My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Lifestyle Relationships
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Salam guys I have a dilemma that I’m trying to deal with and need your opinion. My younger sister recently had her nikkah done a few weeks back, however the rukhsati was planned to take place early on next year. The nikkah was basically done in place of an engagement as we wanted it to be so they can go out in public as they wanted without people questioning their relationship. It was explained that my sister will stay at our place and can go out with him whenever she likes just come back in the night until the rukhsati.

Nikkah was done and everything went well, they both have been hanging out a lot. However starting last week, my brother in law had his family over for his brothers wedding and my sister wanted to go spend the weekend at this house to help out. My parents were opposed to that, as they said yes you can go and spend the day at his place but make sure you come back at night time. However she refused and went and spent the weekend at his place anyways, when she came back we questioned her whether she stayed with him in his room etc, yet she got angry and was like, this is my husband now, who cares what I do with him, "why is that even a question? I wanted to spend the weekend with his family.” She doesn’t understand how big of a deal this is to my parents culturally. She got into a huge argument and now is really mad and doesn’t understand why she can’t spend the weekend at his place. I don’t know if she is spending the night with him in his room or not, but his parents are also getting mad at my parents that it is okay if she comes and spends the weekend at their house and they don’t see anything wrong in it. When I ask her if she is spending the night with him she doesn’t think its my business and refuses to answer.

My parents are devastated because yes they are married now so technically she can do whatever she wanted, but my parents really wanted to do a rukhsati with all the preparations: mehndi, etc which can only happen on a virgin bride, but now they feel that all went out the window.

My sister and my brother in law just don’t understand why this is wrong of her spending the weekend at their house, because they are saying they’re not spending the weekend at a hotel or anything. I really don’t know if they are consummating their marriage, but is it still wrong anyways?

I see right in both sides but I don’t know what to tell either of them my parents or my sister who is right as my sister is technically married….

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

I was just having this debate with a group of girlfriends recently lol. In my opinion, this whole concept of a nikkah in place of engagement just for the sake of "halal dating" is completely and utterly ridiculous. It totally belittles the sanctitiy of a nikkah, which is all that matters. Your sister is a married women and should be living under the same roof as her husband 24/7 period.

When my mil brought up this scenario at the time of my wedding (just doing a nikkah only and waiting a year for ruhksati) my mother said NO WAY! She knew there would be no way she could stop us from going out or continue to impose a curfew on a married couple...it makes no sense lol.

I'm sorry to say, but the fault lies with your parents for agreeing to this kooky arrangement to begin with.

I'm not trying to be mean here at all or poke fun, but what are you guys going to do if you find out your sister is pregnant before "ruhksati"?

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Your sister is married. There is no point in holding her back anymore.

What does a virgin bride have to do with mehndi and rukhsati?

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Re: My Sister’s Nikkah Dilemma

More importantly, they are already acting like a maried couple (minus the gol rotis and laundry lol) does a mehndi and baraat function even matter? Or is it the functions that make a marriage valid? :chai:

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

They can still have carnal relations during they DAY.
This thread did gave me a well deserved kek. Autism really does work in mysterious ways.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Your sister is a married woman and actually you and your parents have no right to ask her such personal questions. The intimacy between husband and wife is private and the Prophet pbuh forbade anyone asking or discussing such private matters.
As for "only a virgin bride can do mehndi" what kind of silly superstition is this? What about women who were divorced and got married again??? They have mehndis too.
You can still have your functions, what's the problem here exactly?
Islamically you should not be asking your sister such private questions.
They are both adults. No point in treating them like children.

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I'm on the fence abt the nikkah-rukhsati thing. On the one hand it's convenient and keeps young Muslim kids from doing stupid things when dating etc. It's not like it's un-Islamic either.

But then stuff like this pisses me off. My MIL is a great woman.. but she was of the same mindset... "dont spend time together, ur not married yet". My own parents never protested if i went out with my husband (when we had our nikkah done) cos obvs we were married. It was annoying.

Culture shouldn't take precedence over religion.. but that's all that seems to matter to Pakistanis. U and ur family have no right to ask ur sister what she does.. frankly, it's kind of disgusting. She's a married woman, she's allowed to do whatever she wants.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

From an Islamic viewpoint, engagement has no value. Parents get their kids nikahfied these days so that they can go out without worrying about 'log kya kahain gay'. So yes technically you are married, but culturally people dont consider you married until there has been a mehndi, shadi, rukhsati, and walima. I dont think it would kill anyone to have some patience and wait till their rukhsati to consummate their marriage.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Nikah nikah hota hay, rukhsati ho ya na ho. Besides rukhsati has no legal value. A loud fancy party is all it really is.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

And that's precisely the problem with our culture we've dumbed down a nikkah to count only for a pseudo engagement while all of these faaltu rasmay (except the walima which is sunnat) are considered the "marriage".

Unless there is an international immigration issue involved, there is no valid reason for a nikkah only with no ruhksati. If you're satisfied enough to legally and Islamically marry someone, what's the point of delaying living together? Let me guess..kapray banaanay ke liye time chaiyay lol.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

You are absolutely right, but dont you think people will raise fingers if a girl gets pregnant before her rukhsati?

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Of course they will, that is why I am saying that it is completely ridiculous to use a nikkah as "halal dating", while planning a "wedding" months and months down the line. How can any parent tell their married son/daughter "no, you can't meet your spouse" and how can anyone expect a married couple to not to want to be intimate?

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Thats the problem you know. Organizing a wedding takes time (for whatever reasons). A simple baat pakki isnt enough for most people. Engagement has no legal value. Banda keray tou kya keray =p

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Re: My Sister’s Nikkah Dilemma

Organizing a wedding does not take time. It all boils down to priorities. Is the marriage more important or the party? There is a big difference in becoming a wife vs being a bride.

Both my niece and my eldest sister got married this summer and both of their weddings were planned and executed in 2 months and were no less then exquisite. Maybe if people stopped obsessing about ridiculously expensive designer dresses and inviting 400+ people while holding no less then 5-6 OTT functions, they wouldn’t need so much time :blush:

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Re: My Sister’s Nikkah Dilemma

Agree with you. A guy I know refused to have any wedding function, just got nikkah done, and took the bride home. No fanfare, no drama.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

LMAO!

It's all in people's heads that shadi tiyaari takes time. If you include hunting for a hall, my wedding preps took a total of 3 weeks and 3 days. And it was in no means a shabby affair (sorry for tooting my own horn). My cousin's wedding preps finished in 2 months, that too barely 2 months

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

Coming to the topic at hand, nikah as an engagement needs to end, unless there is a real need for it, ie immigration issues. Nikah is a sacred thing. Once a man and woman get married, Islamically, socially and legally they have rights and responsibilities over each other that we as a culture deny them. How wrong is it to deny something to two people that Allah Himself has decreed allowable and permissible? (I'm including financial as well as bedroom rights in this). You want to wait for shadi tiyarian, or need time to book an elaborate honeymoon, or need enough time to let your billion guests know that shadi is about to happen, get the kids engaged. Nothing wrong with it. If you're that worried about if the kids are going to do it with each other, send a chaperone with them to keep an eye. Otherwise if they're adults then they would have the common sense to stay within their limits.

As for OP, I am assuming you guys are in Pakistan? If so, sorry to say your sister acted idiotically and immaturely. Knowing full well the culture she lives in, she should not have stayed overnight at her in laws. And you guys SHOULD assume she slept with her MIL, unless your family think her ILs are so baigharat they themselves allowed the couple to sleep on the same bed, before a rukhsati, even though the couple has every right to do so. Even then, it's kinda presumptuous for your family to think that she would have ignored all the training your sister got from her family and just...done it. If they were so scared of something like this happening, why get them nikahfied in the first place? I think someone already said, they don't need to wait for the night and to be in one house to do it. There is a lot of unnecessary drama happening right now, which could have simply be avoided if nikah wasn't treated like a silly thing. But what is done now is done. Mitti pao on everything.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

W/Salaam!

I don't think anyone should be asking your sister or brother in law if they're having intimate relations. That's their right and privacy after nikkah. All you can do now is ask kindly hint to her it would be appropriate not being preggo till after Walima.

I kind of think its silly she's fighting her family for her in laws...once she's fully married she'll be complaining about them, especially if she has to live with them. Her going over and spending nights so easily tells them she is more than willing. Not a smart move on her part.

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Re: My Sister's Nikkah Dilemma

1) Stop using the word "technically." It sounds strange to me because it implies that your sister's marriage is less than official and that only the man-made Desi customs (mehndi/rukhsati) can make her marriage valid and you know that's not true. There is no "technically".....the reality is that your sister IS a full-fledged married woman.

2) It would have been better if your sister had waited and I say this for 2 reasons. And those reasons have nothing to do with the rules that dictate Desi wedding traditions (specifically the need to be a virgin for mehndi and what not). The first reason is that people wag their tongues; they gossip and it just takes only one person to create unnecessary drama. The second reason is that the human mind can be an evil thing. It's within human nature to judge a person differently than we did before. The same in-laws who are okay with DIL spending the night before shadi can possibly have a change of opinion later on and judge her for being lax in character. Yes, it's wrong and messed up and whatever else you wanna call it...but unfortunately things like this happen. When in-laws want to end a relationship, then can look for any bongi reason to justify it. And since we are generally a people for whom culture has more influence than religion does, then it may be better to be cautious about these things.

3) Let's assume for a second that your sister did consummate her marriage. First of all she hasn't committed a gunnah. Secondly you cannot change it, you cannot undo the consummation. It is over and done with. Jo hua so hua. So what do you and your parents gain from interrogating her about how she spent the night at her in-laws? For a moment, I want you to place yourself in your sister's shoes. How would you feel if your sibling or parents asked you what you did with your husband? How would you fell if your sibling or parent demanded that you disclose such personal details? I bet you'd feel embarrassed and annoyed. And I bet that's how your sister feels as well.

You need to stop asking her how she spent the night. It's over and done with. Stop asking her which room she slept it, what time she went to bed, whether or not her and husband remained unsupervised in the house, what kinds of things they both said and did. Please stop asking her. You will gain nothing.

3) And if you or your parents have used words such as "baysharam" "bayhayaa" or "bayghairat" for her....please stop. Because you will only make her more angry. She's going to get married soon and will leave the house. Do not make the last few weeks or months that you have left to spend with you full of resentment and bad memories. So if there is any scolding or cold shoulder or negative body language...it needs to stop because it's not helping.

Instead try to explain to her gently why you are concerned. Pyaar se samjhaao usay and request that (for her own safety) that she hold off on certain things until after the shadi. Maybe if you guys change your approach, she'll compromise.

Also, her in-laws are already mad at your parents. I've seen marriages come to an end over the dumbest arguments. I think it's better if your parents stop arguing/debating this topic with her in-laws because it may sour relations between your family and them.

4) Given your sister's response to your parents and her inability to understand the risks makes me think that maybe you guys live outside of Pakistan, but I may be wrong. This may not be what you wanna hear....but unfortunately not every Desi girl these days is a "virgin" before she even has her nikkah done....and these girls still go on to have their mehndi and maayo and rukhsati celebrations. And if your sister at least waited until AFTER her nikkah to be physically intimate with her husband, aaj kal k zamanay main yeh bahut bari baat hai. That said, stop thinking too much about the traditions because frankly speaking wagging tongues and shaitani waswasay are a far more serious issue than the traditions.

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Re: My Sister’s Nikkah Dilemma

Since you’re asking, I’d say the shari’ ruksati is done. This happens when the husband and wife spend enough time in seclusion with each other as it would take to consummate the marriage without a physical or moral barrier.

:rotfl:

Even if they spent the night at a hotel, there still wouldn’t be anything wrong with it.

Sorry, I don’t see where your parents are right in this. The only other thing I’d look at is that if the wife wanted to receive the mehr (or some portion thereof) before coming to live with the husband and that was refused. But this doesn’t seem to be the case, so I see nothing wrong in what they’ve done.