Myths Created by MQM

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

DD:

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So since inception migrant muslims from India had an over representation in governemnt jobs.
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Reason Muslims from India were over-represented in government was not the quota system but merit. Most people who migrated in Pakistan were middle-class educated people.

[quote]
It was only when this anomaly was being corrected during Bhutto's regime who separated the qouta for urban vs rural Sindh to give a deserving chance to rural Sindhi population that this propaganda of victimhood unleashed.
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Bhutto actually created an anomaly by establishing a quota system ONLY for Sindh province. He divided jobs in Sindh, arguing that people from rural areas can not compete with more educated people from urban areas, and therefore need a quota in jobs. But he did not use this same logic when it came to other provinces, like Punjab, NWFP or Balochistan.
Reason is obvious. His quota system was designed especially to deprive the more educated people from urban Sindh, mostly muhajirs, to enter government jobs.

Thus he did not correct the anomaly, but created a worst-possible anomaly by depriving the most skilled people to run the government. This ensured that government will be run by semi-skilled people, and clearly, such a system could never be efficient.
This is not just illogical but also against the teachings of Islam. And it is unfortunate that people like DD support such a system which deprives the best people for the job. And DD obviously supports this unIslamic system because of his hatred against a section of Pakistani population.

42

Yes. Unfortunately its true.

The division of urban and rural was only in the province of Sind.

For a country to flourish only system which is valid is merit system.

43

You have repeated word educated or uneducated in your post.

Perhaps you did not like me using word uneducated in my above post. Sorry. I can say unskilled or unfit for job. Is that OK? :-)

44

Ethnic cleansing is a strong term to use, but at inception of Pakistan migrants had a lot of say in in terms of government policy and there are many examples that they decided things despite opposition from local population.

Firstly, the reason why they had power, is that in early days of Pakistan, military beaurocracy had not yet involved in affairs of state, military came in only after Ayub came to power. The feudal lords could only exercise their power in two ways, one over their subjects in villages and second through their voice in parliament. Both had zero impact on government policy and job situation. So in absence of military power and fuedal influence, the civil beaurocracy had un-opposed power.

There are many examples of this power. For instance Sindhis bitterly opposed separation of Karachi from Sindh for being the capital, but it was done nontheless. The high qouta of migrants created by Liaqat Ali KHan is another.

It was only for these disproportionatekly high oppurtunities for migrants compared to locals that while migration of people from east Punjab to west punjab completed in just a short time, it continued for rest of muhajors well into 50s.

And advantages gained over a decade cannot diminish over few years.

45

I appreciate that integration into a new culture and language would have been difficult for urdu speaking compared to punjabies BUT the evidence suggests that no effort was made on the contrary right from beginning migrants in karachi wanted to be separated from Sindhis. And this had support of muslim league of karachi. There are statements of early 1950s of President Muslim League karachi SM Tariq and secretary general muhsin siddique asking to grant Karachi a provincial status.

46

The feeling of not having a string role in national politics makes sense when it comes from a community that is largely dis-advantaged and backward such as Balochis, but, does not make sense if it comes from a community that was and still is at top of socio-economic order in Pakistan. The household survey of Karachi in 1998 showed that muhajir and punjabis had best socio-economic status.

Its true that the feeling of an eroding power for muhajirs came during Bhutto era, but this was relative to their previously held position and not relative to Sindhis who remained disadvantaged compared to urban population.

As for being docileand passive, pathans consider every other community passive as compared to them. They had similar attitude in Punjab.

Timepass - September 2013
47

Qouta should be applied to give chance to under privileged people otherwise you will just perpetuate the disadvantage of under served communities.

How much oppurtunities does governement provide to son of a poor peasant of interior Sindh compared to that of a clerk in Karachi? Can tehy have equal oppurtunity?

