Re: Ibn sadique
Assalam mun ale kum,
If you do not mind shall I ask you another question regarding Hazrat Hfza(R) and Hazrat Aeysha (R) and sorah Tahreem. Just, about its first page. Bye Sokoon
Wa 'Alaykum salaam
By all means. Open a new thread. Those who know will answer you.
So you have agreed to that " Our Rasoul had undoubtedly NO doubt on her character."
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
Wa 'Alaykum salaam
By all means. Open a new thread. Those who know will answer you.
So you have agreed to that " Our Rasoul had undoubtedly NO doubt on her character."
/QUOTE Personal character and (2) political opinion are two different things.
Can we blame on Nuh’s and Lut’s wives on their personal characters. There can be a better word to explain this; but I hope you got my point.
A few corrections here about the description of the main event by sokoon. I happened to be there when this event took place, I did not witness it but I used to live in Makkah at the time.
It was done on American orders based on what transpired in Madinah, how did you come-up with that conclusion? Are there any facts to back this up. If today I carry banners condemning Musharaf and tomorrow I get run over by a bus would you say I was killed by his regime?
Iranian pilgrims had been doing demonstrations for the past few years despite Saudi government’s warnings. Actually in one of those years Iranian pilgrims were even banned from performing Hajj for violating this restriction in the previous year. That year Khumanie threatened the Saudi government that they will drop the pilgrims with parachute from planes over Makkah. Hmm, that would have been interesting.
There are a lot of reasons for not allowing such demonstrations; like there are millions of people from other countries there performing Hajj and such demonstrations can cause catastrophic results when you have packed-up so many people in a small town like Makkah (I am sure you have heard of stampedes during Hajj, it kills many every year). On top of that they insisted that they will march to the Haram in a huge procession. Imagine the chaos if that would have happened. In this case Saudis are the host and they are supposed to provide security to the pilgrims. So they had every right to deny permission and stop the demonstration by force. This demonstration and all others were unauthorized. Actually the demonstration/procession was stopped few feet away from Haram near a bridge.
Now force that was used was totally uncalled for, it was plain brutal and inhumane. Saudi law enforcement is a joke. The police in Makkah cannot handle the law and order situation when millions of pilgrims descent on Makkah/Madinah. So what they do is they hire “temps” and they borrow police (traffic and others) from other cities around the kingdom. Same is done for doctors and engineers etc. In this process they recruit these jahil people who don’t even know how to handle their uniforms let alone handling law and order. And this event was exactly that, lack of skilled force who could/should have handled the situation in a peaceful manner. There are ways to stop demonstrations and disperse a gathering guns should not have been even allowed in that scene. No one knows what transpired that lead to shooting of many innocent people. May be some nervous cop shot someone in a panic or anger or some demonstrator got hold of a cop and try to snatch his gun, who knows. Also keep in mind that most of these cops had never seen demonstrations like these in their lives, they were not trained for this kind of stuff. Result was the Saudi cops opened indiscriminate fire on innocent and unarmed pilgrims causing death and injury. And I still remember the headline form the Arab News the next day … “Not even a single shot fired.” What a load of crap. My brothers and I drove to the area after this event had taken place and as I waited in the car (I couldn’t go as I was the only driver at that time and there was no parking in the area). My brothers saw bullet holes in the columns of the bridge. But they had done a superb job of cleaning up after the dead and injured.
I don’t buy the story that sokoon described about shoving dead and alive people into the cold storage indiscriminately. Saudis may be ignorant and arrogant but they will not commit such acts, a common man is a God-fearing person. But here is the reason that I know for a fact this part of the story is a fabrication. The dead bodies were kept at the cold storage in a hospital by the name of Zahir. That hospital is quite far from Haram and dead and alive were carried away in ambulances not in cold storage trucks or fork lifts. So this man claiming to have put these people in cold storage has to have gone in an ambulance to the hospital did his dirty deed and came back to Haram to say his namaz.. hmm doesn’t sound right.
