Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
One more thing. I found security people in Masjid-e-nabawi very polite. They will ask you to move on, but they almost always did it with a smile.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I was in makkah and madina not too long ago. I have lived in saudia one third of my life on various occasions.
Racism in saudia is definitely something that WAS a huge in the past. Why I say WAS is that saudis have grown a bit mature culturally. Their youth is a bit more educated, has gained exposure and is somewhat more pleasant and civil than it used to be. But we still get to hear or witness certain stupid incidents involving arrogant saudis at times.
However, since this thread is mostly about holy mosques in makkah and madinah, experiences are varying in nature for many people. Some are lucky enough to come across pleasant and civil security guards and arabs who dont care what your race is and who consider it their holy duty to serve people to the best of their abilities. Similarly, some pilgrims face the most racist of guards, people and pilgrims and face discriminations.
However, I will add one thing here. Hajj is supposed to test your patience and if you face hardships there, be philosophical and religious about it and consider it an azmaish from HIM (For the record, Pushing and shoving doesnt count much of a test). Yes people from certain nationalities consider it their divine right to roll all over you in order to reach blackstone, or do tawaaf closer to baitullah.. you just adjust accordingly. The bigger tests are discrimination, lack of suitable facilities, lack of cooperation from certain authorities (and if you are from Pakistan, than ministry of Hajj). But thats being part of the whole experience.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
good point about the difference in thinking between generations.
the older saudis were fine, but the crop that grew up in the sudden boom of petro dollars in the 70's was just awful.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I remember when we entered jamraat on a very hot day, guards were standing their with card board pieces, using them as hand fan to cool down the haajis. It was an extremely sweet gesture on their part. They were not required to do that. I almost hugged one guard just for the gesture and really prayed from him from the bottom of my heart.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I remember when we entered jamraat on a very hot day, guards were standing their with card board pieces, using them as hand fan to cool down the haajis. It was an extremely sweet gesture on their part. They were not required to do that. I almost hugged one guard just for the gesture and really prayed from him from the bottom of my heart.
Wow.
You know what, I didn't want to go hajj before but you have kinda inspired me and for few weeks I'm trying to prepare myself for it.
It's funny because my relatives are always going to hajj or umra but it never really made me feel that way.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Hareem, I just kept one thing in mind that as foreign the experience is for me, its equally unique for Saudis also. Every single year, 75% of the people are first time haajis so Saudis are dealing with new set of people. That creates a new set of problem. I like to give them a little credit as it is not easy to manage a crowd of 3-4 million people.
Another thing I like to share about Saudis. No muslim nation in the world has money that Saudis have, and I thanked God that he put Haram and Masjid Nabawi in a country of that much of wealth. Saudis went out of their way to make Haram and Nabawi as comfortable as possible for the people, all the way from giant fold out umbrellas in the courtyard of Masjid Nabawi to the water lined cooled marble floors in Haram. Not to mention that they put a pipeline of Zum Zum water from Makkah to Madina (450 KM) so you can drink filtered zum zum inside masjid-e-nabawi.
When you walk on the streets of Makkah, all of a sudden you see someone pops up from somewhere started distributing water bottles, food boxes, juice boxes, fruits and more. These are just normal residents of Makkah who do that. Its our duty that when we look at the bad stuff, we dont forget the good stuff that Saudi nation offers for the haajis.
one more thing. When we were traveling from Madina to Makkah and from Makkah to Jeddah, at every check post, govt volunteers would enter our buses and would load us with boxes of water, snacks, dates and what not. I mean they were doing things that they were not required to do. I salute them for that.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Don't forget the disco lights on the clock tower.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Are we talking about the new tower of ben? :D
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I kind of agree that clock tower was an over kill.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^^ You'll be alright inshallah...just bear in mind your patience will be tested but make sure that you are kind and patient regardless of what anyone throws at you - for that you'll be rewarded greatly...also be kind to others - you'll find some people will ask you for favours - some of them (mainly old people) may ask you to get them zumzum water etc...you'll get rewarded for any assistance you do provide...
