Natural Gas Pipeline via Pak not acceptable: India

Society Military and Strategic Issues
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It is a sad that that Political and Military Leaders cannot come to an understanding with each other for the mutual benefit of our two countries :

Pipeline via Pak not acceptable: India](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=100959)

TIMES NEWS NETWORK TUESDAY, JULY 29, 2003 02:32:31 PM ]

NEW DELHI: **India on Tuesday ruled out importing natural gas from Iran through an onland pipeline passing through Pakistan.

“Keeping in view the present state of bilateral relationship with Pakistan, the government is not considering any proposal for onland natural gas pipeline transiting through Pakistan,” minister of state for petroleum Sumitra Mahajan said in a writen reply in Rajya Sabha.**

Both Iran and Pakistan are keen on the 2,670-km long onland pipeline as it provided the former a cheap route to sell its vast gas reserves and the latter would have earned about $580 million transit fee from the $3.5-billion gas conduit.

New Delhi has been favouring an underwater line to avoid disruption in supplies.

Iran has engaged Australian consultant BHP Kinhill to detail the onland gas pipeline passing through Pakistan. It has also appointed Italy’s Snamprogetti for working on a feasibility study for the construction of an offshore gas pipeline from Assaluyen gas field in Southern Iran to India.

Mahajan said Indo-Iran Joint Committee had constituted a joint technical sub-committee to explore all the options to import natural gas from Iran.

“The Joint Committee had decided to undertake an offshore feasibility study for laying of pipeline from Iran to India outside the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) of Pakistan. Gail from India and National Iranian Gas Export Co (NIGEC) from Iran have been nominated as nodal agencies for the pipeline project by the respective governments,” she added.

May be Pakistani Leaders may try and build some confidence with the Indian Leaders as the pipeline is passing through Pakistan and Pakistan must help to put to rest the Fears of the Indian Leaders and salvage this deal so that the Indian Leaders can agree to the Land Pipe Line.

The Land Pipeline Costs about USD 3-4 Billion and the Sea Pipe Line costs about USD 6 Billion.

Howeer in the case of the Land Pipeline Pakistan will earn USD 600 Million Annually but in the case of the deep sea pipeline there willl be no Transit Costs.

Have a Nice Day

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It would be great for Indo-Pak relations I think... It would be shame to miss the oppurtunity.

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It does not matter whether India joins or not, Pakistan is working on three different options simultaneously, and one of them will be materialized. It's India's loss not our's..

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Gas line not dependent on Indian approval

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PaKpatriot1: *
It would be great for Indo-Pak relations I think... It would be shame to miss the oppurtunity.
[/QUOTE]

yes indeed but will india join the bandwagon?>?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by outlaw: *
It does not matter whether India joins or not, Pakistan is working on three different options simultaneously, and one of them will be materialized. It's India's loss not our's..
[/QUOTE]

Yeah and what are the markets Pakistan is targetting through these different options simultaneously. If it is not for India, I don't think it would be economically viable to put big investments in pipelines passing through Pakistan, as it is.

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_13-8-2003_pg3_1
Speaking at a seminar in Islamabad on “Major Powers and South Asia”, General Pervez Musharraf spelt out once again his vision of an economic bloc emerging in the region with the help of Central Asia’s resources, Pakistan’s transit facilities and India’s vast energy-consuming market…
…
Pipelines will come down from Central Asia and Iran and meet in the middle of Pakistan before running east to India and south to Gwadar where big facilities for conversion of gas to LPG will be available. Pakistan will be the export outlet for a hinterland that could be the world’s richest in natural resources. But before that happens Pakistan will have to be pacified internally so that its own nationals don’t blow up the pipelines

With this last line added by your own people, how can India have faith and go ahead with this pipeline collaboration.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *

Yeah and what are the markets Pakistan is targetting through these different options simultaneously. If it is not for India, I don't think it would be economically viable to put big investments in pipelines passing through Pakistan, as it is.
[/QUOTE]

There are plans to set-up natural gas liquefaction plants at gwadar for exports to the Far Eastern countries. Also, Pakistan has huge dometic consumption since most of our thermal power plants now use gas, and with the projected growth of over 6 %, the gas consumption is bound to increase.

