You know some *na’at *are very nice to hear. Like atif aslam sang “tajdar y haram”
But then some sentence he says some thing, as he his asking rasool-ullah(saw)
to do some thing.
Is that right?
Or for that matter can we even address rasool-ullah(saw) ?
BTW that is the story of many na’ats.
@psyah
Re: na'at and crossing the line
shairi is all about 'GHULU' [massive exaggeration of facts] which is never condoned in Islam and that's why Allah says in the Holy Qur'aan that the Prophet [saws] was NOT a poet and that Qur'aan is NOT poetry simply because poetry is NOT shayaan-e-shaan [worthy] of the Prophet [saws].
so, if we find any poetry [Na't] containing ash'aar that transgress upon the Prophet's status [for example calling him (saws) a non-human] is tantamount to kufr. we must reject such na'ts.
you will not find any ustaad poets describing/praising MoHammad [saws] in a way that is against Islamic belief that he [saws] was NOT a human.
Re: na’at and crossing the line
Well Monk, I will the leave reply to @psyah but its seems you are mixing two different sects. The Aqeedah that you are questioning is from my sect and we actually believe in those things. At the same time as listening to sunni media, it seems you actually influenced by a different sect
The point is that some people believe in it and some newer sects do not.
I can show my sect believes in it, these are two naats that I keep on my phone:
here Pakistanis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF-rwwRWTiI
Non Pakistanis, probably turks or syrians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POW31-osmTM
If required I will be willing to refute the claim that it is ghulu/exaggeration. **My counter claim is that it is in line with what has been revealed by Allah Ta’ala, in line with the poetry of the Companions RadiAllahu Anh, and in line with classical poetry written by classical scholars. **
Re: na'at and crossing the line
But asking rasool-ullah(saw) for some thing, does not go in category in "calling upon some one other then allah" ?(from quran in my words)
If you want to answer please keep it simple.
I argue enough with Christians, to know how innovation creep into the religion.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
But asking rasool-ullah(saw) for some thing, does not go in category in "calling upon some one other then allah" ?(from quran in my words) If you want to answer please keep it simple.
Salam Alaikum
Yes it does fall into that category, and there is nothing wrong with it. I have given you two mainstream proofs above that i and those like me believe in it. The other sects opinion, that you have been influenced to, is a new innovation
Which verse of the Quran have you translated there?
[Quote]
I argue enough with Christians, to know how innovation creep into the religion.
[/QUOTE]
Excellent, so you'll know the importance of correct beliefs, avoiding innovation and not following taghoots
Has this post been kept simple enough? I understand the importance of keeping these things simple. I could go simpler if you let me know
Re: na'at and crossing the line
Salam Alaikum
Yes it does fall into that category, and there is nothing wrong with it.
elekum salam
I appreciate your honest answer.
[quote]
I have given you two mainstream proofs above that i and those like me believe in it. The other sects opinion, that you have been influenced to, is a new innovation
[/quote]
So you are saying, it is ok to do because some people think its ok to do?
Or you think its ok because you know it from clear statements from quran/hadees ?
[quote]
Which verse of the Quran have you translated there?
[/quote]
No particular verse, basically words "doon illah " (besides God) appears many, many time in quran.
[quote]
Excellent, so you'll know the importance of correct beliefs, avoiding innovation and not following taghoots
Has this post been kept simple enough? I understand the importance of keeping these things simple. I could go simpler if you let me know
[/QUOTE]
Yeah that was truth full and simple. Thanks.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
elekum salam
I appreciate your honest answer.
JazakAllah, without honesty its not even informative
[QUOTE]
So you are saying, it is ok to do because some people think its ok to do?
Or you think its ok because you know it from clear statements from quran/hadees ?
[/QUOTE]
Both, The people of truth and Islam are guided by Allah Ta'ala, and the Quran and Hadees which is also guidance supports them naturally.
[QUOTE]
No particular verse, basically words "doon illah " (besides God) appears many, many time in quran.
[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, but are we going to take the words ''doon illah'' (besides God) and apply it to everything? If I get sick is it permissible for me to go anywhere else for cure but Allah Most High?
[quote]
Yeah that was truth full and simple. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
In Sha Allah, we will both remain truthful
Re: na’at and crossing the line
@Monk
Peace brother … 
You asked “can we even address RasoolAllah (SAW) …?”
Hopefully in prayer we are all addressing him (SAW).
Assalamu’alaika ayyuha-nNabiyu
This means — “O Prophet Peace unto you!” Harfu nida is used for second person and ka is the dhameer (pronoun) for the second person. Second person is dhahir (present) - generally in front of us - (the one who we are addressing directly).
Q) Can we ask him (SAW) for anything?
A) Like we can ask a doctor for a cure or a teacher for guidance - the doctors provide medicines and the teachers provide guidance material - Then Allah (SWT) puts shi’fa in the medicine and turns the hearts to guidance from the guidance material. We expect the doctor and teacher to give us what is within their remit and Allah (SWT) to make it effective.
