NA 122:

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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when it comes in PTI's favour ,when PTI is right , yes that proves Judiciary is right.

Don't have to retard to oppose pti.

42

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Same old mantra singing, carry on with it...

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I am quite gob-smacked at reaction by some educated neutrals who believe it's just a seat and if Imran loses this seat in re-election, he will lose his credibility? REALLY??

The issue at hand is NOT Imran losing a random seat, remember he won 3/4 constituencies and now it turns out he won his 4th one as well, he does NOT need a seat. A lot has changed since 2013 when thousands came out for "Change", i personally know many who travelled from overseas to just vote for "Change". Imran was getting votes based on "Change" otherwise he did not have projects like motorways, metros, laptops etc and no one cares about "Change" in bye elections.

Main issue is that 2/4 constituencies that Imran randomly selected have been proven to be rigged, how is Imran's credibility in question? Shouldn't the credibility of cheaters be in question who have not cheated in these elections alone but have cheated the nation for decades? When are cheaters going to be punished?

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Re: NA 122:

Also Imran's popularity has probably gone down because he was wasting time on a non issue. Rigging is not common man's issue which is kind of understandable but a common man in Pakistan today does NOT even care about elections or even democracy.

So you can cheat your way to power, take stay orders if caught cheating and no one questions you. On the other hand the victim gets cheated, cries about justice for years and in the end is labelled as time waster and trouble maker....STORY OF THE NATION.

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Will the re-polling now, and next election be done in full faith and honesty?

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Exactly.

Imran's popularity has taken a dip because Army Chief's popularity has touched a new extreme (perhaps the main cause of Noora - Military tensions). The kind of popularity following COAS right now is exactly the kind of popularity enjoyed by Imran couple of years back/around elections time. It is now not a 'bloody civilian' democrat, but a General who has become an undisputed messianic symbol of hope, expectations, efficiency, credibility, and future. Not many people in Pakistan give a hoot about this system, people have realised that one Imran cannot bring a change - you need independent and powerful institutions for that. Imran's appeal has been neutralised by efficiency, authority and leadership shown by present military leaders.

You know the system have totally failed when parents of Kasur child abuse case victims ask Army Chief to take notice - no they don't ask your Prime Minister, not his brother Cartoon e Ala, or the Chief Justice of Pakistan or any other political leader - they ask Gen Raheel to provide justice. Let this hypocrite self proclaimed neutral brigade celebrate, apologies and trivialise injustice out of sheer political prejudice, wait till Military courts become fully functional and start performing, and see how the general public rejects this system of injustice and ask for alternative.

I'm sickened by their moronic duplicity - the illegally elected speaker of the parliament was allowed to continue highlighting the total corruption and impotency of state institutions, and they're whining about Imran's credibility or whether he'll win the elections or not. What a perfect way to dumb down such serious issues. Why the eff do you care about Imran's credibility when he's not even winning the absolute majority, how about for once you show outrage and any concern about the credibility of the people who dominate the corridors of power, who had been ruling the masses for decades and will continue to screw the country for another generation because we have plenty of idiots who apologies for their crimes. Learn to differentiate between political shortcomings on party lines and crimes against the nation! The self proclaimed natural brigade spends far too much time moaning about the former.

Maybe Imran Khan has lost the fight against electoral rigging just like many before him - the youth stands disappointed and dejected, now if you think this is a cause to celebrate - go bloody celebrate.

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Wat a reason . Next dip in IK popularity will come may be due Mathira getting more popular.

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I agree with most of it, however the popularity has taken a dip for few of these reasons: failure to prove "systematic rigging", 35-punctures, love-affair during dharna (of course to some this is a 'non-issue'), valima/reception within few days of Peshware kids massacre.

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Before I have all guns of July and august firing at me for doing a sin of comparing Army cheif with Mathira , as they go literally , difficult to understand under the lines or depend on their wish which way they wanna think.

This is just example of not necessary one get popular means other will automatically get less popular.
Umeed hey matma-e- arz samajh main aa gaya ho gay janab ki. BTW i beleive I can use the word Jhaka here. that it is not a jhaka.

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Even if PTI loses in the re-election it won't mean deseating of Ayaz Sadiq was wrong. In my opinion PTI has the moral victory, I wish IK had not gone astray in dharna

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I don't know who Mathira is, must be your kind of thing.

