Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
From what I've seen, Pakistanis are generally looked down upon or ignored by the Arab and Persian population. It's worse if you're Shia.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
It is interestiing how the conduct of those who break into lines, monopoloze their worshipping time at the expense of others, the discriminatory practices followed by authorities in terms of nationality etc is being overlooked by some, while holding folks who obey the rules to a much much higher standard - look the other way, deal with it etc.
It seems some have rose colored glasses and want to hear only positives. Last I cehcked, this is a forum where we state our experiences, both positive and somethimes negative.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
It is interestiing how the conduct of those who break into lines, monopoloze their worshipping time at the expense of others, the discriminatory practices followed by authorities in terms of nationality etc is being overlooked by some, while holding folks who obey the rules to a much much higher standard - look the other way, deal with it etc.
It seems some have rose colored glasses and want to hear only positives. Last I cehcked, this is a forum where we state our experiences, both positive and somethimes negative.
Don't get me started on how Indians and Pakistanis look down upon others.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
lol there was no misunderstanding. The mutawwis in the Holy Mosques are rude and batameez with non--arabs.
And people who go to hajj are non-badtameez?
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Don't get me started on how Indians and Pakistanis look down upon others.
No doubt there is room for improvement in every community. That does not mean one should not discuss bias elsewhere. OP is making some valid observations, IMO.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
No doubt there is room for improvement in every community. That does not mean one should not discuss bias elsewhere.** OP is making some valid observations**, IMO.
So am I.
taali dono haath se bajti hai...if all the people (especially women) who went for hajj were so well-mannered there wouldn't be any need for muttawis.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^ Ab aap moderator hain, humein kbool karna hee padega :)
Cheers!
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Anyway, some relatives of mine went to hajj last year and they told us that there are so many South Asians in Makkah and Madina (especially Madina) who are running shops and small businesses and they have become much more inegrated in the society....and you'd see plenty of Saudis who can actually speak Urdu because of them being in the area.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
You could be the sweetest kindest little doormat but those women are gonna treat you like filth. 
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
lol…
Btw, we have similar muttawis in Iran too…and not to mention the desi aunties in local mosques staring at you with anger in their eyes for showing your hairline.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
hareem - there are lots of south asians in working class jobs and the restaurants and shops are there to cater to them. contrary to popular belief, not all Saudi's are wealthy and the lower classes have no reason to have these superiority issues, so they get along with other cultures fine.
Take one example, my father has a lot of dealings with the embassy. Even there normal routine is extremely mediterranean - short working hours, lack of organisation, taking ages to do anything. It's difficult enough to get them to do anything anyway, if you're Pakistani (for example) then you can forget it. So my father has his Saudi contacts and when he needs to get something done, he has to ask them for help.
When I went for umrah, I had never heard anything like what is being said in this thread. I thought it was going to be beautiful and perfect. But some of the stuff that happened there made my heart feel heavy because it was like 'how can these things be happening here?'. You can have all the patience in the world but it doesn't stop the negative stuff affecting you.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Hareem, I do not mind personal hardships that come with the journey of hajj. Those I take as a gift for which I will be rewarded for 1 day, iA. By the way, we are discussing the actual journey of Hajj in the religion section of this forum.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
hareem - there are lots of south asians in working class jobs and the restaurants and shops are there to cater to them. contrary to popular belief, not all Saudi's are wealthy and the lower classes have no reason to have these superiority issues, so they get along with other cultures fine.
Take one example, my father has a lot of dealings with the embassy. Even there normal routine is extremely mediterranean - short working hours, lack of organisation, taking ages to do anything. It's difficult enough to get them to do anything anyway, if you're Pakistani (for example) then you can forget it. So my father has his Saudi contacts and when he needs to get something done, he has to ask them for help.
When I went for umrah, I had never heard anything like what is being said in this thread. I thought it was going to be beautiful and perfect. But some of the stuff that happened there made my heart feel heavy because it was like 'how can these things be happening here?'. You can have all the patience in the world but it doesn't stop the negative stuff affecting you.
It only reflects the general state of us muslims as an ummah and it's going to be the same everywhere (or may be worse) regardless of the geographical location or the holy sites.
A very good friend of mine, who is Egyptian, was telling me the other day about her husband's (also Egyptian) experiences at Hajj this year. While at the Masjid Nabawi, he was apparently praying too near the Prophet's (SWAS) Roza Mubarak, or got too near or something and was very rudely admonished and almost shoved away by the mutaween. From what I heard from others as well, it just kind of goes with the territory, regardless of nationality.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Well that's the point, the holy sites should be the places where there should be compassion and understanding.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
This Canadian dude was beaten and arrested by the Police. Got released when Canadian embassy and media got involved; http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111031/canadian-imam-beaten-saudi-arabia-111031/
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
So we're not talking about the racism issue anymore? It's the religious zealousness now?
I'd suggest anyone who's planning to visit should expect the worst. lol
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Yeh, you should be prepared for anything because then you won't be shocked/angered and have your mind taken off your purpose.
And another thing, virtually everyone I know who has been for Hajj (and we have people going every year) has had belongings stolen.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Wow, this certain member who is so keen on defending the saudis would be so up in arms over rights and freedom of speech if such a thing were to happen in the UK or US etc. Some people really need to take off their rose colored glasses and see things for what they are; this is further proof of why things are in pakistan like they way they are.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
okkkk…relax everyone…I dont want any bitterness…
Look I wanted to share some of my not so good experiences because I admit there are things that I dont understand in terms of management, and plus I want to understand why such things happen… you guys have given me constructive arguments so thanks for that 
Alhamdulillah guys this is a pilgrimage we are talking about, I had good experiences too - it was an honour for me to be invited to Allah swt house, so naturally that was the best part…
But I found that if you had money then your stay is comfortable in terms of getting a hotel, food etc … otherwise its a bit of a struggle…but then again these people will get more hasanat for their struggle…
Again I feel those who do ‘dismiss’ such incidences have not experienced such things and hopefully wont have to…
Again (I sound like a broken record…lol) I want to share these things to remind people…do not forget your manners…be extra kind and extra patient during your pilgrimage…and remember whether your a Pakistani or an arab does not matter to Allah swt…its your amal that matter to him…
If I have offended anyone..I apologise that is not my intention…
Peace out 