My questions to Ahmadi ......

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I read the link **Ahmadje **gave for explanation that Mirza provided about his being messenger of God..

http://www.alislam.org/books/A%20Misunderstanding%20removed.html

After redaing it I am amazed that how confused Mirza claims are! We have Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)''s guidance and unchanged Quran then why we need a mirror of Prophet Muhammad! check these quotes from the reading…

                                      Ek Ghalati Ka Izala

“The fact is that the holy and pure revelation which God has vouchsafed me contains such words as nabi (prophet) and rasul (messenger). These words occur in my revelations not once or twice but hundreds of times. In the face of these revelations, how can this answer be correct that such words do not occur at all. Whereas such words now occur more often with greater frequency and clarity than before.”

** even if it occurs millions of times what would it signify! Messengers of God were told uprightly about their status and not in tit bits or in different frequencies**

"He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over every other religion (vide page 498). In this revelation I have been clearly designated as rasul (messenger). Again in the same book there is another revelation: JARIYALLAH FI HALALUL ANBIYAA’ i.e., the champion of God in the garb of prophets. (vide page 504) Again close to it there is still another revelation: MUHAMMADUR-RASOOLULLAH WALLAZEENA MA’AHU ASHIDDAA’ 'ALAL KUFFAARI RUHAMAA’U BAINAHUM i.e., Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are hard against the disbelievers, tender among themselves. In this divine revelation I have been called Muhammad and rasul (messenger) as well.

** how hard he is trying to convince about his revelations! so how this book of revelation stand in contrast to Quran? if its a word of God and most recent it must clearly be far ahead of Quran? and now hes also called Muhammad!!!**

Then again on page 557 we find the revelation: DUNYA MAIN AIK NAZEER AAYA i.e., a warner came unto the world. Its second reading is: DUNYA MAIN AIK NABI AAYA i.e., a prophet came unto the world. Similarly at several other places as well in the Braheen-i-Ahmadiyya I have been addressed as nabi (prophet) and rasul (messenger).

** .. and this book of God he got published from subscription from people **

.. in the Quranic verse: WA LAAKIR RASOOLULLAHI WA KHAATAM-AN NABIYYEEN i.e., He is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. This verse embodies a great prophecy which has escaped the notice of my opponents. It is this that after the advent of the Holy Prophet the divine gift of prophecy will remain withheld from the world till the end of time. It will not be possible for any man, be he a Hindu, a Jew, a Christian or a so-called Muslim to justify the use of the appellation nabi (prophet) for himself. All the approaches to this exalted office have been closed except the one of sirat-i-Siddiqui which is synonymous with complete annihilation in the love of the Holy Prophet. Thus he who seeks to approach God through it is made to wear the mantle of prophethood which is nothing but a part of the Holy Prophet’s own prophethood. Such claimant to prophethood does not infringe the prophethood of Muhammad. it is so because his prophethood is neither self-subsisting nor independent. He derives all that is good in him not from his self but from the Holy Prophet, the fountainhead of all grace. He is, therefore, a prophet not for self-exaltation but for the glorification of the Holy Prophet. That is why he is known in heaven as Muhammad and Ahmad.

** here all he tries to say is that a person can with intense love of Holy Prophet (PBUH) can annihilate into him! so in one hand Mirza says hes the promised messiah appointed by God and his messenger whereas he says there is adoor open in prophethood for someone who by self-exaltation can become prophet of God.. **

In short, my prophethood is due to my being Muhammad and Ahmad and not by myself: I have been vouchsafed this rank because of my complete annihilation in the Holy Prophet, and thus the sense of the expression KHAATAMAN NABIYYEEN (Seal of the prophets) is not at all interfered with.

