My secret belief

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I thought 'aap pehle se bahot pareshaan hain', yet you come on entering this thread, which in your eyes is 'nonsense' and 'bogus'. If you really were that pareshan you should be spending your energy trying to deal with your pareshani instead of reading 'nonsense' and 'bogus' threads... and even demanding answers to some questions posed in that thread.

~*~ Time Pass June 2012 ~*~
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I do consider your belief (which is more like an assumption based on your own ideas) bogus and idiotic and I also believe that it’s a ripoff of some comical series, and if you think I’m wrong then try to prove me wrong by giving the facts not your made up stories.
If you can answer AQ’s post with facts then I’ll present my questions those are similar to AQ’s questions.

This is off topic.

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Dear Hareem01

You are not making this new task for me very easy. I agree with you ... how much tolerance should be spared for those people who you feel are compromising your religion? These things were probably once considered blasphemous.

I am drawn to your sincerity but I am hesitant to do anything. Code_Red is differentiating his beliefs from yours, he is not forcing you to accept nor is he at this stage arguing that his position is better and aught to be adopted by all Muslims. Rather he is providing his view ... he has provided it for it to be interesting and may be he wants us to dismantle it, so we can achieve a better understanding of Islam. So we need to bear with him.

Let's refute with supporting material ... you may feel that it is too absurd to even consider that.

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Re: My secret belief

hehe

Introduction... New here
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Psyah,

For a second, do you really think Codey believes in all these theories. I am trying to see what he wants to say between the lines. Grounded or not change is inevitable. It might be subtle or it maybe sudden. But it will happen, history has taught us that. Nothing remains same forever, Nothing.

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^ Just because you dont want to understand some concept , or it is beyond your comprehension at a given point in time then it does not automatically make them void :slight_smile:

I have given enough arguments , and citation from scripture.And i will provide more in future inshallah I put them for critical examination, but i am disappointed that no one bother;s to examine them

If you bother to open your eyes and read my posts then you will see that i am answering quetions which are raised by member regarding my belief.

You, on the other hand are continuously causing distraction by throwing deregatory remarks and insults. Which is totally un-acceptable behaviour

I can only have civilized arguments with gentlemen. I can not convice tantrum vaging angry woman.

Your posts should be removed according to rules of this forum as they are causing offense
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/213622-rules-religion-forum.html

I will answer AQ post shortly as he raised very valid points.
It takes few seconds and hardly any intelligent quotient to post copy-paste reply or post full of mockery. But one needs time to compile a to-the-point reply.

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Peace Code_Red

If you feel anyones post should be removed then you can voice that conern in feedback. I will not remove Hareem01’s posts, but if the other moderators feel it necessary then I will respect their wishes. :slight_smile: Personally I believe when you were moderator you have tolerated a lot worse coming from others. I urge that there are some parts of the posts that are relevant and others are not.

I am absorbing what you have written but I want more clarification so before I enter with a rebuttal/agreement I need more elaboration else I might make an accusation that you could work around.

I shall use references and ask you how you would interpret them in the light of what you have provided. So my post shall follow in response to your immediate concerns about why others have not examined your ideas yet.

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Believe me I am open minded towards new concepts and ideas. But for the time being I am not convinced yet that you really mean what you are saying. Till then. :)

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Re: My secret belief

hmmm code red sir is ur post about Esa (as) not a lil like lets say if i were to meet u today n obviously i wouldnt know about ur past n suppose ur very well known for things u may have done in the past, does this then mean u were also beamed back to ur native planet n getting some vital knowledge about things n then beamed back to earth to conduct ur good deeds wich u learned while over there?:hmmm:
apart from this point of view do carry on, i am very much amused by this thread

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First of all sorry for delayed response :flower1:

You have yourself answered your question breifly.