You don't have always take an offence in any pro Army comment for sake of it. You don't need to be a genius to see there's a direct correlation between Imran's dwindling popularity and Gen. Raheel staggering rise after dharna. General's** leadership **post APS attack has truly turned things around for the 'bloody civilians'. Even Imran admits that Army is indeed filling the vacuum.

But I don't know why Imran's thinning popularity should be a cause of concern for those who cry 'bloody civilians' yet no bloody civilian is ever good enough for their support. If PTI is as a third option and an all out opposition force falls weak and unpopular - then let it be. What's the worse that can happen - the youth that looks up to Imran would start hoping for leadership from Army?

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Kid u need to learn to do argument with out being personal. I know it is too much of asking from you . But it will help in many coming phases of life.
I still didn't got ur take on
1. Ik opinion abt our beloved generals.
2. How army men of brigadier and above rank live a lavish life which does not match their legit salary.

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I am not an MQM supporter or sympathisers that I will start hating Army just because my 'Quide' said so.

But just to sooth you, here I go:

IK's comment was beyond disgusting and selfish. He certainly went down a notch in a lot of people's eyes.

A General always starts from the bottom, and it is his services to the country, sheer excellence and dedication that earns him four stars and medals on his chest - a lot of ignorant army haters seems to have zero idea about the journey solider takes from the bottom to reach the top, and the level of sacrifices and commitment it involves. Army is all about discipline, merit and performance - so yes, no one gets a short cut there.

After passing that comment, part of him will definitely be too ashamed to meet the generals in the eye. just because Generals decided not to give two hoots about his protest, doesn't mean he had the right to pass such crass and disrespecting comments. But as everyone says, he's lucky that he passed those comments in private hence no real action could be taken against him. Do you want me to give you another sermon on all the opposition IK had done on Musharraf's rule?

If you think top Army officials actually survive on their salary - then you probably don't know enough about Army.

54

Re: NA 122:

Raheel Shareef's popularity has been on the rise since the army's belated north waziristan operation was launched in 2014. Imran should have gotten a dip in popularity right away then, right?

Just admit it being a "nirala" that imran has done blunders. I don't trust imran after 35 puncture that turned out to be bs per his own claim. He should have apologized for his stance like arif alvi and asad umar, the genuine PTI, wanted him to do but no, he has to be the walnut that caused revolts in the cricket team. Hassan Nisar in some of his rants might like the chagezi khan, but he will up destroying his party. SMQ and jehangir tarin or that skeleton of KP CM don't have the charisma or even the intellect to provide unique ("revolutionary" sounds communist) solutions that Pakistan needs right now.

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Re: NA 122:

Is it true that Gen. Raheel was well liked and very well received for starting Zarb e Azb, but he became a household name after the prime ministerial level leadership he showed after APS attack and the initiatives he took - the ever so famous visit to Afghanistan the following morning of APS attack, formation of NAP and Apex Committees, ending of death penalty moratorium, Military Courts, intensifying of Karachi operation and Zarb e Azb, and taking a visible lead on all anti terrorism related decisions and strategies till today.

While Imran Khan became Mr Reham Khan, post APS saw Gen Raheel emerge as an acting Prime Minister. It is unfortunate for Imran that dharna came to an unexpected and undesirable end due to APS tragedy otherwise who knows what of leverage he would have got out of the final shut down.

The fact that Army made Imran Khan and KPK ministers cancel their visit to APS opening day while Gen Raheel was attending was a pretty significant and symbolic snub - and people welcomed this move and funnily enough, Imran was too embarrassed to even make this into an issue!

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Re: NA 122:

This news is certainly a good one for PTIand one should congratulate them for this decision. They took a stand and threw a challenge against a result, decision came out in their favor so they deserve some celebration which is definitely long-awaited. So ya well-done.
But the real challenge will be the bi-election as it may turn out the same as NA-19. They should be careful.

Meanwhile all PTIans are coming out of hole and back to bragging mode something that they are the best at..

:cadet:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNKGjAxWIAE44TO.jpg

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Re: NA 122:

I really don't understand all this hate against JKT - he's very much become a Sheikh Rasheed type figure where people (Noon Leaguers mostly) just want to have a negative opinion on him for heck of it. Yes, he's rich - now get over it.