The sense of the expression KHATAMAN NABIYYEEN (Seal of the prophets) demands that all traces of separateness from the Holy Prophet should disappear and as long as there persists the least veneer of it, anybody claiming to be a nabi (prophet) will be dubbed as a breaker of the Seal to which the expression KHAATAMAN NABIYYEEN (Seal of the prophets) refers. But if a person as a result of a complete union loses his whole being in that of the Prophet, wiping out the least trace of separateness and comes to reflect in his person all the beauties and excellences of the Holy Prophet like a clear mirror, he will be called a nabi (prophet) without, however, breaking the Prophet’s Seal because he is a reflex of Muhammad and his alter-ego.
** this means anyone can become that mirror! but Mirza has said million of times that hes messenger of God appointed by God himself?**

If one who proclaims the knowledge of the Unseen from God is not entitled to prophethood, then by what other name would you call him?

** and now what knowlwdge of unseen is? Mirza have claimed hundreds of prophecies and miracles.. Prophet Muhammad’s miracle was Quran .. I havent read of any messenger of God who made such boisterous claims of having thousands of miracles as Mirza have claimed.. **

So when I have myself witnessed the clear fulfillment of about 150 prophecies, how can I refuse to call myself a Prophet or Messenger of Allah? He Himself has bestowed upon me these names; who am I to reject them or why I am to fear anybody in opposition to God?

** now who laid this criteria of prophecies.. Prophet Muhammad never said about his score of prophecies! **

Twenty years ago as published in the BRAHEEN-I-AHMADIYYA, God called me Muhammad and Ahmad and declared my advent to be the Holy Prophet’s own coming. Thus my prophethood in no way clashes with the status of the Holy Prophet as KHATAM-AL-ANBIYA because the shadow is inseparable from the original and in an allegorical sense I am the same Muhammad.

** and now he claims to be Muhammad (PBUH) . Now when Muhammad (PBUH) said he will come again.. and what new message beside Quran would be delivered.. just imagine! **

then you reject the traditions of the Holy Prophet which say that the Promised Mahdi will bear a strong physical and spiritual resemblance to his Great Master so much so that he will even be known by the names by which the Holy Prophet was known i.e., he will be called Muhammad and Ahmad and will be a member of his household. It has again been mentioned in some of the traditions that he will be from me.

** just traditions .. its not a part of Islam .. no mention in Quran.. **

In short, the phrase KHATAMANNABIYYIN is a divine seal stamped on the prophethood of the Holy Prophet. It is impossible that it should ever break. But it is quite possible that the Holy Prophet may come to this world not once or twice but hundreds of times in the form of a person who may reflect in him all the attributes of the Holy Prophet and become his image or counter-type and while demonstrating the Prophet’s other qualities may also demonstrate in his person his attributes. In short, the phrase KHATAMANNABIYYIN is a divine seal stamp of prophethood also.

** dunno what he wants here to say.. **

..rest is self-praise and glorification.. please read the whole link and decide if anything can be made of this.. to me its just like peeling an onion.. u find nothing!

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A 10 year old kid can bring out the fallacy in Qadiyaaniyat with some sense and logic. Only fools blinded by stolen wealth and certain privileges would be stupid enough to continue on the path to hell like Mirza and his followers.

Degas, good work brother. Now watch them go back few steps and say "hey this isn't the way it sounds..." or "this isn't what you are reading..." then black becomes white and white becomes blue when their lies and illogical "beliefs" are caught under the big and powerful foot of TRUTH and reason!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rangeela Guppy: *
For Bismah other unfortunate individuals who are fooled and deceived by the fake claims of Qadiyaani religion:

[/QUOTE]

Only Allah knows which one of us is the unfortunate one!

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Brother Rangeela, Asalama Lakum, how deep in a Molvi’s butt do you live? Is it dark inside? Here you tell me that I call you names, but you seem to take pleasure in calling names to my Holy personalities? There’s a hope for you as you will see the light when the Mullah takes a crap. You are a little chickpea of your mommy.

Khuda Hafiz, May Osama forgive your sins.

