Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
I was just referring to the human nature. Other than that, I agree with you
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Its not looking down, its trying to help someone who might be doing something wrong. Its just giving some heartfelt advice. If Muslims can’t do that to one another without causing offence then what state are we in? I’m not saying certain items do not have blessings in them I agree with some of your examples. What I am disagreeing with is the making of pictures of certain items and then saying the blessing is in that picture of that item. We should be very careful in doing these things because Like TLK stated the example of the people of Ilyas AS we too could end up making their mistake. Whatever the prophet prescribed and whatever has been made permissible in Qur’an those are the things we should stick to. Sahabah may have had good intentions but they were infallible. There is no doubt they were better Muslims than us but they still made mistakes. Im not saying they made a mistake in this maybe they didn’t but like the saying goes better safe than sorry. Why go looking for a picture to gain blessings from Allah when you can do something easier and just recite ayah and do dua? Read extra nafl. Do dua in the recommended times such as the last third of the night, after farz prayers, during travelling, during sickness or during fasting. The prophet recommended these ways for us. Why make things complicated?
In the end Allah glorified is He and indeed it is He who knows best.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Peace TLK bhai
Technically we are evaluating for shirk … Again it is not the image of the shoe that has any power … But the love we harbour that is praiseworthy.
Very significant tabarruk have been recorded in Islamic history … Such as the burdah sharif. The poem of the mantle (scarf) … Is a tabarruk and was the means for the healing of the one Imam Busairi (RA), because he wrote it with intense love for RasoolAllah (SAW) and because of that the reward of shif’a was given by Allah (SWT) … When the Christians use the cross, kiss it or emulate it … It represents not only the mistaken death of Christ (AS) but also the three upper sections mean Father, Son and Holy Ghost … The symbol is representing Trinity which is where the shirk lies. It is not in the symbol of the cross itself … The Christians are not doing shirk of the cross with God, rather the symbol represents a worship of a false understanding of God. Likewise, we have Hijra-e-Aswad … It is part of the act of Hajj and Umrah to touch it … In this specific case … We are told it removes our sins to do so … It is a devotional act … Not because it is thought that this stone inherently removes sins …
In order for an act to be shirk out of the nature of the act itself then we have a lot of internal matters to explain … But if we understand the matters properly then nothing needs explanation and we find other relics become acceptable to have and cherish.
Coming from a Deobandis background I found this the hardest thing to overcome … But with learning critical reasoning I have compared other things we do and they seem to be quite similar yet those are acceptable … So I concluded it must be down to familiarity rather than fact that gives us concerns …
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Did the Prophet SAW recommend taking barakah from his items? Is there authentic hadith for this? I doubt that he recommended making pictures of those items and putting them up in mosques or carrying them around and thinking there is barakah in the picture. Can you see what the difference is here? There is an item and there is a PICTURE of an item. This is just the same as Christians making a cross and wearing it. A PICTURE will not have barakah in it.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
ThorneWood, I was going to reply to you but I think psyah has already answered in post#63.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Even more sorry then you, this belief of yours is Shirk and alien to Islam [not from Islam].
First what Rv said was that the Nalain pak could bring Miracles, which is true, They could. There is a massive chance for someone of the right aqeedah and Qurb to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala to see such Miracles after doing something like venerating the Nalain Pak
Second first, those Nalain Shareef are what was allowed to be worn by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala when RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam went on Miraj. This is comparable to Musa Alaihis Salam being asked to take off His Shoes when Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala spoke to Him [through a Tree, I am informed by a Scholar]
Now onto Shirk, nowhere did Rv say that those Shoes or Image are the actual creators of Miracles, She merely implied miracles ‘‘could’’ happen if you held unto them.
We all know where those miracles would actually emanate from
So you are wrong in your shirk allegation
The proofs for you being wrong are numerous including what has already been mentioned of ZamZam, Wudu water [which was not allowed to hit the ground], The Cloaks of Prophet Yusuf Alaihis Salam, Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal Rehmatullah Alaih!, many many more
Shirk is something else all together!
No sectarian mentions here yet, but I can tell you have been misguided with regards to Shirk
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
The black stone.Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia:
'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you.”
There is no benefit in kissing the black stone, so it does not remove sins either. Hazrat Umar RA himself did not know why the prophet kissed the stone but he did it because it was something the prophet did and he wanted to emulate the prophet. Also it is not obligatory to kiss the stone or touch it during Hajj or Umrah.