As with Khattak - because of this 'skeleton' PTI effectively got elected thrice in KPK - clearly he's doing something right for the locals even for outsiders he's not charismatic and camera friendly enough. Khattak may not be a visionary leader, but he's a very decent administrator - he gets the job done. So stop picking up on him. PTI managed to survive a coalition and a strong opposition due to Khattak administrative experience. You can get someone young and charismatic, but what if he's not experienced enough and creates a political civil war in warn torn tribal province? Not all charismatic leaders make good administrators - Imran is an epitome of this example.

Anyway, under Khattak, KPK institutions are working independently and growing, unlike Shahbaz Sharif, he doesn't need to run the whole province through remote control and get his action points from media. If it takes a boring old reserved personality to reform the police system - then more powers to him. We need more and more boring old skeletons all over Pakistan.

This 'skeleton' allowed LB polls to take place in KPK (something oh so wonderful and efficient Kadhim e Ala couldn't), now all eyes on respective Mayors and Councillors to take performance at a grass root level.

58

Re: NA 122:

listen to child hood friend of IK
IK has no friend now , He lost all in lust of power
ZemTv.Com ‏](https://twitter.com/zemtv)
Exclusive Interview Of Ayaz Sadiq With @HamidMirGEO](https://twitter.com/HamidMirGEO) http://www.zemtv.com/2015/08/24/capital-talk-ayaz-sadiq-exclusive-24th-august-2015/ …
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNNoLEJWsAACHSQ.jpg

59

Re: NA 122:

Great that u accept IK is no UN HUMAN. The same wording which is used by him if being used by any one else , than there must have been a storm on the internet.

Regarding salary of Armymen and how they run their house hold I really dont know and I want to know how they run they afford the luxurious life style and send their babies for foreign education. I will give example of wo of my friends. One left army after he become captain ( I think in 2 years ) and run away as it was very difficult for him as he dont see any future what he was expecting from his job. Other one continued and now he is colonial . He still driving hsi old charade which he bought by the tuitions he used to give. still in the same house which he inherited from his parents. I learn the stories of brave corruption from the insiders.
Brother of a friend of mine works in cantonment and he is the front face for all the loaders entering into the cantt. each and every had to pay ( 5 years back ) 1 red quaid-e-azam and the share is very beautifully distributed.
Another friend got contract of all billboards near blaoch colony fly over ( thanks to the links with local army resp. )
These are first hand info . I hope that not of the armymen are running their houses and sending their loved ones for foreign education like this. Many of bloody civilians having much better salary package but they cannot think of it.

I beleive a separate thread is needed for this subject. Waht i m keep riting is it not in the hate of Army rather it is due to bizzare thinking of some of the months of the year that all wrong doings are by the bloody civilians and all the good work by army. There are good and bad people both in army and civilians but mostly civilains/politicains are portrayed as traitors while Army men are saviours. I am very much against the criminal use of ISI for trying to find weaknesses of politicians for blackmailing them. I am totally against the work done by ISI in distributing money to form IJI . this is not the job of ISI. Had ISI been working what they are supposed to than we may not being having so many terrorists with in army / navy / airforce ( refer many attacks on army installations done by people with in.)

Lets accept the fact that the only patriots are not army men.

As for your claim about Ayub , yahya , zia being openly critisized ( except musharraf) . R you so naive. Any one had the balls to critisize them while they were in uniform ??? Recently The same wording of being profesional and blah blah which is used now for Raheel were being used for kyani. While all his sleeping performance he never being discussed while in uniform . It is only that his uniform is gone than some actions started being taken. That too I beleive with permission from Raheel sharif other wise holy cow to holy cow hey. No one can touch ...

I believe it is difficult to argue more as you need to see our on ground reality more closely and read some history of pakistan. Things will open up with passage of time. Till than both of us cud live with our own opinions freely with out trying to ridicule each other.
Allah kareem

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Whether you like it or not, Imran gets away with a lot of things because of his clean record! He's not a murderer, thug, racist fascist, thief, bigoted separatists hence even Army is a lot forgiving towards him because they know he is honest and clean, and he wants best for Pakistan. You wish you could say this other bloody civilians aka terrorists and gaddar MQM and others. In regards to your other point, when that tape came out, a lot of lame fauji haters quickly turned into Army lovers because it was Imran who said whatever he said. There was indeed a storm on internet - but mostly from hypocrites and opportunists.

