My secret belief

[hareem01]

hareem01

^I dont see Light Bearer mentioning anywhere that he finds the post 'silly'. For your reference I quote that part of the post directed to codey beneath:

The first part is a (rhetorical) question brought in a respectful way. The second part talks about his interest in codey's post, yet cautions that it is too early for him to draw any conclusions. Pray tell, where it says that LB found the post 'silly' or from where you deduce that?

Now, what I meant with 'such a mindset', is that you a priori label his belief as nonsense without knowing why he thinks this way. It ought to be other way around: first find out why he is thinking this way, and then based on that judge for yourself whether you find it nonsense or not. Actually that is exactly what LB is saying he will do ...

Why coudn't you find any explanation for this?
"at least when it will start making sense"

[NeSCio]

Why coudn't you find any explanation for this? "at least when it will start making sense"

well, if something does not makes sense, does not mean it is nonsense. It can also not make sense to you, because you are not in a situation to grasp the true meaning yet. It is therefore not non-sense, but sense which is currently beyond your wit. And in that case, one should wait and see if additional information can make it sense for you, as LB rightfully does.

[hareem01]

well, if something does not makes sense, does not mean it is nonsense. It can also not make sense to you, because you are not in a situation to grasp the true meaning yet. It is therefore not non-sense, but sense which is currently beyond your wit. And in that case, one should wait and see if additional information can make it sense for you, as LB rightfully does.

nonsese=actions or words that don't make sense
I said the same thing in different words but if you just want to have a go at me then carry on.

[NeSCio]

nonsese=things that don't make sense

so -assuming you are no rocket scientist-, you regard Einstein's general theory of relativity as nonsense? or any other advanced theory in any field that you do not specialize in?

point being, you did not say the same thing in different words, because the above equality does not hold; it should be:

Things that don't make sense = non-sense + things that make sense, but you don't grasp that sense yet

and here lies the difference between your statement and LB's.

[hareem01]

Things that don't make sense = non-sense + things that make sense, but you don't grasp that sense yet

No, because I know code-red's belief is based on his own assumptions and not on Qu'ran or Hadith or even Science.
but you don't grasp that sense yet
That sense is not exist at all because the things are made up by codey and contradict Islamic Scriptures.

aap mera dimagh mat khayen, main pehlay hi buhat parishan hoo mujhay aur parishan na karen.

Lets see if codey can make us understand his belief in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.....but i'm sure he won't be able to.

[hareem01]

Re: My secret belief

I can't believe people have started comparing codey's theories with Einstein's works.

[NeSCio]

Re: My secret belief

^first you request me not to bother you any further, but yet you yourself are necessitating me to ponder replying...

if you don't want to get bothered, you shouldn't post possibly provocative replies ;)

[hareem01]

Re: My secret belief

^:)

[AQ]

@Code_Red

No. It is just the limited abiliity of birdy brains out there to decipher the idea that Allah Almighty has not created the galaxies and billions of stars and solar system just for stupid mankind…

who is denying it :)?

The fact that Allah categorically elaborates how He raises Apostles and Prophets from the people themselves, in itself is an evidence against your theory.

According to your theory, Either:

• Suleman (AS) was not a prophet although Quran calls him a prophet.

OR;

• The Sunnah of Allah mentioned in Quran about the Prophets is wrong (Naa’oozu billah)

Take your pick and see what you are doing in either cases…

@Code_Red

As they read the opening verse of holy quran as ’ Alhamdullilah e Rab’il Aalameen ’ but limit its meaning in their mind to ‘Alhamudlillah e RAB’il Arz’

again no one is denying that… In fact, there is a hadith in Bukhari narrated to Ibn-e-Abbas:razi: to whom Prophet:saw2: mentioned about another world other than this with the creatures similar to humans…

@Code_Red

Who are we to challenge the abilitiy of God in making creature smarter than us, far more advanced and probably more obedient to Allah Almighty than we can ever be ?

Are we challenging that?

The WHOLE point is about the Satanic theory proposed out of proportion and out of the context of Quran. Sure Allah has made and can make creature smarter than us (though He calls humans be the best of his creations -REF: Surah Teeen) … The objection is on declaring Prophet Suleman(AS) be a prophet not from this world. It’s like nations of most prophets asking and wondering why an angel was not sent to them as a Rasool and why a human being like them…

Read up on the people of the time of Suleman (AS) … They were given knowledge of the book and were friend with Jinns… Do we see the same behaviour in this time? Are Jinn normally visible and live among the mankind like they used to?