However, you have not provided reference to either of the citation. Please provide reference of quranic ayat and hadees, as i spent quite some time trying to verify them. thanks

Here let me give you the reference to strengthen your pov

This verse of holy quran is very important, as it tells what the hadees is telling that there are simmilar worlds out there where Allah sends quidance in similar ways, i.e through prophets , angels , noble men etc.

It is very much possible to for a civilization to excel in wisdom and knowledge when they are living in a different envirnment, even physical limitation are same.

For example there are two identical twin , one is adopted by an educated family and they encourage him to study and gett best education , he becomes a top class engineer and starts building fantastic engineering marvel. The other child remains with poor parents and go to hardware shop with his father.

Although , both had almost same physical and mental capacities but one attained higher level of wisdom and knowledge and the art to apply them when and where required, but other remained a commoner. For an onlooker these two individual belonged to different world, alegorically

You are raising the objection as if Hazrat Suleman was the first prophet who was sent to this world and he actually did not belong here :slight_smile:

Let me remind you that According to your belief and belief of 3 billion people living on planet earth, Prophet Adam, the first prophet of Allah was not a native of this world !

Allah created Adam and he lived in heaven for unknown time and then he was sent to earth.
Do we agree that heaven <> earth ( heaven and earth are two different entities according to scriptures and your belief)

So this means earth was an adopted home for prophet adam as he was sent here by Allah from somewhere else.

^ The same thing i am saying about prophet Suleman :slight_smile:

Certainly, I have no doubt that prophet dawood had God’s gifts, there is very real chance that what you are saying is true too !

Surely they both were magnificent people

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Its okey. I understand. I have my limitations too, may be i am not able to explain it as you would have liked :slight_smile:

I think, i did not get the question properly. It is possible, but also there are other posibilities i.e acquired knowledge and gift of God. Intuition etc

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I am not advocating any action, since it is personal.

For the record, I did not tolerate mockery or insult of any faith, religion, religious personalities or disposition. Because this is a forum which invites people from wide range of spectrum. And we promote debate in respectful environments

I was Just making it clear what is wrong.

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I didn't know that your* aqeedah* is different to us Muslims and I thought you were only mocking and ridiculing the ayahs of Qur'an.

But now seeing that you are very serious about this thread and your beliefs (whatever it is called).
I'm sorry about not believing that you were serious about everything you wrote.

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Re: My secret belief

All the mumbo jumbo in such a delayed reply did not prove the proposed theory at all…

as for Adam (AS), yaar code red, zaraa khud say woh waali aayat likh dau since you are so good in finding reference, where Allah had said Angels that He was going to create “Khalifa-tul-Ard”

shaabaash!

I will be back later with detailed reply to each of your points raised… theek? :hugz:…!

Tasveer
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:salam:

I was hesitating to jump in here but well. Code sahab, nothing wrong with the imagination running wild but there is plenty of wrong done went logical and proper checks are not put on it.

I just wanted to ask you to research the Quran a little more based on this post of yours. If you would, you’ll find the answer, which you have substituted your fantastical assumption for. Why was Ibrahim AS afraid of them? Not because they looked like aliens, infact they did not, they were angels disguised in human form and his suspicion about them as strangers did not bother him util they refused his hospitality, not because they were dressed in alien suits. You should read Surah Hud. I’ll post the relevant verses here that refute your assumption with clear scriptural evidence:

11:69 There came Our messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, “Peace!” He answered, “Peace!” and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf.
11:70 But when he saw their hands went not towards the (meal), he felt some mistrust of them, and conceived a fear of them. They said: “Fear not: We have been sent against the people of Lut.”
11:71 And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob.
11:72 She said: “Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!”
11:73 They said: “Dost thou wonder at Allah’s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!”
11:74 When fear had passed from (the mind of) Abraham and the glad tidings had reached him, he began to plead with us for Lut’s people.
11:75 For Abraham was, without doubt, forbearing (of faults), compassionate, and given to look to Allah.