[QUOTE]
Regarding salary of Armymen and how they run their house hold I really dont know and I want to know how they run they afford the luxurious life style and send their babies for foreign education. I will give example of wo of my friends. One left army after he become captain ( I think in 2 years ) and run away as it was very difficult for him as he dont see any future what he was expecting from his job. Other one continued and now he is colonial . He still driving hsi old charade which he bought by the tuitions he used to give. still in the same house which he inherited from his parents. I learn the stories of brave corruption from the insiders.
Brother of a friend of mine works in cantonment and he is the front face for all the loaders entering into the cantt. each and every had to pay ( 5 years back ) 1 red quaid-e-azam and the share is very beautifully distributed.
Another friend got contract of all billboards near blaoch colony fly over ( thanks to the links with local army resp. )
These are first hand info . I hope that not of the armymen are running their houses and sending their loved ones for foreign education like this. Many of bloody civilians having much better salary package but they cannot think of it.
[/QUOTE]

I am finding it hard to comprehend what you have written there - maybe you can explain your point in Urdu with more clarity.

In regards to your beating around the bush with Army 'salary package' - it is your ignorance that you think top Army men only survives on 'salary packages' - the higher you go in Army, the more perks, rewards and compensation you get . You bloody civilians may get the same salary package (let's not even talk about the salaery pakacge and lifestyle of bureaucrats), but they may not get the same perks from their employer to accommodate a certain lifestyle. Also, a lot of Army men and boys also belong to really well off families. Especially in Punjab, a lot of higher up usually belong to professional or land owning families. But sad reality is, there are higher officials who had benefited from martial laws by holding two lucrative jobs at once and easy access to prescribed luxury that comes with their titles, and then we have ignorant and bigoted idiots who hear about a general's lifestyle, and use it as a tool to generalize it on the whole institution which is made up of hardworking, disciplined and patriotic professionals.

[QUOTE]
I beleive a separate thread is needed for this subject. Waht i m keep riting is it not in the hate of Army rather it is due to bizzare thinking of some of the months of the year that all wrong doings are by the bloody civilians and all the good work by army. There are good and bad people both in army and civilians but mostly civilains/politicains are portrayed as traitors while Army men are saviours. I am very much against the criminal use of ISI for trying to find weaknesses of politicians for blackmailing them. I am totally against the work done by ISI in distributing money to form IJI . this is not the job of ISI. Had ISI been working what they are supposed to than we may not being having so many terrorists with in army / navy / airforce ( refer many attacks on army installations done by people with in.)
[/QUOTE]

If this is not sheer ignorance and blind hatred, then I don't know what is. This whole rona dhona about 'bloody civilians' forever victims getting really lame, it is based on lies and propaganda, I suggest read a book or two about Pakistan to know:

Ayub Khan is hated for wrecking the democratic system and inducing the curse of electoral rigging in Pakistan - against all Fatimah Jinnah (of all the people)
Yahya Khan is conveniently blamed for Bangladesh debacle

Zia ul Haq is hated for inducing religious extremism in Pakistan and creating the parasitic urban terrorist outfit MQM
Musharraf is hated for getting Pakistan involved in WoT, NRO, funding MQM, and whole bunch of other things

While your bloody civilians are considered holy shaheeds despite all the looting and plundering they had done against the nation. So have some shame and quit lying that Generals not blamed for all the mess in the country. You really think people are stupid and don't know the legacy of Generals in people's minds and intellectuals records? Are you really going to lie about the fact that Zia and Mushy are not hated in the country? Which bloody bunch bloody civilians are you trying to bail out here by your lame propaganda against the Army?

If you really want to have a cry about agencies spying on politicians, then talk about IB which is directly under Prime Minister's command, and just see how much truck load of money is pumped into IB just so they can tap politicians' phone calls. ISI has at least dozen of different operative departments, and the least of all is internal political surveillance. You simply don't know the depth and breadth of ISI. Don't tell them what their job is!

Correction: People may not like some army men, they would always always see Army as an institution the ultimate saviour of Pakistan. Everything from Zarb e Azb to NAP is a testament of this fact. Yes they had made mistake but they are only institution capable of putting things, and making a staggering comeback to win people's hearts. Your bloody civilian politicians simply cannot achieve this feat. This is the reality. Now go cry a river.

[QUOTE]
Lets accept the fact that the only patriots are not army men.

[/QUOTE]

Yes hence I support Imran and all the hardworking people in PTI. Honestly, I don't fall for this bloody civilian victimised BS, because I am not an insecure person who cannot praise Army yet support civilian democrats at the same time. It is only the hypocrites who whine and moan about bloody civilians not getting enough praise yet themselves fall short of supporting the good, patriotic and clean people because they want their bloody civilians to be nothing less than saints and messiahs - so why cry about Army expecting 100% perfection from bloody civilians?