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Domestic use is all right, but its a huge investment soley for projected domestic use. Export of it may not be very viable without India's acceptance and help and as quoted above by me, without pacifying the elements within Pakistan not to blow pipelines.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
Export of it may not be very viable without India's acceptance and help and as quoted above by me, without pacifying the elements within Pakistan not to blow pipelines.
[/QUOTE]

Security is a seperate issue. As, I have mentioned, that the new port of gwadar will have facilities to liquify gas for the countries such as Japan and South Korea - bigger markets than India for gas consumption. Both of these countries have shown interest in importing gas. The liquifaction facilities are included in the overall design of Gwadar Port, and will be built regardlessly, since Pakistan also has an option to import gas from Iran or Qatar. India does not :)

You have not provided a solid evidence as to why India is necessary for the project, apart from "I said so", which is a weak argument.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by outlaw: *
Security is a seperate issue.
[/QUOTE]

You think so! I wonder if other countries think so too, before putting their eggs in your basket and starting trade with a country with internal problems that could affect supply in the long run. Anyway prosper Pakistan will be good for the people of the country, Good Luck.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
. Export of it may not be very viable without India's acceptance and help and as quoted above by me, without pacifying the elements within Pakistan not to blow pipelines.
[/QUOTE]

Dhir you are right, without assuring security to india for such attacks its not easy for india-iran to invest 3-4 billion to this project.

But why wouldnt PAkistanis assure the security cause they will get good amount of money from it about 500m $ +. and penalty bonds can be signed for any disruption etc.

but its goin to be hard anyway for these kind of projects when two countries are hostile to each other.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *

You think so! I wonder if other countries think so too, before putting their eggs in your basket and starting trade with a country with internal problems that could affect supply in the long run. Anyway prosper Pakistan will be good for the people of the country, Good Luck.
[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter. As long there are twenty different companies ready to invest and Asian Dev Bank willing to pump-in the larger portion, we are OK with it. The question is gas and not the pipleline. We have adequate reserves for the next twenty years even if we use up to 2-3 billion MCFD ( metric cubic feet/perday). This gas is meant to provide an assurance of healthy energy supply lines for the next few decades.

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If India doesn't join Pakistan still can use the pipeline to expel the abundance of hot air they're blessed with.

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why tom sawyer..all of a sudden, starting to get stomach cramps, since India is being left out due to its own stupidity.

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^ not stupidity. simply good sense not to trust the Pakistani government which has a colorful track record. In the spirit of peace there can be some gradual concessions made but after significantly more action and proof of action is available.

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Check this reason for not trusting too

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Well, in this case it seems that Pakistan and foreign investors are not bothered. Our econimc prowess and progress is not dependent on India in any way, nor Pakistan needs to prove anything. The project's planning is pressing ahead anyway. So, I guess end of discussion..

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This got me thinking..

Pakistan claims to have reserves for the next 20 or so odd years. Say 25 for argument's sake. With so much investment along with incentives being pumped into natural gas by the gov't (which BTW I whole heartedly agree with), what exactly are the contingencies if these reserves run out sonner than the anticipated years. The cars and buses are converting to natural gas left and right.

Even more importantly, whats in the works for energy consumption after the 25 years or when the reserves run out? To me, Pakistan knows that there's finite amount of reserves (and 25 years is a very very narrow time frame for a country) so the planning should be in place for alternate source of energy once its own gas reserves are exhausted. Relying on oil as an alternative to natural gas would seem kinda counter-productuve...eh?!

Anyone care to shed halogen light on this one?!?

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Ghalib yaar, the government has done a handsome job in promoting natural gas as an alternative fuel. Not only for automobiles, but also for industries such as power plants, and cement. As far as the existing reserves are concerned, our major reserve Sui will be cashed withing the next ten years. But, we have barely started tapping the recently discovered gas in Sind. I don't the exact figures from the top of my head, but there are adequate reserves for up to next twenty five or so years. Pakistan will built one pipeline for import purposes within the next ten years. Whether, it's from Iran, Qatar or Turkmenistan. We are taking it easy, since there's no immediate rush.