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nyahmdhi

why do you always talk about peoples butts do you have some kind of sick intrest in them or something :rotato:

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Degas,

I was trying not to get involved, though its that gene I was talking about earlier in my comments to Zalim bhai that just doesn't let me stay away! May Allah bless my soul.

Anyway, for your first post, please show me where is it that hatred is professed by the translation you quoted of Hazrat Mirza Mahmud (r)? Where does it say to hate them, burn their houses, kill them etc. anywhere? It only states that there are differences, which you yourself agree upon & can't help but stress whenever you get a chance.

Secondly, the little I can gather from the text you posted, it seems it is directed towards the issue of Lahorei Ahmadi group or those who are/were inclined to their beliefs. As explained before they had the growing ideology to "integrate" with the main-stream so they be less persecuted and they in turn had changed the interpretation of the teachings & claims of Promised Messiah (as). This is nothing new, there are many in the believers who at times of hardship try to find ways to avoid such persecution; but the true believers stay steadfast! You also need to get a Arabic dictionary and find out what it means by the term "Kafir" & "kufr".

Now, on your comments to the book I referenced, most of them are your personal opinions based on your preconceived notions, there is little I can do about them. Though, let me address the few questions you asked, maybe it will benefit someone else.

1) The revelations about his appointment as a prophet are nothing close to being ambiguous, on the contrary they are crystal clear. If you had read Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya you wouldn't have objected as such in the first place. Let me quote some & then you can make your opinion like before:

[quote]
"Allah bless thee O Ahmad. It was not thou who didst throw but it was Allah Who did throw. The Most Gracious One has taught thee the Quran **so that thou shouldst warn the people whose ancestors have not been warned and that the way of the guilty ones might become manifest. **Proclaim; I have been commissioned and I am the first of the believers." (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
[/quote]

.. and another one ...

[quote]
"Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you believe? Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you submit?" (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
[/quote]

There are more than just that.

Though the book is not about his revelations that get mentioned while he makes other arguments. The focus of the book is defense of Islam, Quran & the prophethood of AnHazoor (saw) (Full name of the book: Brahin-i-Ahmadiyya ala haqiqati kitabilla hil Qur 'an wannubuwwatil Mohammadiyya which translates as "The proofs of the truth of the Book of Allah - the Holy Qur'an, and the Prophethood of Muhammad (sa)).

He wrote it in the wake of persistent attacks by the exponentially growing Christians & their missionaries who published more hatred & mockery of Islam than ever before. And the bitter Ariya Samaj who wanted to revert back the people of the sub-continent to their original religion, Hinduism. While other Maulvies professed hatred & killing of the Christians & Hindus in the name of Jihad, he took up his pen in the defense of Islam as commissioned by Allah to do so. He sent his followers to the all the remote parts of India where the Christians & Hindus were head over heals with their propaganda schemes. Held Munaziras (open debates) with Christians priests, Hindu pundits, Atheists etc. They are all documented for those who want to learn.

2) Promised Messiah (as) revelations do not add or subtract an iota to the Quran. He mentions that over & over again in his writings and sermons, and believes that those who think that certain verses of Quran are abrogated by certain other verses are at fault. Quran is as glorious as it was when it was revealed, with not even the prepositions being doubtful or changeable.

Your objection is rooted in the lack of understanding the concept of "Wahi" or revelation. If you think the only "Wahi" that ever descended on AnHazoor (saw) is all written down in Quran than you are profoundly mistaken. For example, Allah told AnHazoor (saw) about the women who was about to warn the Meccans of the Muslims advances towards Mecca, do you know where is that in Quran? Then Allah told him in "Wahi" the sights & sounds of the whole city of Jerusalem in response to the Jews who laughed at his experience of Miraj .. can you show it listed in Quran? Even the blessed Khulafa (r) had revelations! In a battle where Hazrat Umer (r) was commanding the troops, Allah told him that the enemy is planning to surround his army from all sides. Resultantly, he directed them to have their backs towards the mountain. When he called out to them, each & every one of them heard his call, even though there was in chaos of the war & they were many thousands in number. How do you suppose Allah told Hazrat Umer (ra) & then got his voice heard to each & every believer?

