Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^ Sorry - maybe I misunderstood. Will delete my entry.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I would have told the lady I was white, and watched her face turn in confusion.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
You know what , I feel such things, like pushing each other, not bothered about your pain, not feeling that you are one of them etc, mostly happens in ladies section. be it an ordinary mosque or Prophet Mohammed's PBUH mosque. I have hardly heard men complaning about other men when they are praying ba-jamaat. that is because they are more oragnaized and they dont mind petty things, may be they have more patience? they will even wait for each other, and let the first one go and take his shoes after prayers. But at the same time you will see ladies mostly arguing in the shoes area. Coz every woman wants to get her shoes on before anyone else. I dont know why they do it, seriously. I see it as a main reason why Allah didnt make ba-jammat prayer compulsory for ladies.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Ok so here's another incident at Mecca...
During the tawaf around the Kabaa, your required to pause at the black stone and kiss it, if you are not able to then you just pause and gesture towards it.
Because I was there for Umrah, it was no were near as crowded as it would be for Hajj, so I decided I wanted to try and get close to the black stone and kiss it during the last round of my tawaf.
Ok so I'm waiting for others to move and I tried to squirm my way through the crowd, it was soo crowded and no one was willing to budge. I was there for half an hour and still I couldn't seem to make my way through.
I was probably a metre and half away from the stone but still there was no organisation and people were so single-minded, when they got close to the stone, they would take their time - which I thought was not right considering there were so many people waiting for their turn.
Chalo - I thought people came from so far they wanted to make the most of it and make lots of dua.
What was a problem was the fact that when you were finished kissing the black stone - making your way out was impossible, people would not make way for others to leave fearing their place 'in line' would be taken.
This put people especially women in a very compromising position considering men and women were both close (there was no partition for men and women to take their turn kissing the black stone - men would make their way through the left side and women through the right).
This one poor lady was trying to make her way out - she puts her hand out asking for anyone to help her get out because she was stuck but people just ignored her. When she did eventually make her way out her hijab was half way off her head and she was puffed out.
I thought this was just so wrong...
The men being more stronger mainly took more time, having a good feel of the stone and kissing it. I don't think many of the women got that chance - myself included - I got as far as creeping through the side and just being able to touch it. I contemplated getting closer to kiss it considering I was so close - but then I thought of that lady's dilemma and thought it'd be better to leave it at that.
Im not saying that I know of better way this could be handled - but surely being mindful of how we must treat each other is just as important as ibadat...
We need to remember that we only kiss the black stone because the prophet (SAW) kissed it. It does not have some special qualities...I know one can get carried away because of the significance it has but we need to remember the reasons for each action during the pilgrimage...
Here's a hadith that talks about this...
Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you."
(Bukhari Hadith 1494)
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
If you don’t have the patience and and heart to forget and forgive then don’t go to hajj/umra/
I’m sick of people coming back from hajj/umra and complaining about this and that. 
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
No one has the right to tell anyone whether or not they can go to umrah/hajj…
Im trying to highlight that everyone needs to be very mindful of how we treat one another when we go for umrah/hajj..people seem to forget that…
Patience is something that will be always tested whether your in KSA or anywhere else, its about your manners…
If your sick of people talking about this then its best you read something more to your liking…
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I've met some pilgrims from enlightened countries right outside the Prophet's mosque who will not even allow you to sit at their table to eat if you are trumped for space and there's a long walk back to your hotel.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
aap log tou yahan bhi garma garmi kar rahe ho:chupki:
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
No one has the right to tell anyone whether or not they can go to umrah/hajj... Im trying to highlight that everyone needs to be very mindful of how we treat one another when we go for umrah/hajj..people seem to forget that... Patience is something that will be always tested whether your in KSA or anywhere else, its about your manners...
If your sick of people talking about this then its best you read something more to your liking...
I think when we are on hajj/umra we should ignore what's "injustices" are happening to us and concentrate on our worship.
What happened to you is not even a big issue to be honest, however, talking about how people waste food and throw rubbish in the mosque are some issues worth discussing.
Btw, do you have any positive thing to share about umra/hajj to encourage people like me for visiting haram-shareef?
Btw, no hard feelings. I just think it's not a big deal.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
Enlighted countries? 
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
well it is mostly that we all go there with a pre set of mind. Sometimes we have what we look for and sometimes we dont. bad administration, bad management, bad behaviours can be anywhere rather they are everywhere. We go there as guests, rather not guests even, we go there to fulfill our spiritual needs as well as our religious obligation (Hajj) so whether the experience was good or bad, it doesnt sound nice we ruin our own blessedness by showing our dissatisfaction and disappointment. Criticism and constructive one is good, but some places or things we exempt, because of their spiritual importance for us and our emotional attachment with them. FOr a lover, a beloved is always above all, beyond worldly comparisons standards. Now ofcourse this is my personal opinion, you need not agree with them and go on with the feeling you brought back from there and I hope KSA government reads this thread and takes suitable measures to meet the grievances of the zaereen.
We the people can feel bad seeing such things there and later hearing about all this in this way but in anyway, its not our country that we can take the things in our hands and improve the situation. We cant even protest and stop our visits there as far as our demands are not fulfilled. Because we will still be driven emotionally, spiritually and religiously because its Baitullah and ROza Mubarak there, regardless of the govt being saudi or Turkish or whatever.