48

Of course it should give a chance to under privilaged people. But don't you think it should be applied across the board? Why people from other three provinces are treated as three entities and for Sindh we have a quota for urban and rural Sindh. There are many under privilaged people in Punjab too, why shouldn't we introduce quota for Nothern and Shouthern Punjab? The point is any system looses it's credibility if it is applied in unjust manner. If we have to have a quota system in place to help under privilged people in different areas of country, it should be applied in all 4 provinces; or there should be only provincial quota.

[QUOTE]

How much oppurtunities does governement provide to son of a poor peasant of interior Sindh compared to that of a clerk in Karachi? Can tehy have equal oppurtunity?
[/QUOTE]
How about Sindh Public services commission announcing vacancies for rural Sindh every 2nd or 3rd year and after every 5 or 7 years for Urban Sindh? becuase that is exactly what is happening in Sindh since past 30+ years. Who has better opportunity to acquire government jobs here? Of course during this 5 or 7 years period Government does hire people on CONTRACT or adhoc basis, but they are chosen on different criteria. hint hint who ever is running the particular department/ministry gets the lions share

49

:rotfl: if those three jerkwads are the best in MQM, then I dont know what to say… Kamal’s decent behavior? Lets see, pointing to mazdoors in rag tag clothing in Karchi, calling pakhtuns terrorists in interviews to NPR; yelling and threatening journalists for no reason; abusing and humiliating helpless women and cursing their fathers? is this what you define decency and sincere behavior? Need I say more? Even a kanlga jahil politician like Laloo Prasad Yadav has more decency and sincerety than these thugs.

50

K Khan please understand how evolution of qouta system occured starting from time of Liaqat Ali Khan as i have mentioned in my first post.

As for why it is employed only in Sindh, the reason is that other provinces never asked their respective governments to do that. There was never any discord between urban punjab vs rural punjab and same goes for rest of provinces. In Sindh the Sindhis felt that they were at disadvantage because of several reasons. Like the initial hig qouted awarded to migrants and bcoz of urdu language. It should be noted that Bangalis also had fierce opposition to having urdu as sole national language, they also said that they would be disadvantaged at civil service exams. They wanted Bangla to be official language of East Pak and urdu to be of west Pak, it took them a decade to get it done.

I do however agree that a proper implementation of qouta system should be done, that is, it should not be based upon domicile but upon social circumstances. Not that a son of wadera who gets all his education at a convent school in karachi later gets admission on qouta for rural Sindh.

51

Khoji Bhai, perhaps we all need to open some books, some records something that is beyond sunni-sunnai batain.

Just like your comment on "No USP came from Khokhrapar", this quota system comment too is off base.

Bhutto DID NOT start 2% quota for Sindh Urban.

It was

Nawwab Zadah Liaqat Ali Khan who fixed 2% for Sindh Urban, and 15% for USPs still in India. Thus making 17% of Federal jobs for USP only.

Bhutto was a bad bad man for Pak, but 2% Quota was not started by him.

Just a fact. nothing personal bhai.

52

It was not 2% that Bhutto started. It was 60-40 quota that he started.
Liaquat’s quota did not help muhajirs as much as when when open merit was introduced in 1949. Muhajirs, with their literacy rate of 70%, saw the share increase in government jobs.

Contributions of Z.A. Bhutto & Benazir Bhutto for welfare of Sindh and Sindhis Indus Asia Online Journal (iaoj)

Z. A. Bhutto played a key role in establishing a quota system with 60%-40% rural-urban distribution.

Quota system is un-Islamic system. No sane person can approve of the murder of merit.

Wht r u doing ?
53

I am aware of this flawed argument very well.

The solution was not quota system as we know it promotes lazy, unskilled and unfit people to enter in to govt. machinery and other sectors.

This argument is is equivalent to letting everyone enter in to college regardless of what grades they get merely based on where they were born. We have seen disastorous results from this with lawlesslness and bloodshed by people who had good connection to powerful people for example let alone a halt in producing intelligent, skilled scientists, scholars, researchers etc.