But let's also except the fact that gaadaars are also found in bloody civilians - recent case in point, the dastard urban terrorists asking India and NATO forces to intervene in Pakistan, and calling country's creation a biggest blunder in the history of mankind, yet some bloody civilians have no shame apologising for those traitors.

[QUOTE]
As for your claim about Ayub , yahya , zia being openly critisized ( except musharraf) . R you so naive. Any one had the balls to critisize them while they were in uniform ??? Recently The same wording of being profesional and blah blah which is used now for Raheel were being used for kyani. While all his sleeping performance he never being discussed while in uniform . It is only that his uniform is gone than some actions started being taken. That too I beleive with permission from Raheel sharif other wise holy cow to holy cow hey. No one can touch ...
[/QUOTE]

Read a thing or two about how your bloody civilian politicians treated his opponents - he got them arrested, tortured, murdered. The thousands of political and ideological opponents MQM had killed is not a secret either. In the age of PTV, no one could easily criticise either the bloody civilians or Army rulers. So at the end do thank a General for releasing the media genie in the country.

[QUOTE]
Recently The same wording of being profesional and blah blah which is used now for Raheel were being used for kyani. While all his sleeping performance he never being discussed while in uniform . It is only that his uniform is gone than some actions started being taken. That too I beleive with permission from Raheel sharif other wise holy cow to holy cow hey. No one can touch .
[/QUOTE]

So much for your demeaning 'bla bla bla' to describe Gen Raheel's reputation, you don't think he deserves all the praise for eliminating terrorism in Pakistan and bringing peace? Why do you get so insecure and bitter whenever Gen. Raheel is praised? What is your problem?

Kiyani was indeed a professional as he did not intervene in politics and minded his own business (which was to avoid a war and end this conflict through talks). On the other hand, your bloody civilians were getting a hard time by a Noora backed Chief Justice (a bloody civilian institution which dismissed two of its Prime Ministers) not a General. If Kiyani was not a professional, he would have sent Zardari home long time ago. If anything, Gen Kiyani failed to show leadership by putting his foot down in front of the bloody civilians and pursuing operation with full conviction and independence. He is rightly criticised for not putting the bloody civilians in their place, and take an independent initiative against the Taliban, like Gen. Raheel.

As far as I know there are no action being taken against Gen. Kiyani himself. He was seated next to Gen. Raheel on an independence day event. Why do you lie so much and do all this propaganda? Why?

[QUOTE]
I believe it is difficult to argue more as you need to see our on ground reality more closely and read some history of pakistan. Things will open up with passage of time. Till than both of us cud live with our own opinions freely with out trying to ridicule each other.
Allah kareem
[/QUOTE]

I have read enough history in Pakistan, and all I know Generals are rightly blamed for all the blunders and bad policies since Pakistan was mainly ruled by Army men for most part of its existence. No amount of lying and propaganda from you can change this reality. You must be living under a rock if you think likes of Zia and Musharraf had gotten a clean chit. In Pakistan, Bhuttos are eulogized, MQM is considered lone saviours of Muhajirs, Sardars are considered the only legitimate guardians and rulers of Balochistan, PMLN is a victim of military interference cutting their rules short - yet we have people like you who lie through their teeth and say only civilians portrayed as evil, and only their faults are picked on. Only they are punished. I asked you to give me a list of all those civilians who are punished for their crime?

Your problem is that you are simply too insecure, paranoid and prejudiced to tolerate anyone praising the Army. You use this disgusting term 'bloody civilians' with so much pride to do propaganda, you project this term on Army and make it seem like as if the whole Army sees aam awaam as bloody civilians, while the actual term was used against by a military dictator against filthy and criminal politicians like BB and NS. Army men's families are part of the same bloody civilians you claim they hate.

I won't waste a breath defending dictators, but when you do all the crying about bloody civilian politicians which innocent bloody civilian are you trying to bail out - Benezir, Zardari, Altaf Hussain and his army of bhatta khors and target killers, Nawaz Shari and his family, Ch brothers, Mulah Fazlu, Munwar hussain?

Which innocent bloody civilian politicians are just as patriotic, efficient and professional as Army men - name them and I might agree and start praising them (I have my won group but let's hear yours)