I personally however feel thankful to the modern mode of transport that now reaching there is very very comfortable and easy. Think of those who used to travel for months on camels and whatnot for days and night with all the hazards and arduous modes of journey. Its Allah's grace that He has made it much easier for us not only in the way of transportation but also by the means of affordability. If not all, many of us Alhamdolillah could afford and thats why we now come here and relate our good or bad experiences. There are a lot many who died waiting for the chance and many other who only yearn.
Alhamdolillah.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I think when we are on hajj/umra we should ignore what's "injustices" are happening to us and concentrate on our worship.
Islam encourages us to fight injustice doesn't it? And you're saying we should just ignore it?!
Was it not the Prophet (SAW) himself that took upon himself to counter the injustices committed against the weak and the oppressed?
And I'm pretty sure our religion encourages us to do the same in any form that we can.
Surely the racism that goes on around the world, including Saudi Arabia, counts as injustice...
P.S. My comment is aimed at the people who seem to think we should just accept such behaviour.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
Ok so here's another incident at Mecca...
During the tawaf around the Kabaa, your required to pause at the black stone and kiss it, if you are not able to then you just pause and gesture towards it.
Because I was there for Umrah, it was no were near as crowded as it would be for Hajj, so I decided I wanted to try and get close to the black stone and kiss it during the last round of my tawaf.
Ok so I'm waiting for others to move and I tried to squirm my way through the crowd, it was soo crowded and no one was willing to budge. I was there for half an hour and still I couldn't seem to make my way through.
I was probably a metre and half away from the stone but still there was no organisation and people were so single-minded, when they got close to the stone, they would take their time - which I thought was not right considering there were so many people waiting for their turn.
Chalo - I thought people came from so far they wanted to make the most of it and make lots of dua.
What was a problem was the fact that when you were finished kissing the black stone - making your way out was impossible, people would not make way for others to leave fearing their place 'in line' would be taken.
This put people especially women in a very compromising position considering men and women were both close (there was no partition for men and women to take their turn kissing the black stone - men would make their way through the left side and women through the right). This one poor lady was trying to make her way out - she puts her hand out asking for anyone to help her get out because she was stuck but people just ignored her. When she did eventually make her way out her hijab was half way off her head and she was puffed out. I thought this was just so wrong...
The men being more stronger mainly took more time, having a good feel of the stone and kissing it. I don't think many of the women got that chance - myself included - I got as far as creeping through the side and just being able to touch it. I contemplated getting closer to kiss it considering I was so close - but then I thought of that lady's dilemma and thought it'd be better to leave it at that.
Im not saying that I know of better way this could be handled - but surely being mindful of how we must treat each other is just as important as ibadat...
We need to remember that we only kiss the black stone because the prophet (SAW) kissed it. It does not have some special qualities...I know one can get carried away because of the significance it has but we need to remember the reasons for each action during the pilgrimage...
Here's a hadith that talks about this...
Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Bukhari Hadith 1494)
Unfortunately, this tyoe of behavior is all too common - I have had a similar experience visiting temples. People try to maximize their time at the expense of others, they are very incosiderate. And the bigger they are, the more they try to ensure they get more time with darshan.
So I can understand your sentimemnts - entirely human. Those who go to worsip need to be more sensitive to being fair to others' rights.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
oh getting few dhakkay here and there doesn't count as an injustice in my book.
When there were less facilities in Makkha there was more hospitality in people.....besides, just imagine Indians or Pakistanis or Bangladeshis hosting such event, it'd be a total disaster.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
There we go; relativity.
She did not just experience ‘some dhakkay here and there’ but blatant segregation based on nationality.
Accommodation at the holy sites is organised based on your port of arrival and fair enough, that makes sense to me.
But once you’re performing all the rites and other worship, any kind of division should go out the window.
Some would consider racism a violation of what the holy lands and the message of Islam stand for. But I guess that’s just me!
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^Her sis was arguing with them too okay (those women were probably elderly or at least older than her). There's a reason why we are prohibited from fighting in ihram.
I think there should be some sort of law for everyone to take classes on mannerism before entering haram.
Oh and learning basic Arabic before going to hajj won't do a harm either, at least you'd be able to communicate with the authorities if you are worried about being told to wait for extra 15 minutes.
We are talking about a way to deal with such "injustice" and "oppression"? Well, I just told you that.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
^Her sis was arguing with them too okay (those women were probably elderly or at least older than her). There's a reason why we are prohibited from fighting in ihram.
I think there should be some sort of law for everyone to take classes on mannerism before entering haram.
Oh and learning basic Arabic before going to hajj won't do a harm either, at least you'd be able to communicate with the authorities if you are worried about being told to wait for extra 15 minutes.
I am not commenting on individual behaviour but commenting on the unmissable racism in the holy lands.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA…
I strongly believe there was a big misunderstanding between the muttawi and the OP probably due to the language barrier.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I just remembered one thing...
I remember how we were lining up and waiting for the women to be let in....and they open the gates....and we hear this weird sound...it sounded like a war-cry....we realised it was the ladies yelling and running to be the first to get to the prophets (SAW) grave...me and my sister looked at each other and cracked up laughing ....lol...it was hilarious...
If you've ever seen people line for post Xmas sales outside Myer or David Jones and then run inside eager to get cheap products...thats what it was like...
Lol sorry for the unworthy analogy and yeah...
That was very insensitive of you... this analogy or whatever.
Re: My thoughts on a recent trip to KSA...
I strongly believe there was a big misunderstanding between the muttawi and the OP probably due to the language barrier.
lol there was no misunderstanding. The mutawwis in the Holy Mosques are rude and batameez with non--arabs.