Inshallah your hajj/umrah will be accepted...
What a beautiful sentiment - spoken as a true humanitarian.
as for the last sentence, let me add my best wishes to Hareem's goal - hope you make it Hareem
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I think it is just normal. not racism but the kind of difficulties you had at the holy mosque. it happens at every major religious location regardless of religion and culture.( or atleast i had the experience) for you it is your first and only visit and it is special but for people who live and work over there is a daily job and nothing extraordinary.
well may be vetican is different as white people are a bit more civilized in social gatherings
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Yet another benefit of learning Arabic
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Hareem, I just kept one thing in mind that as foreign the experience is for me, its equally unique for Saudis also. Every single year, 75% of the people are first time haajis so Saudis are dealing with new set of people. That creates a new set of problem. I like to give them a little credit as it is not easy to manage a crowd of 3-4 million people.
Another thing I like to share about Saudis. No muslim nation in the world has money that Saudis have, and I thanked God that he put Haram and Masjid Nabawi in a country of that much of wealth. Saudis went out of their way to make Haram and Nabawi as comfortable as possible for the people, all the way from giant fold out umbrellas in the courtyard of Masjid Nabawi to the water lined cooled marble floors in Haram. Not to mention that they put a pipeline of Zum Zum water from Makkah to Madina (450 KM) so you can drink filtered zum zum inside masjid-e-nabawi.
When you walk on the streets of Makkah, all of a sudden you see someone pops up from somewhere started distributing water bottles, food boxes, juice boxes, fruits and more. These are just normal residents of Makkah who do that. Its our duty that when we look at the bad stuff, we dont forget the good stuff that Saudi nation offers for the haajis.
one more thing. When we were traveling from Madina to Makkah and from Makkah to Jeddah, at every check post, govt volunteers would enter our buses and would load us with boxes of water, snacks, dates and what not. I mean they were doing things that they were not required to do. I salute them for that.
such a lovely entry ma sha Allah and Jazaa'k Allah. more so because you just validated my point and expressed it even better. im happy that someone pointed out the positives that are out of the way too. Jazaa'k Allah once again.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
It's human nature to complain and forget the good things people experienced. I saw and hear that even if one problem occurs - but the good things overweight this problem - people still complain. This world is nothing but a test. We shall be grateful that the majority of us has the opportunity to perform Hajj whereas a few of our brothers/sisters die in vain, because they don't have the opportunity. This Thread - in my eyes - invites women not to perform the Hajj at all. Instead of complaining we should pray 5 Times, perform the Tahajjud Prayers daily, recite the Darood-Sharif and leave it all to Allah (swt). The greatest weapon a Muslim has is his/her prayers and sending of Salam to the Ummah of Muhammad Mustafa (saw) and Ibrahim (as) by reciting the Darood-Sharif.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I completely disagree, just because it is a religious obligation and a big honor to be able to go for Hajj does not mean that incorrect practices are not pointed out and addressed. At one time there were fires in the tent cities of mina and muzdalfa, it was due to complaints and concerns that those were addressed, similarly ppl complained of the crowding and unsafe conditions at jamaraat, and the authorities noticed and tried to make it better, at one time the floor for tawwaf was not cooled either and man it was a scorcher putting feet on the black marble tiles, but that was changed too. Somewhere someone, whether it is a haji or someone in the organizers is saying, this is not right, or it can be made better, so lets do something about it.
complaining about unpleasant experiences does not take anything away from everything that is good, or make someone's hajj invalid. It may just help make changes that impact the experiences of future hajis in a positive manner.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^ I agree with X2.
And to be fair, I think that Saudi govt does take care of major concerns. It may not appear at micro level but someone up there is keeping an eye. A very recent example is when our own holy hajj ministry of Pakistan f***d up (pardon my french) our hajis and then Saudi ministry intervene.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Yet another benefit of learning Arabic
As per experiences of many , that does not help your from being discriminated against.