Read up in Qasas-ul-Anbiya how Syedana Izrael(AS) used to join the darbaar of Suleman (AS) and people could see him and recognize him as Malik ul Maut… Can you do that in these times?

@Code_Red

Frankly, it is redundant in holy quran Allah has mentioned creature outside the realm of this earth.

Indeed… does not help you in your point though…

@Code_Red

I am here to offer some fodder for thought , i.e Ghayaan ka chaara

Are you inspired by some Pandit?

@Code_Red

Did I deny this ? :aq:

I have elaborate view on other prophetic stories , with reference from holy quran. I will share them later, inshallah

If you did not, then, Lo and Behold, you are declaring Dawood (AS) from outside of this world too…

Oh boy, it’s getting interesting… !

[Code_Red]

Re: My secret belief

Ok people, please slow down. I am not online 24/7. Dont be flooding in my thread

I want to answer all of you. please be patient.

Zer01 - thanks buddy, but i dont know the guy you mentioned.

Hareem01 - Thanks for the comments. Your reaction is understandable, as practicing muslim are very repulsive to new ideas, and do not tolerate new beliefs

Please state which part of my belief you find objectionable ?

Please state it clearly, point wise and then i will try to address them

chviky - thanks for advice , but please explain your statement :

Dont waste ur time upon thinking the Scientific Rationalism too much just like the previous era of newtonian physics influences upon ISLAM.

Can you deny that As’haab-e-kahaf experienced time travel >? Is that fiction too ?

Please answer my ^ question. If you dont know where is this quranic story of time travel then please go to chapter 18 and start reading.

and then explain to me that Time travel ( going into future or past ) is possible or not according to your belief ?

more later ..

[AQ]

@Code_Red

Hareem01 - Thanks for the comments. Your reaction is understandable, as practicing muslim are very repulsive to new ideas, and do not tolerate new beliefs

That is right. it’s a new belief even new for Islam itself.

[zer01]

Beh Ismehi Ta’Allah!

All praise is due to Allah, The Lord of the Worlds (Quran 1:2)

There are other verses in the Quran that suggest the existance of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. These are just a few;

“Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgement).” (27:65)

“Among His (God’s) signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them : and He has power to gather them together when He wills.” (42.29)

Few important things to note about the verse 42.29:

1. The word used highlighted is “them”, which suggest that there are living beings in the heaven as well.

2. The word used for living creatures in arabic is “dabata”, which is used for legged animals and humans, which suggest presence of intelligent beings, though they may not be as intelligent as us.

Everything that Allah (swt) has created has a purpose. So it would be a an awful waste of space if humans were the only inhabitants among the hundreds of billions of stars in the infinite expanse of space.

The sixth Holy Imam, Imam Jafar Sadiq has said: Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last amnong them."
-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

When asked if there were other lifeforms on other planet, Imam Jaffar As Sadiq replied “Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe.”

I posted above because I partially agree with your theory. As for the Miracles of Ambiyah mentioned in the Quran. Those were purely by the will of Allah (swt).

Allah is Aadil. He has made humans Ashraf Al Makhlookat. It is against Allah’s Adal tha He sends an inferior living being to guide us.

@Code_Red

Zer01 - thanks buddy, but i dont know the guy you mentioned

Asif ibn al-Birkhia was a companion of Hz. Sulema (as). It is mentioned in Quran that he who teleported the throne of Queen Sheba almost instantaneously. Please reffer to chapter 27 verse 38 to 40. But not because he was a super human or from another planet. It was because he possessed a little knowledge of the book of Allah as mentioned in those verses.

Please also read Tay al-Ard

Following is a quote from a Blog on Magic and Religion:

However, whereas performing miracles in Islam is reserved for a prophet (“Nabi”), some schools of thought within Islam believe in a form of metaphysical training in which the seeker can obtain the power to perform miracle-like events (called “keramat”). This is however not regarded as magic but rather psychic power. During the golden age of Islam, there was an influx of Hermetic and Chaldean thought due to the translation of many texts into Arabic. Magic based on angels, properties of the 99-Names of Allah, verses from the Quran, and the power of the Arabic letters became accepted as an alternative to sorcery between the ninth and thirteenth centuries. One of the most famous books of this era was the Shamsu al-Ma’aref al-Kubra, by Ahmed al-Buni. This book was later banned by orthodox Muslims as heresy, but continues to be read and studied. This kind of magic was called, instead of Siher (Sorcery), Ilm al-Hikmah (Knowledge of the Wise), Ilm Shem Yah (Study of the Divine Name), and Rouhaniat (Spirituality). For example, in Islamic tradition, as well as in Judaism, King Solomon, could communicate with the animal kingdom. That is believed to be God given, a miracle and not regarded magic. But then we read of a mysterious person in the circle of people around Solomon by the name of Asef ben berkhia, who is said to have been able to outperform the angels with his knowledge of the Divine Names. Magical power through Divine blessings (“keramat” e.g.) is therefore attainable by man; it is iktisabi, to put it properly.