If someone asks RasoolAllah (SAW) to give us his intercession on the Day of Judgement - how can that be shirk?
Shirk is defined by this:
Because we do not ask Allah (SWT) for intercession - that act belongs to the intercessor not the Judge. So it is not shirk.
Bid’a? - Something can only be a bid’a if somebody starts to give weighting to a matter as if it were in fiqh/shari’ah when it does not belong where they are placing it. Then there is the issue of exaggeration and that is a separate topic.
Re: na’at and crossing the line
Sending peace and blessing is allowed. I think (not sure) in quran it says some thing about sending blessing to ibrahim(as)
We got things mixed here. We can ask on the day of judgment. Because inshallah we would see rasoolallah(saw) there.
But asking him to make things happen like right now for us ?
1-I did not want to go as far as calling it shrik.
2-See Christian do not worship mary(as), but they pray to her.
3-In quran, God will ask jesus(as) , “that did you ask people to take you and your mother as God?”
(in my words)
4-So that sort of gives me idea that praying to some one other then allah(swt) is wrong.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
JazakAllah, without honesty its not even informative
Both, The people of truth and Islam are guided by Allah Ta'ala, and the Quran and Hadees which is also guidance supports them naturally.
1-This argument is too close to Christian argument about them being guided by holy spirit.
2-Not saying that is reason enough for this argument to be wrong.
3-I can accept that God did not let muslims go too far, as doing innovations which would put them out of islam. But Its hard to imagine that every action done by them is 100% guided.
[QUOTE]
Yes it does, but are we going to take the words ''doon illah'' (besides God) and apply it to everything? If I get sick is it permissible for me to go anywhere else for cure but Allah Most High?
In Sha Allah, we will both remain truthful
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I cant help noticing this argument is how atheist find fault with concept of God.
This argument stems from illusion.
Asking for help from Doctor and from neighbour, is completely different domain from asking Allah(swt) to make things happen.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
1-This argument is too close to Christian argument about them being guided by holy spirit. 2-Not saying that is reason enough for this argument to be wrong.
This reply does not make sense, I will try to explain; I said 'the people of truth are guided by Allah' and you have said it is too close to the Christian argument
Either you have some preconceived idea that you are applying or you have another suggestion of where guidance comes from
[quote]
3-I can accept that God did not let muslims go too far, as doing innovations which would put them out of islam. But Its hard to imagine that every action done by them is 100% guided.
[/quote]
We will need Allah Ta'ala to be merciful to us
[quote]
Sorry, but I cant help noticing this argument is how atheist find fault with concept of God.
This argument stems from illusion.
Asking for help from Doctor and from neighbour, is completely different domain from asking Allah(swt) to make things happen.
[/quote]
It was a question about permissibility which you did not answer simply. We are discussing Islam, and you mentioned doon illah/besides Allah,
So in your opinion asking help from a doctor/neighbour is ok, and is completely different domain from asking Allah Ta'ala
I'll accept that, so asking from doctor/neighbour is ok but what happened to doon illah? Has Allah Ta'ala given you permission to call upon doctor or neighbour??
Re: na'at and crossing the line
The saddest part about the original post is that monk attributed tajdar e haram to atif Aslam
Re: na'at and crossing the line
This reply does not make sense, I will try to explain; I said 'the people of truth are guided by Allah' and you have said it is too close to the Christian argument
Either you have some preconceived idea that you are applying or you have another suggestion of where guidance comes from
About Christian thing:
Christian believe they are guided by holy spirit. BUT they say when they are going against what jesus(as) said.
About Guidance:
My idea of guidance is any thing which is sort of ... kind of.. seems like conflicting quran... is not worth paying attention to. Unless some one bring it as an argument.
[quote]
We will need Allah Ta'ala to be merciful to us
[/quote]
yes!!
[quote]
It was a question about permissibility which you did not answer simply. We are discussing Islam, and you mentioned doon illah/besides Allah,
So in your opinion asking help from a doctor/neighbour is ok, and is completely different domain from asking Allah Ta'ala
I'll accept that, so asking from doctor/neighbour is ok but what happened to doon illah? Has Allah Ta'ala given you permission to call upon doctor or neighbour??
[/quote]
I assume so. Since
1-"mim ma razaqna hum unfiqoon"(they spend from what rizaq we gave them)
Is used over and over.
2-Taking care of yateem.
3-Giving even life to help oppressed people.
All three are example of help among society. And its said in quran to take care of *saye'al(*one who ask for help).
So yes It seems like asking for help among society and helping is fine.
If you keep insisting and mixing reality with illusion then I have no wish to argue with fellow muslim.
Since I am tired of answering such argument from atheists.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
The saddest part about the original post is that monk attributed tajdar e haram to atif Aslam
Ok.
Sabri brothers :D
Re: na'at and crossing the line
Ok.
