My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Pakistanis should be more concerned about their own tv channels' rape of Urdu than the big bad Arab influence on Urdu.

22

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

lols. I take my words back that even a layman in rural Sindh can differnciate between a song and holy Quran :wink:

PS: I couldn’t watch video posted by Shamraz.

23

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Pakistanis should be more concerned about the toxic political and ideological influence creeping in from modern day Middle East than debating about importance of their Arabic roots.

Contemporary Middle East should not be an inspiration or role model states for Pakistanis. Period.

24

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

And there is no music in that hadra either ... That is what they are doing ... It's called a hadra ...

... Funny at work my British-Australian colleague ... A mild nice slightly fascist man in his mid 50s ... He complains on a regular basis that he gets woken up by the azdan he says "I heard that man singing again" then he proceeds to imitate the mu'azzin ... saying "oa al a oh hao lla " and that makes me chuckle because he is not really a cultured person - so I don't expect anything less.

I reply to him "So it's doing its job then ... " because the fajr azdan has the extra verses "The Prayer is Better than Sleep"

He can hear the azdan across the whole city because it's all quite in the dark hours of the morning and the only sounds the come are from the fajr azdan more or less done within the same few minutes so it resembles - to him an echo - that he refers to as "eeriee" ... LOL ... I'm thinking 'that is blessed sound may be what separates us from jannah and jahannum'

25

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

The difference is 1) if you are living in London you can be gentlemen/women from London if you wish (as saying goes when in Rome...etc.) & 2) Arabs want nothing to do with us maskeen "Bakistanis". We are trying to be like them in our own country.

The fact is, most of our ancestors (as NP points out) were converted Hindus. How many people know that our contemporary hero, like Allama Iqbal & Jinnah, were only 2 generators before were Hindus? Denying out history & genealogy do us no good. Let us be proud of who we are instead of trying to be people who look down on us & want nothing to do with us.

26

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Becuase TUQ is the head of sufis in Pakistan. Didn’t you know?

27

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Rotfl....Pakistanis (ISI) themselves created the monster they love to associate with US and Middle East. Yes, US and some khaliji countries (that you like to call Middle East) has given the financial aid but what happens on Pakistani land is totally in Paki gov and army's control.

Talking about modern times, globalisation has taken over the world. There are secularist or pro modern Arabs who can fully associate themselves with pro modern Pakistanis.

28

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

He's the head of his organisation called minhaj ul Islam....I'm not aware of him being a head of any Sufi tariqa.

29

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

you are right, I miss spoke. However minhaj ul Quran is heavy into sufistic beliefs the core of which is "wahdat al wujood" and assigning above human values to the Prophet saw. Read Tafsir of Ahmed Raza Barelvi which TUQ follows.

30

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Its true, Pakistanis are obsessed with being or appearing Arab. Anyone notice how all these born again Muslim types now wear those long Arab robes like the sheiks...

Western influence isnt nearly as bad as Arab influence. Arab influence ultimately seems to lead to extremism and intolerance. Western influence just leads to pop music and fast food. I choose the pop music and fast food over Wahabi influenced terrorists any day.

31

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Saudi Money comes with Saudi influences in the form of support for extremist ideology. Pakistan's fault is in allowing themselves to fall to such levels that they need such financial support that opens them up to the negative influence of Arabs, particularly of the Wahabi types.

32

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

How can one say Pakistan created Taliban but in the same breath downplay the role Saudi Arab and US' had played? That's an embarrassingly simplified twist of such complex matter.

Taliban for Pakistan is geopolitics gone not just wrong but out of control.

33

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Sorry, but this guy is not living in London…

I suppose he is celebrating our hindu ancestry? I didn’t know they were ‘hippie radicals’.

As far as I know, we do not have anything to do with Hippies of 70s either… but somehow, Nadeem Paracha thought it is a good idea to dress up like them. He has, however, problems with people who wanna dress up like Arabs?

I don’t have problems with either. Just want to set the record straight.

34

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Visit any Pakistani city and count the number of people wearing jeans/t-shirts and those wearing long arab robes. You'll know how obsessed Pakistanis are with being or appearing Arab. An empirical study should be the best reflection of the facts, no?