OP said that they separating non Arabs from Arabs , and she also said it was because they give instructions to those folks in their own language , how can this be called discrimination or segregation ?
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I completely disagree, just because it is a religious obligation and a big honor to be able to go for Hajj does not mean that incorrect practices are not pointed out and addressed. At one time there were fires in the tent cities of mina and muzdalfa, it was due to complaints and concerns that those were addressed, similarly ppl complained of the crowding and unsafe conditions at jamaraat, and the authorities noticed and tried to make it better, at one time the floor for tawwaf was not cooled either and man it was a scorcher putting feet on the black marble tiles, but that was changed too. Somewhere someone, whether it is a haji or someone in the organizers is saying, this is not right, or it can be made better, so lets do something about it.
complaining about unpleasant experiences does not take anything away from everything that is good, or make someone's hajj invalid. It may just help make changes that impact the experiences of future hajis in a positive manner.
No one is saying that Hajj becomes invalid if you complain but it leaves a bitter taste. Why address this issue @gupshup ? Why not address it to the local authorities? Make it better if you can! You cannot - no offense intended - because the OP already failed when the complaining started @gupshup and that is a shame and I cannot understand what is so likeable in your post. Now imagine the local authorities coming by accident to this page and watching this Thread. What will they think? They will get proud and maybe next time you will have the worst trip of your life. Why be like them? Be Better than them. Why is Allah (swt) the greatest? Because he approaches you with 10 steps when you only make 1 step. You know why Muhammad Mustafa (saw) was the greatest of the Prophets? the greatest Human being to ever walk on this Earth? Because he told the people directly in a nice manner what was wrong with them or with their attitude instead of taking a loudspeaker and running through the village.
This is a fairytale that it will have a impact on future Hajji's after reading the OP. The coming Hajji's will behave the same or worse because they will grab what they see and continue with this behaviour. They will say "Why shall I change if they behave this way?". They will copy them. I was and sadly I'm still the best example, but my father says I have to answer Allah (swt) and I shall not behave like them. I shall behave better. It is hard to overcome behaviours which have tighten your mind, your heart and soul over the years, but I'm trying to strive for the good and become a better person. It does not mean you shall stay silent when you see something which can't be applied to Islam and is not the Sunnah of the Prophet, but you can tell this people and educate them to behave better by giving examples from the Life of our beloved Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (saw) if they don't know and I have seen enough people who know the Prophet, but know zero about his life and how he behaved and treated. This is why I said and still say to pray Darood-Sharif. It's a prayer for Muhammad Mustafa (saw), for Ibrahim (as), for our Ummat, for the Ummat of Ibrahim (as) and especially for yourself. Take it or leave it.
You completely misunderstood my point. No problem. Allah is great.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^^
I wanted to share my experiences so people do NOT behave as such in the future...Like someone said it is a test...bad experiences should be shared..they remind us of areas that we can improve in...
This should not discourage people from going to Hajj/Umrah - this should make them more mindful of their manners and etiquettes when performing Hajj/Umrah...
And....If I knew who to go to, trust me, I would told the authorities about certain incidences...
This should leave a bitter taste in your mouth...you should take it on board (myself included) and try and make things better...
Seriously, the base of me sharing these things is because I HATE, with all my heart racism especially in the Muslim ummah...this term should not even exist amongst Muslims and to see that it does...well I'm not staying quiet about that...
May Allah guide this ummah..Ameen...
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
There are good and bad people everywhere. Saudi Govt and people (as a whole) pass this test by hosting millions of pilgrims every year. It is a HUGE responsibility and not all of them realize this. And hence some of them behave that irks people. But like TLK said, most of them do things which they are not asked to and they do it to 'serve' people.
When I was there for umrah just prior to hujj, I read in arab news that 10 security guards were fired from makkah mosque because one of them slapped a janitor and others ridiculed him. So it is not like authorities turn a blinde eye to it. I will try to find the link.
Point is, that this is the utmost honour and huge test for whole saudi arabia and not all of them pass it. And every year, we see some improvements.