Quran tells us that angels descend on those who are righteous & momin, and those who believe & comfort them: "As for those who say, Our Lord is ALLAH;' and then remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, reassuring them:Fear not, nor grieve; and rejoice in the glad tidings of the Garden which you were promised;" (41: 31/32)

Indeed, Allah knows best!

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NYA, I see Qadiyaanis already have a mirror image of Mirza and that is you. When truth comes to shove, bigots like you turn to name calling. Refute my logic/argument if you are truthful… otherwise keep wondering about butts of mullahs. Maybe you are only good at that. :hehe:

Bismah, followers of Prophet of ALLAH, Mohammad bin Abdullah can’t be unfortuate, that leaves followers of Mirza in this case…lets shun the extreme arrogance and look down upon ourselves and THINK/REASON over what mirza gave you was nothing but planned British doctrine so you people can cause mayhem in Muslim world by “acting” all innocent and pious! :wink:

Why followers of PROPHET of ALLAH Mohammad bin Abdullah are not unfortunate:

“When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, it does not behoove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.” Qur’ân (33:36)

We take command/follow messenger of Allah, Mohammad son of Abdullah. If we don’t, then we are unfortunate. Who do you take commands from? Who do you follow? Mirza? British plans/doctrines that they gave to your fake “prophet” mirza? Fake and misleading translation of quran which translated back into arabic would mean totally different!?!?

Furthermore, Allah says: “What the Messenger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it.” Qur’ân (59:7)

Now, those verses are from QURAN which was REVEALED/MADE FOR last prophet of ALLAH Mohammad bin Abdullah, not from some ahlul-jahiliyaa or some other fancy book written by mirza and his british masters.

Those who are on false and fake beliefs make their own jannats in this world! Quran tells us many rulers did so in the past and you Qadiyaanis have one too… just to fool some in this world.

Israel wouldn’t be recruiting you Qadiyaanis from India if it didn’t know you can cause harm to Muslims/Islam/Quran and really can deceive other innocent/ignorant/desperate people into being slaves of zionsits and non-muslims just like you Qadiyaanis. It wouldn’t be doing so if it didn’t know that you were on false/fake “islam” and that you really helped British in their killings of innocent muslims while your fake “prophet” packed his bags with stolen money and some land!
It wouldn’t be recruiting qadiyaanis if it didn’t know that qadiyaanis would SELL anything including their faith, morals, diginity, honor, respect, etc. for some money and some other privileges. It wouldn’t be recruiting qadiyaanis if it didn’t know that Mirza was easy to BUY for the British and his followers are MUCh easier to buy so it can use them as toilet paper in its war against Islam/Muslims and Palestinians. Good going… atleast you are following your “prophet” correctly.

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Nyahmadi, ak47 rangeela... This is stupid... Ahmadis have their own beliefs, we have our own, and to be honest, none of you can change each other views, so whats the point in arguing? Its best to stay united and if our religion can not bind us, our country should be enough to bind us. and ak47 I know you believe all non-muslims are kaffar and are to be wiped out, but this wont work buddy... They are Pakistanis as well, so learn to respect that.

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what you talking about when did i say wipe out non muslims you should try and stick to facts instead of your imagination :rolleyes:

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very interesting.. and more interesting is the fact how all mods and admins are asleep while some are involved in mud-slinging other people's beliefs and personalities they hold in high estem.

Why are people who subscribe to the same beliefs as the mods allowed to throw insults without even the slightest fear of being censored or banned??

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Someone requested that I delete what I wrote, so I am going to suck it up. I hope that that someone is happy now.

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This issue has been debated to death in this forum.

From now on, if anyone wants info on ahmadism or qadianiism, search for it.