My Hajj, experiences witnessing AT Towheed ----claim for saudia,

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Dear Readers ,

Hi,

I would try to keep it summerized.

It was 1987 I went to perform three Umras, in order to do practice to perform Hajj without any sort of mistake and repentance that I never knew this and I could not do this. I prepared my notes from all four sunni Fiqas and also From Emamies Fiqa which is Imam Jaffare Sadiq Fiqa.

I did the Hajj the kind I wanted , and I am very happy for that till today. I do not find that I forgot this or I did not know this.

I was in madina. I saw people with banners, on which there was written permission to take out the procession. These people were mostly Iranis and shia, from all over the world and from North Africa. ( this I never knew then later we came to know)

In that procession every one was acknowledging that: Who is the biggest Enemy of muslim or islam and the answer which was spreading aloud was America. Later some people gave small speeches that we must recognise our common enemy, america. They were saying shias are not your enemies, try to understand it etc etc

Later when we reached macca. We were staying atleast 4 kilometer away from Kabba, in a building which had many floors and each floor had some balcounies, from where one can see road at two directions making 90 degrees angle.

We saw the same kind of procession over there. That is the procession was also atleast 3 to 4 kilometer away from kaaba. Suddenly we saw from our second floor that hot water is being sprinkled on the procession.

Later we saw Saudi police were shooting at them left and right. Then we saw people from the crowed were pulling guns from the hands of police and we then saw police running.

Blood was spread few cm thick all over the road. People were lying dead or injured on the road or some of them were in the wheel chairs,

Within few minutes they washed the road.; as if nothing had happened there. A few men came with cars of the kind that has lifters, the lifted all dead or injured bodies.

Every thing became normal on the roads except many ladies and men, who had escaped climbed on small hills and were shouting FARYAD AND FARYAD, AlMADAD etc etc

After sometime we had to go to kaba for namaz when we went we saw a Pakistani man crying aloud and was saying O God I had to pick the dead and injured both in Kasheek, and I had to put alive and dead all in cold storage. The one who could have been saved would also die in cold storage. He was crying and was asking for forgiveness to God that O God I am a poor person it was their government order to pick dead or alive and quickly put them in cold storage. He was crying and saying if I would have not done it perhaps they would have put me in the same cold storage.

Later we heard them(saudies) saying on Tv in the news. “we sloughtered them with peace”

Really they Saudians are very cruel. And also what they had done was perhaps due to Americans instructions, because Iranians and others had permission to take out procession.Suddenly how did they changed? I guess since the procession of madina was a great success, americans never wanted it to be successful in Macca. Because muslims were more in macca in that procession.And all would have been possibly aganist america.

So saudia is from behind not with muslims or Pakistan or anyone muslim country. The other day, in some old oic conference, the king Fahad was shouting on Qaddaffi of Libya. saying what are you and —etc etc

I think what ever AT Towheed has written is correct.
Saudia always do bad things and later they blame others

Also on that hajj they did the propaganda that Iranis did all this procession in kabba ; where as they were 4-3 kilometer away from kabba. Also they did propaganda that Iranis were taking out Hajre Aswad . They are really the cause of down fall of muslims. We mu;st do some thing before it becomes too late. Regard Sokoon

2

Re: My Hajj, experiences witnessing AT Towheed ----claim for saudia,

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Readers ,

Hi,

I would try to keep it summerized.

It was 1987 I went to perform three Umras, in order to do practice to perform Hajj without any sort of mistake and repentance that I never knew this and I could not do this. I prepared my notes from all four sunni Fiqas and also From Emamies Fiqa which is Imam Jaffare Sadiq Fiqa.

I did the Hajj the kind I wanted , and I am very happy for that till today. I do not find that I forgot this or I did not know this.

I was in madina. I saw people with banners, on which there was written permission to take out the procession. These people were mostly Iranis and shia, from all over the world and from North Africa. ( this I never knew then later we came to know)

In that procession every one was acknowledging that: Who is the biggest Enemy of muslim or islam and the answer which was spreading aloud was America. Later some people gave small speeches that we must recognise our common enemy, america. They were saying shias are not your enemies, try to understand it etc etc

Later when we reached macca. We were staying atleast 4 kilometer away from Kabba, in a building which had many floors and each floor had some balcounies, from where one can see road at two directions making 90 degrees angle.