[Code_Red]

@NeSCio

with such a mindset, it’s no use knowing what makes him think that way.

Anyway, codey, this is an interesting analysis you put forth here, which I have never heard of. Although I find it a bit far-fetched, I’d be interested to hear a couple of more of these analyses.

A few questions coming to my mind:
- why would those extra-terrestrial persons chose Earth? Or is it that they go from one planet to the next?
- why did they look like humans?
- if multiple people came from outer-space, did they all come from the same place? or is it possible that one came from Krypton, the other from Pluto etc? then the question is why do all have the same human features? Or did allll of them have the ability to appear like humans?

You raised important questions. The answers lie in the next citation from holy quran, i shall put forth in few hours. I will quote the text of quranic verses and put it forward my analysis and i shall solicit your views

Since now i dont have reliable power suply. Please visit this post as i will update it after some time with details. thanks

Updated

The answer of 2nd and 3rd question can be derived from the following passage of holy quran, Those who are interested, please critically examine these verses and my point of view

I am going to post one translation of this passage ( shakir ) please check other translations and arabic text yourself.

*This is from Sura Hijr , Chapter 15 of holy quran *

And inform them of the guests of Ibrahim: {51} When they entered upon him, they said, Peace. He said: Surely we are afraid of you. {52} They said: Be not afraid, surely we give you the good news of a boy, possessing knowledge. {53} He said: Do you give me good news (of a son) when old age has come upon me?-- Of what then do you give me good news! {54} They said: We give you good news with truth, therefore be not of the despairing. {55} He said: And who despairs of the mercy of his Lord but the erring ones? {56}** He said: What is your business then, O messengers? {57}** They said: Surely we are sent towards a guilty people, {58} Except Lut’s followers: We will most surely deliver them all, {59} Except his wife; We ordained that she shall surely be of those who remain behind. {60}

As per general understanding these ‘guests of Ibrahim’ are considered angels, most likely 2 in number. I dispute that notion. I believe they were our friends from outer space.

I have my reasons for such belief.

1. These people are reffered as ‘guests’ , and then ‘messengers’ If you read this chapter from begining there is mention of angels. Notice the different words used in different tales.

2. Notice the words uttered by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh)“**He said: Surely we are afraid of you.” **It appears that these two gentlemen were wearing some smart dresses or their physical features were some what different that normal human beings

3. it appears that these people offered same treatment to prophet ibrahim’s wife as was rendered to Hazrat Mariyam later on.

Now the passage continues:

So when the messengers came to Lut’s followers, {61} He said: Surely you are an unknown people. {62} They said: Nay, we have come to you with that about which they disputed. {63} And we have come to you with the truth, and we are most surely truthful. {64} Therefore go forth with your followers in a part of the night and yourself follow their rear, and let not any one of you turn round, and go forth whither you are commanded. {65} And We revealed to him this decree, that the roots of these shall be cut off in the morning. {66} And the people of the town came rejoicing. {67} He said: Surely these are my guests, therefore do not disgrace me, {68} And guard against (the punishment of) Allah and do not put me to shame. {69} They said: Have we not forbidden you from (other) people? {70} He said: These are my daughters, if you will do (aught). {71} By your life! they were blindly wandering on in their intoxication. {72} So the rumbling overtook them (while) entering upon the time of sunrise; {73} Thus did We turn it upside down, and rained down upon them stones of what had been decreed. {74} Surely in this are signs for those who examine. {75} And surely it is on a road that still abides. {76} Most surely there is a sign in this for the believers.

Notice the similar expression uttered by prophet lut (pbuh)
**“He said: Surely you are an unknown people.” **
Both prophets of Allah found these people somewhat strange, and unknown. And Allah has recorded their unfamilarity with these people in holy quran. I believe there he is trying to tell us some thing. Prophets usually are quite familliar with angels.

Now examine the second bold part :

The people of town were homosexual and they got the news of these visiting strange ( maybe beautiful ) people. Notice the warning and then plea of Prophet lut, for saving his honourable guest from ignorant and evil people of the town who came with bad intentions.