If you read the Arabic for verse 69, they are refered to as Rusuluna, which is for messengers of Allah SWT. If you read, only after they refused Ibrahim AS hospitality did he AS become apprehensive. Now why on earth would he be offering food to aliens? Its spelled in very straight and simple terms when he became apprehensive.

Its important to cross check your wild imaginative theories with teh Quran and Inshallah! you will find the rebuttals on your own.

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Re: My secret belief

Ok guys, we don't need to question people's beliefs if they wish to question or discuss a certain topic or issue with a different perspective. We can share our opinions in a decent, respectful, and mature manner without personalizing the discussion. Thank you!

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Re: My secret belief

^
On the very note, Lusi and I are aliens because our and the whole humanity’s father Adam (AS) was not from this world.

****Source]

PS: I do not understand where exactly we are questioning Code_red’s beliefs… On the contrary, we are rebuttling his arguments where he is actually the one who is questioning the beliefs of all of us. We are just defending our position.

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I certainly did not and can not think of mocking ayaat of holy quran.

Even i did ( which you wrongly assumed ) then it was your duty to work out a response and correct me there and then. I guess this topic is new and there is no ‘ready made’ rebutals available out there. :slight_smile:

I am just telling you the stuff written in holy scripture and but no one notice them or examine them carefully. I am not claiming that my understanding is entirely correct, thats why i am putting forward my pov and asking for critical esamination by learned memebers here :flower1:

Theek :slight_smile: but find your own reference for yourself.

^ That depend on what you all believe. If you believe in scriptures then this is your adopted planet. Otherwise if you believe in darwain’s evolution then you are evloved from monkey and certainly you are a native of this planet :slight_smile:

Let me jott it down for simplicity :

**1. There are other worlds just like earth , and other creatures just like human **( I think we all agree)

**2. Allah sent (few) prophets to earth from other worlds **( I believe , you dont )

3. Allah sent messengers ( for specific tasks ) to earth from other worlds ( i believe , you dont )

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:wsalam:

Thankyou for examining my post, and putting forward you analysis :rose:
I read the passage and found it in line with the passage i quoted although a bit more detailed. Actually i found the same tale atleast 2 more places in holy quran :slight_smile:

Although, avoidence from hospitality does not prove them angels, those people from other worlds are can also decline the offer due to obvious reasons. You dont eat food from other planet :slight_smile:

But that is not the main point. I have done a small research and noticed that in all 4 places in holy quran these people are not once reffered as **"Malaika " (**angels ) they are reffered as ‘Rusul’ ( those who were sent)

If you read both chapter ( the one you quoted and the one i quote ) there is mention of " Malaika" ( the word resserved for angels) at various places

check these verses
11-12
11-31
Check the word used for angels (Malak), and now reach at verse 69 onward 83 these people are refered as rusul Rusuluna, arsalna, as you pointed out too

The other sura which i quoted in my post also contains reference to angels and these people by different words

15-7
15-8
15-28-30

^ here angels are called Malaika.

but from verse 50 onwards the word for these people change back to rusul

Please also notice Prophet lut’s apprehension and plea for saving his guest form his evil nation. If he knew they were angels then he would have also known that they are made of noor and human cant harm them at all :slight_smile:

Due to this reason i am putting these refferences in front fo you kind people to check them and tell me where i am wrong :slight_smile: I am not a very learned man, and i will gladly accept my fault when and where it will appear :flower1:

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Re: My secret belief

The whole argument is on the word Rasul and translated wrong :hehe:

aray bhai .. Rasul is the one who comes with a message… A messenger… Risalah .. remember the root?:slight_smile:

Malaika who comes with a message from God to deliver it to another messenger among mankind are refered to as Rasul such as Jibrael (AS) …

Rasoolulah:saw2: is refered to as “Rasul” in Quran, so was Jibreal (AS) … abb aap aik aur theory pesh kijiye… :slight_smile:

as for monkeys and darwin’s theory… that’s a stupid presumption… applying your own logic, monkeys were sent from other planet to earth and over the period of time they evolved to humans… they are also not native :hehe: