Myths Created by MQM

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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|burqa I agree with you 100% here. There should be complete harmony between Sindhis and USPs(I assume this mean urdu speaking people) for survival and prosperity of Sindh.

Regarding quota system, it was Yahyas government in Sindh, I forgot the name of the then governor and sub-marshallaw adminintrator who introduced quota system through ordinance. The decent military man of the time was criticsed severly, but he just implemented these rules without fear. He was pathan and kind hearted gentleman.

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Read my post. I said in 'good institutions'.

Also there is no quota system other than Afro-americans asking for it and granted in very few numbers. Majority still is based on merit system.

Other kind of quota system is in immigration and trade in US. Not in jobs, education etc.

I never said anyone inferior intellectually. I also never said do not give equal opportunities to everyone. Being intellectual does not mean skilled for a particular job or eligible for a particular profession.

Its the responsibility of the Govt. to ensure. I also said waderas sardars and choudharies etc. are to blame for lack of opportunities for people outside urban areas. Read my post again where I talked about solution. This answers your next post also.

We will not go anywhere with this discussion I can assure you. Quota system killed Pakistani infrastructure. And we see the result in present day.

Police is corrupt, govt. workers are lazy, students walk around with guns and banks employs decoits as bank managers and cashiers.
Only way for a country to flourish is merit system.

I said what I said. Its up to you to get the grasp of it or not. No need to beat this forever my friend.

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Re: Myths Created by MQM

Brother, diwana.

Its the docotors on qouta system admission that stay in Pakistan, merit waley are all in USA or UK.

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burqa:

This is interesting. What do you think was the reason that Punjabi-speaking from rural were getting more jobs and university seats in open-merit system? Did they work harder, or are they more intelligent?
But regardless of answer, it shows that open-merit system CAN benefit COMPETENT rural people. And lending them the jobs by unjustified/immoral/prejudiced quota system only worsens the problem for the country and for the province, as is evident from Sindh’s example.

Secondly, Punjab extends beyond the Punjabi speaking northern Punjab. Just look at the disadvantaged “rural” Seraiki speaking people, and let me know their share in jobs and university seats. The answer is self-evident from the fact that there is a cry of creating a Seraiki province in southern Punjab due to Saraiki claims of injustices at that hands of Punjabi-speaking northern Punjab.

So all this talk of quota system for disadvantaged is nothing but a dhakosla.

On the same note, if quota system is oh-so-good then what about implementing it in NWFP and Balochistan? Why people have problems only in Sindh?

What also is worth noting is that quota system in Sindh was created for 20 years, and it was expected by Bhutto that rural Sindh will improve by that time. What happened was that the whole Sindh, inc. Karachi, got worse due to these myopic policies.
The limited time which was argued while implementing this unIslamic system shows that Bhutto also knew that he was wrong fundamentally.

Lastly, we all know that Bhutto and Zia’s stupidity of introducing quota system to “help” rural Sindh did not work:
http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/pakistan-poverty-double-in-rural-sindh-than-urban-areas/
The rural areas of Sindh province have been facing with abject poverty and a release of Planning and Development Department, Government of Sindh (GoS), issued here on Saturday, showing serious concern over the yawning rural-urban divide has revealed that the poverty head count ratio in the rural areas is almost double than in the urban areas, said.

Wht r u doing ?
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Excellent Iconoclast. I know what you are saying.

I had this thought myself. But if we look deeply we come to following points to ponder.

1- Highly skilled or potentially highly skilled faced many major problems even after finishing training. They had knowledge and intelligence and skill was added to them since they worked hard to acquire that despite resistance from within the medical school or teaching hospital.

2- To pass FCPS or local exam was more difficult due to politics than taking foreign exam and obtain residency. Educated ones depended upon their knowledge and were disappointed to see 'other' criteria to be successful in the country. They refused to just open a shop and treat like general physicians when they had potential to learn higher skills. Everyone could pass part one exam, but part two exam had a silly interview attached where they would be asked ludicrous questions.

3- To be able to get in to civil service after training they had same hurdle. They were asked where they were born or their parents were born. They were willing to serve but stopped at the checkpoint.

(Just to give you example of politics, there used to be exam to enter in Army Medical college. The form to be filled out had several questions asking where the parents were born and if there was any family member in Army already. If not born outside Karachi/Hyderabad/Sukkhar or had any high ranking family member in Army ....then forget the admission. You have knowledge or skill... so what!)

4- There are many who did go back. Some stayed in Pakistan and some again returned due to security and other issues including lack of facilities to utilize their skills and even politics in hospitals. They were openly told to go back and were discouraged to stay.

(Off course after staying in relatively more secure places, they did not like being robbed at gunpoint with no legal help whatsoever. Had to give bribe for almost anything to be done and had to deal with common problems including not even getting their mail on time if that ever reached the destination! )

5- The attitude of local Pakistani physicians is negative to say the least towards foreign trained physicians trying to establish there. (can we call this sour grape phenomenon?..not sure.)

Even if they try to discuss with local physicians to treat their family members, they were given cold shoulder. Many examples can be cited but I think this would suffice for now.

6- There is a sizable number of people who paid their dues by engaging in teaching seminars and educational activities in Pakistan. Many got involved in health education of common people all across Pakistan.

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Does it come naturally or you work hard not to make any sense in almost every post?

Your analogy is same as someone crying about not getting admission to Yale, Harvard or Princeton from not qualifying based on grades and test results. Remember, USP's /Muhajirs did not have any criteria but merit for jobs or schools/college admissions. They even failed their own children if not qualified and stressed on getting good grades.

Abolition of quota system based on ethnicity, place of birth as opposed to merit system is the only solution of low standard in all sectors, regardless who says what. We should stop mixing horses with donkeys wherever they come from or belong to.

Any person from any part of country should be able to work, live and get education based on merit and merit **only. This does require **equivalent, fair, non-biased and universal test however.

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Amen brother. We agree about the FUTURE of the Quota system.

The only trouble is that your understanding of Quota System's PAST is incorrect.

Kion itni lumbi chortay ho bhai. Paon joray hain kiya?

USPs made sure very few Sindhis get admission into the STATE funded Universities (from 1950s to 1980s).

So forget about living in the la land of the made up, khawabi history.

We must own up to our PAST discrimination against Sindhis. Otherwise we'll not have a good future.

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LOL...

You have failed to prove your point again.

What was the standard in obtaining admission to colleges, schools and jobs before quota system when according to you also muhajirs/USP's were in bureaucracy?

How did they stop any Sindhi to get admissions? Care to explain?

You get grades, you get admission. Simple. No domicile no quota.

Now what happened was that Sindhis got grades in the range of 80's and 99 out of 100 in Sindhi language test in rural areas while Muhajirs barely gave 50 or 60 numbers to USP's in Urdu test despite the best efforts by test taker in Karachi. Hence Sindhis got admission to Karachi/urban School.

Sir, its not a made up story at all. Majority of first generation Muhajirs were too idealistic and did not have 'politics' in their mind. Result was obvious with good standard in schools and colleges and need not be explained. Wish that this tend was continued.

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MQM is the only middle class party of Pakistan. Rest are all feudals

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I know this dude is banned but rest assure he has an agenda using internal issues for his evil mission.

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Kala peer Altaf's dad was a mochi in Agra, Behar in India and the black peer's complains partition was a blunder.

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LOL

While there were definitely some idealists which adhered to merit, majority of first generation muhajirs were busy bringing fake claim papers from India to usurp the urban property left behind by hindus. Read Shahabnama by Qudratullah Shahab and he describes how they travelled back and forth from India to Pakistan to bring fake papers. Sindh Displaced Peoples Act was promulgated in 1950! to make a scheme for migrants to be handed over evicted property of hindus to migrants.