Sabri brothers :D
no, Monk! ... you were right. Atif Aslam also sang that qawwali along with GS qawwals in 2015. you didn't hear that? surprising if you didn't. ;)
Re: na'at and crossing the line
Sending peace and blessing is allowed. I think (not sure) in quran it says some thing about sending blessing to ibrahim(as)
We got things mixed here. We can ask on the day of judgment. Because inshallah we would see rasoolallah(saw) there. But asking him to make things happen like right now for us ?
1-I did not want to go as far as calling it shrik. 2-See Christian do not worship mary(as), but they pray to her. 3-In quran, God will ask jesus(as) , "that did you ask people to take you and your mother as God?" (in my words) 4-So that sort of gives me idea that praying to some one other then allah(swt) is wrong.
Peace brother Monk
Please don't change the question - you asked if we could address RasoolAllah (SAW) directly. I said yes and provided evidence. You then say it is allowed to send peace and blessings, but peace and blessings can also be sent without addressing RasoolAllah (SAW). Like this:
AllahummaSalle'AlaSayyidina Muhammad (SAW).
This sentence in Arabic is directly addressing Allah (SWT) and requesting Him to send RasoolAllah (SAW) ones praises. However, the previous one is addressing RasoolAllah (SAW) directly. Please understand this point before we move on.
Your next issue with my response is about asking from RasoolAllah (SAW) on the hereafter because we would be able to see him. This is just not right. Being able to see someone in order to ask from them is not the criteria of avoiding shirk in any textbook of 'aqeedah. Rather asking someone for giving you something that only Allah (SWT) can give you is shirk. If Christians pray to Mary (AS) then they are certainly worshiping her. No Christian I know admits to praying to Mary (AS), but there were people in the past and some sects that do seek the type of blessings from Mary (AS) that should be asked from Allah (SWT) which is clear shirk.
By the way - Prayer means Salah and Salah comes from the same word that means hip bone or bending/bowing. By intent it is the offering of worship to an entity the worshiper considers to be Deity or like Deity.
We are not forbidden from asking humans for help - so clearly if we ask them to help us while they are alive or dead or alive but in a different way is irrespective and does not bear on shirk - the only valid point here is that it might be innovative but there are arguments against that too.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
@Monk
Al-Busiri narrated the circumstances of his inspiration to write the Burdah:
I had composed a number of praise poems for the Prophet, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace, including one that was suggested to me by my friend Zayn al-Dīn Yʿaqūb b. al-Zubayr. Some time after that, I was stricken by fālij (stroke), an illness that paralyzed half of my body. I thought that I would compose this poem, and so I made supplications to the Prophet Muhammad, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace, to intercede for me and (and ask God to) cure me. I repeatedly sang the poem, wept, prayed, and asked for intercession. Then I slept and in my dream, I saw the Prophet, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace. He wiped my face with His blessed hands and covered me in His Mantle (Burdah). Then I woke up and found I was able to walk; so I got up and left my house. I had told no one about what had happened.
I encountered a Sufi (faqīr) on my way and he said to me: “I want you to give me the poem in which you praise the Prophet, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace.”
I said: “Which one?”
So he said: ”The one that you composed during your sickness.”
Then he recited the first verse and said: “I swear by God that I heard it in a dream last night being sung in the presence of the Prophet Muhammad, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace. I saw the Prophet, Allah bless Him and salute Him with peace, was pleased with it and covered the person who sang it with His Mantle.”
So I recited the poem to him and he memorized it and related his vision to others.— Imam al-Busiri
Re: na'at and crossing the line
Peace brother Monk
Please don't change the question - you asked if we could address RasoolAllah (SAW) directly. I said yes and provided evidence. You then say it is allowed to send peace and blessings, but peace and blessings can also be sent without addressing RasoolAllah (SAW). Like this:
AllahummaSalle'AlaSayyidina Muhammad (SAW).
This sentence in Arabic is directly addressing Allah (SWT) and requesting Him to send RasoolAllah (SAW) ones praises. However, the previous one is addressing RasoolAllah (SAW) directly. Please understand this point before we move on. .
I understood this part.
Rest of the post I still have to process.
Re: na'at and crossing the line
Peace @Monk,
That is why i'm off the opinion out of many in listening/reading Naats.
Re: na’at and crossing the line
@Monk how did you get on with this subject?
I came across a hadith about na’at/poetry and it made me think about you.
I found this in the Sahih of Imam Bukhari:
…“Retort on my behalf. O Allah! Support him (i.e. Hassan) with the Holy Spirit?”…
Narrated Sa’id bin Al-Musaiyab: 'Umar came to the Mosque while Hassan was reciting a poem. ('Umar disapproved of that). On that Hassan said, “I used to recite poetry in this very Mosque in the presence of one (i.e. the Prophet ) who was better than you.” Then he turned towards Abu Huraira and said (to him), "I ask you by Allah, did you hear Allah’s Apostle saying (to me), “Retort on my behalf. O Allah! Support him (i.e. Hassan) with the Holy Spirit?” Abu Huraira said, “Yes.” [Bukhari Sharif]
All Praise is to Allah, whom guides the Believers with the Holy Spirit