Solution was to let everyone get good education by forcing sardars, waderas etc. to accept the importance of education.

Yes govt has responsibility to provisde equal opportunity to everyone.

As I mentioned, two major reasons for quota system to be bad for the country.

1- It discourages people to struggle for best.

2- It allows second class or even third class people to enter by backdoor into public service etc.

We should have learned from nations who are far advanced and they have merit system as the basis of any skilled job or good institution.

I am amazed to even have to explain this.

Wht r u doing ?
54

Re: Myths Created by MQM

^ I am amazed that you don't even know qouta system exists in countries much advanced than ours like USA. India has progressed much better than us, while implementing qoutas. I suspect that you somehow feel that those with less oppurtunities and hence faring less well in terms of a flawed system of assessment aka Paki exams are somehow inferior intelectually.

Peace Dialog with taleban
55

Re: Myths Created by MQM

I am also amazed that on one hand you do not want to spend anything more on education and resources on poors of villages and on teh other hand also want to eliminate those who enter on qouta, mighty selfish of you.

56

well its aint unjustified and was the need of the hour for the reason when one person living in the city enjoying all the benefits of the govt better infrastructure, schooling and other in rural area where he had to travel 5-10 miles by foot for primary school and 20-40 miles for college and with very basic environment somebody needs to something for that under dog as well.
and 40% is not lesser quota unless you wanted 100% .

by the way it didnt help rurals as they got more lazy if we had left them for 10-15 years they would have themselves grown competent.
also they got used to government jobs which rusted them whereas in cities people were opting for private more paying jobs which didnt even were well paid but kept them current all along their careers...

so before riding of the bandwagon or doing the talk for talk do go through fact, causes and whats the reality on ground....

57

here every soul want everything they blame quota system when they had to do the talk.

58

DD:

[quote]
Qouta should be applied to give chance to under privileged people otherwise you will just perpetuate the disadvantage of under served communities
[/quote]
If quota system is oh-so-good then why not apply it in Punjab too?
Where is shehri-dehi divide in Punjab for Seraikis?

59

Every Muslim should blame murder of merit when it comes to selecting the right people for job.

As someone said earlier, the best way to increase representation of every one would be to improve educational system.
But our waderas and chaudhrys don't want it to happen.

latest news and gossip
60

Amen brother. Quota system should be temporary and only reserved for "extremely disadvantaged groups".

Punjab actually benefited for not having urban-rural quota. Based on census results, it is clear that they have MAJORITY Jobs/university seats going to the rural Punjab. While big cities like Lahore, Faisalabad, Multan, and Pindi have a very low share in jobs and university seats.

The result has been a mass migration from rural to urban Punjab over the last 60 years.

And that has made the Punjab cities much more dynamic at every socioeconomic level.

On the other hand, USPs in Karachi built virtual walls around Sindh urban since 1949 till now. This virtual wall is not too different from the walls being build by Israel around its towns and cities. The purpose is to virtually stop poor Palestinian villagers from coming into Israel.

We in Karachi did the same thing by virtually stopping the flow from Sindh rural to Sindh urban by blocking off jobs, university seats, and above all HOUSING.

The problem now is that MQM and USP pressure groups WANT to increase the quota for USPs instead of abolishing it.

So yes we have to convince our own communities and cities to open up our hearts, houses, and university seats to rural Sindhis.

We also need to make sure that a specific quota of Karachi city jobs is reserved for Sindhis. The specific quota should be based on the number of Sindhis in a given area.

If say one area of Karachi has 2% Sindhis, then housing preferences and provincial loans should be given to Sindhis to bring their share up to reflect their ratio in the province.

The same way Sindhi areas that have very low numbers of USPs should set aside funds and seats for the USPs.

Then only then we will be able to end the rural-urban divide in Sindh and turn Sindh province into a dynamic place similar to other provinces in the region.

p.s. While we are at it, we must open up FATA and other areas to non-locals by adding quota in jobs and schools.