You explained the cross well and that makes sense but again there is a difference between the actual item and a picture of that item.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Any person who thinks the Muslim way of Reaching Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is not through RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is severely mistaken
A person can talk to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala alone, that is true but to go to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala as a Believer you must go through the Shahada
La Illaha IlAllah Muhammadur RasoolAllah
yeah! Now you can talk to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala as a Believer
add to this the desperate desire for used Wudu Water, that is better for you
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
What is it exactly that you are denying? Is it that the hadiths are not Sahih or that the purpose in distributing and taking was not Tabarruk?
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Let’s not quote that scholar or this scholar. There are also “scholars” sitting in the laal masjid egging on killings of 150 kids at a school. And to say that a descendent of the Prophet couldn’t possibly be wrong about something is actually a Shia belief (interesting it is being used by the Wahhabi/salafis here). Prophet’s wife and son-in-law also fought each other and sacrificed 10,000 lives in the process, so let’s not talk about the infallibility of the Prophet’s family.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
As for the shirt example, when I have been working long hours and my vision gets blurried from poor sleep then putting a mask/covering on my eyes and closing them also helps restore vision. The act of giving a personal shirt to your father to cover his eyes with just is a manifestation of affection. Did anyone think of that logical explanation? No. We keep looking for magic in objects and this is strictly forbidden in the Quran as a practice of the occult.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
The Barkat comes from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala but we can receive Barkat for our Worship to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala or veneration and respect of inaminate objects such as Mosques, places, belongings, rituals and just plain Love. In fact love alone can get one into paradise, it is a ticket for forgiveness or can be
Your first token is the Kalima, your second token is the Sunnah. These are confirmed tokens and objects that we have been commanded to go through!
The words token and objects is not quiet clear here as to what you meant by them. If i have misread your post please say so
A dua can suffice for some help. However that is not the point, a part of the point is to increase in good deeds and find that act which will act as a waseela for you. Even Prophets and great Awliya have needed these places and states to ask for something
The Quran is evidence of these things. Hadiths are not acceptable if they are against Quran Teachings
Read Hareem’s post top of page 2
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
I once read an article where researchers were looking into the story of Prophet Yusuf’s shirt in connection to restoring his father’s eyesight. The conclusion arrived at was that the shirt would contain sweat and perhaps sweat contains substances that may help with eyesight. Anyhow, It’s Allah who restores and renews things. And it’s not hard to believe that Allah places barkat or blessings in the belongings and bodies of His prophets. The source acknowledged is Allah. As for zamzam water, Alhumdolillah I’ve had it many, many times and I have never gotten ill from it. Thousands of people perform umrah and hajj and drink zamzam and never have I come across any news reports of mass deaths or infections/illness from consuming zamzam…so this is something that we should stop and consider before rushing to believe a news report that zamzam is poisonous or dangerous. As for the examples of ahadith that Hareem shared, if Allah healed them through the hair of the Prophet SAWS…we should consider their level of iman compared to ours. We don’t pray namaz on time or regularly, sometimes we see it as a chore, we don’t recite Quran regularly, we don’t mind our tongues and ears and engage in gossip and ridicule and lies…but we expect immediate results from drinking zamzam or doing dum of Quran. There could be many things behind why our duas are not fulfilled right away and one of them could be our own shortcomings. So, it’s not right to rush to dismiss something said to contain barkat be it a relic or zamzam or even reciting a surah X number of times. If the Prophet’ wives administered a relic as a means of healing…they are not at the same level of the Prophet SAWS…but being called the Mothers of the Believers is no small title…it warrants respect and even if one has doubts about the actions of the Mothers of the Believers…it’s better to seek clarification though a scholar/s as opposed to dismissing them without research.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
you can call me Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat. I wont mind it
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Your obviously not Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat - hands up honestly you are not. No sectarian bigotry involved here. I have looked into certain issues from the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, you are off the sunni scale. For example what i replied to you would also apply to scholars if they had held the same opinion, principled stance, right?. Do you see me saying that to them? No - why ? because their opinions are the bases of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah and its not what you are upon.