Can you explain why migration from UP, CP and Deccan continued in 1950s, while migration from East Punjab (3 times more in number than from rest of India) was completed just in few weeks after establishment of Pakistan?

Mix The username ABove
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You have touched a very different topic here. Merely to show hatred.

Sir, there might be few people who tried to fake papers, even locals took over properties left by Hindus bigger than they already had.

Majority still were placed in small camps like houses until the process was settled and they did not even get what they genuinely asked for.

I don't think you have any idea of geography. Moving from east to west Punjab is like jumping over an invisible wall.

Migration should never have closed. If Pakistan was made for muslims to live and enjoy their faith then why stop Muslims to come and live there?

There are two countries in the world based on ideology and religion. Israel and Pakistan. We know Israel still allows Jews to come and live there since 1948.

*Are we saying finances took over ideology?
*
Anyhow, lots of rich, educated and skilled muslims were also stopped when migration was closed.

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diwana bhai, yes i agree that ideally migration should not have been stopped. But contnuing migration would have resulted in problems for muslims population itself in India, which would be seen as "foreigners" who are Pakistani citizen, that can cross border and loyalty at any time. Hence Nehru and Quad-e-azam had declared in few months after partition that everyone should stay where they are.

As for ideology, then brother shouldn;t the ideology be that the porr be given preferece over rich? The less fortunate in terms of education and wealth be developed and invested in? Was this ideology praciced by our rulers and beaurocracy of 1940s and 1950s?

Audio Poetry
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Interesting thread.

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yeah whatevery any to bash MQM is interesting:D:
lets see how mnay jokers and hatters iss kare khair mein hessa lenge:chupki:

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^ I think, aap ke bhi posts iss tarah ki 'khair' wali threads main mojud hoti hain, agar wo kisi aur party ke khilaaf hon to!

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No no needs to ‘bash’ the MQM - MQM do it all by themselves.

As long as the MQM keeps killiing thousands, collecting bhatta, and running itself based on terrorism and crime, it proves all those ‘bashers’ right.

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whats the point bringing up a two years old thread ? if you got something new to discuss - open one on your own ...

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Quota system is a part of affirmative action , which tries to compensate the disadvantaged group , with a form of protection , ensuring some sort or minimum representation to safe gaurd their interests.

Pakistan has seen , three versions of Quota System.

1st one was introduced in Sep 1948 , it used a Regional/Provincial model for recruitment in Govt Jobs...and accordingly

Bengal had a 42% Quota 56% Population
Punjab a 23% Quota 28% Population
All Other provinces and Princely States had a 17% Quota 13.75 % Populatiion
Potential Immigrants from India 15% population considered about 9.8% as Potential
and Karachi had a 2% seperate Quota popuation 1.5%

.... this lead to the disparity we see till 71 .

This was then revised in Nov 49
and now instead of using the term Potential immigrant .... merit was used.
and new quota was

Merit 20%
Bengal 40%
Punjab including Bhawalpur 23%
Karachi 2%
All other 15%

and under the 1956 constitution its scope was uptill March 71. that is for 15 years.
1962 's constitution reduced the term for 10 years , that is till 72...so actually extended the term by a couple of months.

71 and subsequent break up of Pakistan changed not only the demographies , but also the weightage in terms of population shift.

Sindh started showing a heavy Urban/Rural ....divide as Ethinic divide ...between Sindhis nearly all rural and Mohajirs nearly all Urban.

the new percentages according to the changed realities was then

Merit 10%
Punjab 50%
NWFP 11.5 %
Balochistan 3.5%
FATA 4%
Azad Kashmir 2%

and Sindh 19% ..sub divided using a 60/40 formula of Urban/rural division into 11.4 Rural and 7.6 Urban .

source of the Figures is Mohammed Waseem : Affirmative Action Policies in Pakistan.... all other interjection is mine.

you can google , and download its available...