swat valley and they are influencing uneducated folks , illiterate folks into their path of wrong doing. Pakistan, with all its poverty is the perfect breeding ground for the taliban,

So in response to your post - the reason why the government are now trying to negotiate and begin talks with the Taliban is because they want peace - yes. BUT , it is also because they have no control over the situation and they are unable to take a hard line against this type of evil activity in their country.. they have no power. And its their own fault for neglecting the situation and being so naiive.

The reason why the Taliban are "punishing' pakistani's is not because of Pakistan's alliance with the US. It is simply because they are a bunch of uneducated tribal warlords who's only intent is violence, evil, power, control, dictatorship, inflicting fear and spreading immoral behaviour in the name of islam.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE OR LOGICAL, RATIONAL BEHIND THEIR ACTIVITY. YOU CANNOT REASON WITH THEM. And you cannot try to blame Pakistan's so-called alliance with the US for the behaviour of psychopaths who fight without a cause, and who's only intent is inflict pain and suffering on innocent people.
[/QUOTE]

I'm tempted to respond to this post word by word but I don't have time. But lets just say, its not you who will be reasoning with the Taliban! Thankfully its not the case of every Tom, Dick and Harry deciding policies based on filth they hear on Fox News, the Allies have based their decision to start a peace process after seeing the ground realities and having first hand inside information from the Taliban camp. There are indeed some fractions within Taliban who are willing to disarm and sign a ceasefire on certain conditions.

Pakistan must give peace a chance for sake of its own people.

[Aceones]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

over all this is good thing, it will be somewhat a win-win situation after peace talks...
why? because, if peace talks succeed we'll have peace, if they fail, we'll get full public support for military operation like the one in SWAT.

talks succeeding, should be our objective and ideal outcome, talks failing will put all PTI, PMLN and JI supporters behind army, and no one will be given a chance to cry victim for terrorist acts.

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

Our issue is very simple
After 9/11 US wanted us to fight so we fought
Now US wanted little peace temporarilly for their come out from Afghanistan so we are going for peace talks .

[marwati]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

I think nawaz is going in right direction so is IK. I want to clear few things,

1- TTP led by hakimullah mehsud is one ground operating under one leadership. It has local commander in every tribal agency. They have an amir and shura. So its not that there are dozens of factions and you have to talk to each one of them separately. IMU, LET, LEJ, jaish e mohammad, TNSM, al-qaida etc are its partners. The so called good taliban like haqqani network, hafiz gul bahadur group and maulvi nazir group have spirtual links with TTP and they dont operate against each other, infact in case of afghanistan they cooperate with each other.

2- A fact that most people dont know that taliban are not particularly on the mission to destroy girls schools and stop them from education. They neither encourage it nor discourage it. Now you people must be asking why they attack schools? Because usually army is stationed there. The biggest propaganda that was fed to pakistani people was that taliban destroyed girls schools in swat operation. But the fact is that it was army who was stationing in schools and made it target points for militants. Moreover fauji's artillary shelling and mortars and air force bombardments destroy have destroyed infrastructure of tribal areas and in swat back in 2009, not taliban's AK47. Right now army with their tanks and trucks is stationed in district hospital of my area for time, creating lot of problems for patients as they have to pass through tough security check.Who would be responsible for deaths of innocents if taliban decide to attack army in hospital?. In another town they have stationed themeselves in girls schools.

3- Taliban wont dis-arm, in tribal culture surrender is cowardice and asking for it is considered an insult. Taliban are islamists but they are still carrying tribal mentality...and what would be the use of dis-arming them? When they would easily acquire guns after some time. Every household of KPK and FATA is carrying weapons. You can only ask taliban to stop using their weapons against state, for terrorism.

4- When taliban say that democracy is kufar, then it is their way of calling names in anger, it is common concept among deobandis to not consider democracy a good system, khilafat is ideal...if they are that serious against democracy system then why their mentors JUI-F and JUI-F are in it and why Taliban are not criticizing or stopping their mentors. Why they named PML-N and JI for peace talks?....4- After u-turn on afghanistan, pak army made another blunder by back-stabbing rather honourable nek mohamad wazir and allowing U.S to drone him and claiming the responsibility for his death. With him talibanization was contained. He was kind of person with whom you could made peace deal and he had support of tribal elders. After his death taliban leadership went into hands of baitullah mehsud,... mistrustful, careful and brutal by nature....you raised tribal lashkars against him, he assassinated every mehsud malak and khan...you tried to terrorize him, he terrorized you through beheadings and suicide bombings, idea given to him by uzbeks and arabs....you broke peace deal , he also broke it...no code and principles, the more you cornered them, more they got crueler and terrorist.....pak army is dealing with people who can fight for century but wont demoralize....on the other hand there is no gaurantee about pak army, whose soldiers, on many occasions, prefer to surrender than fight to death...on occasion TTP captured more than 300 pak soldiers in north waziristan which is not even their stronghold...

5- After american withdrawl TTP will have sanctuaries in Afghanistan from where they would get re-group, relax, train and launch attacks...right now they are participating in spring operation alongside afghan taliban against NATO and ANA. Existence of good and bad taliban is misconception.

6- why they killed thousands of civilians around 2009 and onwards? They were cornered and in trouble due to one military operation in swat, bajaur and south waziristan, to lift off the pressure from themeselves and build pressure on pak army from public side. When it backfired, they are going on stretagy with attacking mainly pak army, law enforcement agencies and ANP in governament who was opposing their ideology and supporting army.

7- peace talks is only solution, these are not kind of people who can be eliminated through use of force, it is an ideology and people infected from it, the tribals are dealiest and most fearless warriors in modern times as they were in the past.Regards.

[Aceones]

Re: Nawaz appeasing Taliban: Calls for Taliban talks

....