If they were angels then prophet lut must have known that people of the town can not harm them at all. But on the contrary Prophet lut , sternly warned them to back off , and even offered his daughters to save his guests from nasty people of the town.

Later the town was destroyed by these ‘guests’ after sending prophet and his follower to far off place.

Surely in this are signs for those who examine. {75}

[Light_Bearer]

What do you mean "such a mindset"?

Even Light_Bearer finding is it a bit silly.

Codey TV is a propaganda machine and dumb people believe in everything they watch on TV to be real like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Xmen, Heroes etc etc.

Regarding your "secret belief" which is not so secret anymore, either it is Ahmadism or Scientology or something else but it's surely not Islam.

Bibi what exactly do you mean by this?

hareem01

^I dont see Light Bearer mentioning anywhere that he finds the post 'silly'. For your reference I quote that part of the post directed to codey beneath:

The first part is a (rhetorical) question brought in a respectful way. The second part talks about his interest in codey's post, yet cautions that it is too early for him to draw any conclusions. Pray tell, where it says that LB found the post 'silly' or from where you deduce that?

Now, what I meant with 'such a mindset', is that you a priori label his belief as nonsense without knowing why he thinks this way. It ought to be other way around: first find out why he is thinking this way, and then based on that judge for yourself whether you find it nonsense or not. Actually that is exactly what LB is saying he will do ...

Why coudn't you find any explanation for this? "at least when it will start making sense"

well, if something does not makes sense, does not mean it is nonsense. It can also not make sense to you, because you are not in a situation to grasp the true meaning yet. It is therefore not non-sense, but sense which is currently beyond your wit. And in that case, one should wait and see if additional information can make it sense for you, as LB rightfully does.

so -assuming you are no rocket scientist-, you regard Einstein's general theory of relativity as nonsense? or any other advanced theory in any field that you do not specialize in?

point being, you did not say the same thing in different words, because the above equality does not hold; it should be:

Things that don't make sense = non-sense + things that make sense, but you don't grasp that sense yet

and here lies the difference between your statement and LB's.

I enjoyed both of you respected guppie's attention. But Nescio understood exactly what I meant.

I always enjoy alternate/conspirisy theories.

[hareem01]

Re: My secret belief

^No matter how bogus they sound?

Codey bhai
pehlay AQ kay swalon ka jawab dain.

[Light_Bearer]

Re: My secret belief

^ I am just amused where all of this going.

[goodnews]

@cricketplaya

mash’Allah, kia roza lagraha hai?

[psyah]

^ I am just amused where all of this going.

Peace Light Bearer

Hopefully your amusement shall be short lived. This is a rogue thread destined for exile. Muslims may seem to you to be entertaining such idosyncratic assertions but trust me the vast majority are 'playing' the 'open-minded' stance, so they can not be branded or labelled - in the contrary.

Myself included ... even though I am not in actual fact as 'open-minded' as I appear to be. I trust yo understand that when Islamic doctrine has been established and conformity obtained ... the last thing to do is to be 'open-minded' or to put it another way 'open to change' ... in remedial matters ... yes ... but this by no means suggests that Muslims are weak in faith. Rather we are grounded enough not to raise too much of a fuss regarding such things.

It seems the Qur'an is correct yet again with respect to the ayat that armughal has posted earlier.

[Code_Red]

@hareem01

^No matter how bogus they sound?

Codey bhai
pehlay AQ kay swalon ka jawab dain.

Please make up your mind, before forwarding any such request

If you consider my beliefs nonesense and bogus then you should not be visting this topic second time. But on the contrary, you seem eager for further elaboration from my side ? why ?

You have been constantly ridiculing and insulting my beliefs all along. Neither your religion , nor the rules of this forum allow insulting or mocking other people’s beliefs.

Please tender an unconditional and sincere apology for your crude behaviour.
Only after that i will be able to entertain any of your requests.

[Spock]

Re: My secret belief

Its just a sad state of affairs. People have grown so intolerant that they cant even let someone share their views on their beliefs anymore.

Since Codey provided some interesting analogies (i.e. superman), I'd also relate what this thread deipts. A young and brilliant guy presenting his unique and radical views to the world. The world cant take it. The smart ones choose to either ignore him, or suppress him. The not-so-smart ones lacking the brains to counter his argument just mock him and try to harm him physically. Now this hasn't happened in this thread, but because of all this, the young innovative chap buckles under all this negativity and instead of becoming a superman, he becomes Lex Luthor!