In any case my post has become too long, so I will stop. Please analyze facts with logic, reasoning, and a cool mind don’t believe in just what you heard from someone.
Re: Chachoo
Dear Chachoo,
Assalm mun ale kum,
I am a person who takes care of my deeds more than I take care of any body else in this world, even my own kids, or parents or sister and brothers.
Actually you are speaking lies, exactly the way our Pakistani sheikhs spoke lies, when they got down from aeroplane with us at Karachi airport, after that HAJJ. They all said Iranians were taking Hajre Aswad, and they were in In the compound of Khanei kaaba.
We have heard from our fore fathers that shatan tries to divert the path of all those who perform hajj. Therefore in Pakistan there is a saying Hajji Pajji.
Now let me challenge you ------------some other time let this line as reference for later discussion.
Let me ask you a few questions?
1) who are you? Are you a pakistani?
2) Do you remember if there were some banners infront of that procession?
3) How far were you from that procession that time?
3b) How long did you see the mesacre with your personal own eyes?
4) If you had any friend or relative in that procession?
5) Did you hear the saudia's national news that day, in the evening?
6) Did you see the blood yourself, on the road?Where was it? And how much was it?
7) Do you remember that whole night most of saudians and others could not sleep in the doubt that Iran would attack tonight?
8) Did you read any saudi news paper the other day, in the morning?
9) Did you see people on the hills shouting and crying and with one voice they were asking "punishment to saudia ya khuda or ya allah; and together they were saying the word till late night FERYAD YA MOHAMMED?
10) Do you know many people were looking for their loved ones for months together?
If yes then please answer for all the above questions. If not and you still insist that you know the correct story then prove it. I have some photographs with me. Do you have?
Or if you are a true believer, and if you have strong believe,in GOD and Quran then, let us both swear upon QURAN. that what ever you wrote is your personal first hand information.
And I would also swear upon Quran, that what ever I have written is my personal first hand information, rather I have written the cruelity act much less.
I took care to just make it a small thread since the administrater does sometimes may not like the large thread. I can tell you much more than that.
Are you so sure of your self then come on, swear upon Quran; otherwise do not develop a habbit to speak lie for a country you do not belong. I like saudis, but this act was really worth mentioning ,since the truth is not yet became public. SUNNI SUUNAIE BATOUN PER Meth YAQEEN KARA KARYEE.
Saudia would not give, anything to you or me; why shall we speak lies for nothing.
We pray for the unity, we pray for the prosperity of all muslim ummah, but do remember since history has been made by muslims is relative. It was and is written keeping some objective infront. But remember;
QANOUNE QOUDRAT HEY
False disappears and truth wins and servives.
P.S: Do not forget swearing lie on Quran would bring AAZAB on the lier within fortnight. Usually death or otherwise. I have seen two such people in my life I am witness to it.
Re: Re: Chachoo
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
I am a person who takes care of my deeds more than I take care of any body else in this world, even my own kids, or parents or sister and brothers.
[/QUOTE]
How selfish of you..
Go get a life.... and focus your energies on some positive and constructive stuff that someone besides you can benefit from... and stop arguing like a high school kid...
^^ Is ko kehte hain dum daba keh bhagna!! 
from a pointless discussion like this one .. sure, why not...
half of the questions are irrelevant and the most of the others are answered in the first post... and to top it all off, swear on Allah (SWT).. and if you lie you will drop dead.. what the hell... grow up. The difference here is on facts not philosophical point of view.
If you say it is night and I say it is morning standing under the same skies, what do you do argue it out? In this case best option is to dig up the facts and find out what actually happened, lookup newspapers, archives etc. I stated how I perceived the events took place and he/she perceived how the same events took place... some times if two people look at the same thing they might see something completely different, we see what we want to see...
It is a pointless discussion leading to no where.. I am sure we all have better things to do than this kind of discussions.