35

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

^ It leads to conflict when they propagate a certain interpretation of Islam. Obviously there is no conflict in SA. They are already extremely conservative. Terrorism funded from gulf states *is *a problem, so much so that the Saudi government has started placing restrictions on private donations to religious "schools". The Pakistani Army, along with Wahhabis, have systematically curtailed the influence peaceful sects of Islam in Pakistan.

Yes, we shouldn't be overly westernized either but we're comparing clothing/customs to social, political, and religious aspirations. Adopting Arabic clothing and fashion would be far less troublesome than pretending to be of Arabic descent, and thus, marginalizing our South Asian roots.

36

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

So, again, it is not the influence of Arab culture that is destroying us. Even if you claim the people living in Saudi Arabia are extremely conservative and they preach hatred towards people other than their own version of Islam, how would you explain largely peaceful existence of Americans and other expats in Saudi Arabia for decades? If they teach killing non-Muslims, why not start in their own country where they can find millions of them? Why we do not hear about bomb blasts in expat compounds in SA?

Why do we blame them for our own inability to ensure law and order in the country? Why do we let Saudi funding reach extremists? It has absolutely nothing to do with our desire to appear Arab or have our family tree touch Madina at some point.

I have no problems with people wanting to appear either western or Arab. It is a choice they make and is all good as long as they remain withing the bounds of law. The false claims of Arab ancestry can easily be refuted with a little research just as NP's grandad did.

37

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

The premise of the thread is about emulating Arabs. That includes culture, as well as their interpretations of Islam. Yes, our government and army are not excused, but let's not pretend that emulating Saudi Arabia's version of Islam is not a problem, and that Saudi Arabia does not actively promote this mindset.

Many Saudis do in fact have a problem with Americans in their lands. The difference is that law and order is much more established in SA than Pakistan, which is a separate issue from private donations from the gulf states funding terrorism across the world.

Bottom line: Arabic language, clothing, customs mean little. But when we view Arabs as the ideal, especially in religion, which is hardly a topic that leads to reasonable debate, it leads to the denial of our shared heritage with Indians.

38

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

No, sorry, I cannot see that from the article. It is about cultural influences and our historical identity. I cannot see how a person, remaining within the bounds of law, wearing long arabic style robes is different from one wearing jeans and t-shirt. Neither of them represent our cultural/historical roots. In words of NP, they are just exchanging one form of ‘cultural imperialism’ and importing another.

I would agree with you on the influence of Arabs on religious mindset in Pakistan but that has a very different context and history and starts with USSR-Afghan war and has very little to do with Arab (not Muslim) culture and our historical identities. That brainwashing was not an Arab-only project anyways.

39

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

I agree. Sindh had produced many heroes, poets and sufis. Even a person who came from Russia "Lal Shah Baz Qalinder' the great saint accepted by people belonging to many religions pay homage every year to his mazar. He never said in his poetry that he was Russian or belonging to Azerbaijan.

He always say

Sindhrhi da Sehwan da Sakhi Shabaz Qalandir

Shame on those people who were born in Sindh or for that matter in any other province of Pakistan and relate to some other foreign race.

40

Re: My name is Pakistan and I’m not an Arab

Yes, our cultural and historical identity, the authenticity of which is certainly revised when we deny our Indian heritage and falsely embrace Arabic culture. I agree that there is no difference between Arabic robes and jeans and a t-shirt, and I say that in one of my earlier responses. But we have to consider why *we emulate Arabs:* religion**. The belief that somehow their interpretation of Islam is righteous and pure. And it is fairly evident that certain interpretations of religion in the Arab world are incredibly conservative, more so than Pakistan used to be, and it is the influence of people in these religions, *along with the ineptitude of institutions within Pakistan, *that contribute to more violence and bloodshed. So yes, American or otherwise, culture imposition is culture imposition, but only one of those cultures comes along with the baggage of religious imposition. I'll let you take a guess at that.

The article begins with a woman assuming that Arabic music is spiritual because she assumes it's religious. You don't see it? The author makes various references to Muslims and the ulema. You don't see it? Arabic culture is only idealized because of Islam. That's the key difference.