Just look to Psyah, unfortunately the truth was elsewhere to what we [including me] were indoctrinated to
Any way I think you should reply to me on the points I mentioned
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
The position you are opposing is on the Sunni spectrum not wahabi/salafi
People often quote the Hadis of the final sermon with a version which says to follow the sunnah, in fact the version which mentions our regard for Ahle Bayt is stronger and Sahih. The sunnah is to be followed, it is commanded in the Quran
The Ahle bayt being Imams and honoured is not just a sunni belief but wahabis also have a version, in saudi they have people who are Aal Ash-Shaykh they are descendents of ibn abdul wahab Najdi. No joke
I am willing to look into this with you, it’ll be a slow process since we wont be engaging in polemics but researching the correct interpretation, do you want to?
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
This is reply to some ones insinuation against what can appear as ‘Magical Miracles’. They are a reality in fact, not magic, because our creation itself is a wonder, Haqiqi and Jismi not magic
Abu Huraira RadiAllahu Anhu is our most prolific narrator, he used to have weak memory, but how did it improve? Good Memory was scooped from the air and thrown into his cloth by RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
This means at least Ahlus Sunnah are believers of miracles**
- It is related that Abu Hurayra said, “I said, ‘Messenger of Allah, I hear many hadiths from you which I forget.’ He said, ‘Spread out your cloak.’ I spread it out, he scooped with his hands and then said, ‘Embrace it.’ I embraced it at my chest and never forgot anything after that.”
**alternative translation:
Narrated Abu Huraira: I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I hear many narrations from you but I forget them.” He said, “Spread your covering sheet.” I spread my sheet and he moved both his hands as if scooping something and emptied them in the sheet and said, “Wrap it.” I wrapped it round my body, and since then I have never forgotten a single Hadith.
There is no rationalism applicable to this Hadis that I am aware of. It is simply a Miracle. So miracles are certainly in the Islamic spectrum of beliefs. The Ummah and its scholars have had ample opportunity to state otherwise if indeed the Quran prohibits such happenings as rationalists say. So what this proves, without delving into a forceful polemic statement, is that these beliefs are the beliefs of the Majority of Muslims. So anyone sat on his/her couch today saying they reject, should also know the biggest scholars and the people closer to the arabic language have accepted miracles.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
Peace brother Thornewood9
Yes we do have this hadith, but when looking at a subject we should see all the related hadith together to get an understanding or else we could end up choosing a skewed understanding of the subject matter.
Here:
** (8) Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah expiates for sins**** It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”**** (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him).
**So if on one hand the stone can neither benefit nor harm anyone - yet on the other hand it can expiate sins … what is the correct understanding?
The correct understanding that it in itself has no power but when certain rights are performed it becomes a “means” for expiating sins … Other ahadith state it was first whiter than milk and the sins of men have made it black.
You say there is a difference between the actual item and a copy or image of it … May be so long as the item itself has inherent value - such as any part of the jism-e-mubarak of RasoolAllah (SAW). However, anything that “reminds” us of him (SAW) also counts … Counts for what? Bringing on the love - not worship - but love … this state of love is a catalyst for our du’as. Reciting durood before and after our du’a is a way to have our du’a accepted - it is because the durood helps us think about RasoolAllah (SAW) in love.
So certain things you will see have been copied for effect … and other things are actual and are never copied, like hair strands, etc
and when I say actual value … I mean it in the sense of medicinal value … Just like we say … Allah (SWT) puts cure in certain things, likewise we believe this about all of RasoolAllah (SAW) …
So there are those things that remind us of Our love … those things that harbour some inherent value like medicines, and there is Allah (SWT) Himself - The Source of All Power. For shirk to qualify as shirk we would have to connect the source of power with any of the creation … In order to be consistent.
People of modern times like to place a lot of focus on medicine … because it shows scientific pathways for how it cures … However, one area within medicine is called the placebo effect … A placebo is when the pathway for the cure is not scientifically observable, but the psyche of people is credited to be the curing element, because of the power of faith. Placebos are prescribed in modern medicine. Yet, the same people are reluctant to accept tabarruk, which in my opinion is like a placebo, except that it includes more than just physical cures, but also spiritual ones.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
This is my message to all those in the thread that think a physical item or a picture of it, can somehow fix your problems. Thanks for making a succint effective statement, TLK.
Re: Nalain of Rasool SAWS
then example of parents love as argument given by stonecold should be considered absurd