We saw the same kind of procession over there. That is the procession was also atleast 3 to 4 kilometer away from kaaba. Suddenly we saw from our second floor that hot water is being sprinkled on the procession.

Later we saw Saudi police were shooting at them left and right. Then we saw people from the crowed were pulling guns from the hands of police and we then saw police running.

Blood was spread few cm thick all over the road. People were lying dead or injured on the road or some of them were in the wheel chairs,

Within few minutes they washed the road.; as if nothing had happened there. A few men came with cars of the kind that has lifters, the lifted all dead or injured bodies.

Every thing became normal on the roads except many ladies and men, who had escaped climbed on small hills and were shouting FARYAD AND FARYAD, AlMADAD etc etc

After sometime we had to go to kaba for namaz when we went we saw a Pakistani man crying aloud and was saying O God I had to pick the dead and injured both in Kasheek, and I had to put alive and dead all in cold storage. The one who could have been saved would also die in cold storage. He was crying and was asking for forgiveness to God that O God I am a poor person it was their government order to pick dead or alive and quickly put them in cold storage. He was crying and saying if I would have not done it perhaps they would have put me in the same cold storage.

Later we heard them(saudies) saying on Tv in the news. "we sloughtered them with peace"

Really they Saudians are very cruel. And also what they had done was perhaps due to Americans instructions, because Iranians and others had permission to take out procession.Suddenly how did they changed? I guess since the procession of madina was a great success, americans never wanted it to be successful in Macca. Because muslims were more in macca in that procession.And all would have been possibly aganist america.

So saudia is from behind not with muslims or Pakistan or anyone muslim country. The other day, in some old oic conference, the king Fahad was shouting on Qaddaffi of Libya. saying what are you and ---etc etc

I think what ever AT Towheed has written is correct.
Saudia always do bad things and later they blame others

Also on that hajj they did the propaganda that Iranis did all this procession in kabba ; where as they were 4-3 kilometer away from kabba. Also they did propaganda that Iranis were taking out Hajre Aswad . They are really the cause of down fall of muslims. We mu;st do some thing before it becomes too late. Regard Sokoon
[/QUOTE]
True! This is the time things are exposing; people from themselves are against them now. Osama party is also working against them because of their evil-deeds covered by the slogans of Islam. Pretending that they are the true servants of Islam. That time is not far when Allah will set free this land from these kings of Arabia. There is no concept of this kind of Kingdom ship in Islam and from those are non-Qurashis(against hadith)

3

Jazakhaallahu Khayr sokoon.

Indeed they are those who hide themselves in the cloaks of Tawheed while they are some the biggest Mushrikeen and Apostates the World Knows.

Obviously they get away with everything by those who love them and help them with all that they can - The Scholars - Those, who justify all their Shirk, Kufr, tyranny, oppression, mockery, etc.

Bunch of sell out Scholars who have misled the Nation of Tawheed into taking these Rulers as their Gods besides the One and True God.

Indeed, we ask Allaah to raise these Scholars in the Hereafter with those whom they accompanied, defended, allied, helped, loved, liked, amongst the False Deities from the Pathetic Government of Aalis-Sau'd who are the descendents of Musaylamah al-Khadhaab.

[Disclaimer: I never called these Scholars Kuffaar and I do not pronounce them as Kuffar but their actions are actions of Disbelief, but I don't call them Kaffir. I'm waiting for the Scholars to do that.]

4

Well, the Raafidhah go to Hajj etc and cause Fitnah.

They should be banned.

They just go to worship graves and call upon 'Alee at the Ka'bah and raise their hands up to Curse the Best of the Believers of this Nation after the Prophet.

So, they just need to be banned from the Holy Places.

But, they are free nowadays to roam around Madeenah and Makkah, and commit their Shirk and curse the Companions.

I don't think Raafidhah should be allowed in the Holy Lands.

No Mushrikeen should exist there.

5

It is true that Saudi authorities (aal e saud) are not implementing shariah 100%. But who is? They do have hadood laws implemented. They do have an Islamic justice system. So why only criticize them when they are the best amongst any Sunni Muslim country.

Sister Al-Tauheed, there is something called hikmah. We can't just bring down governments and condemn them. Just imagine what would happen when the Saudi governemnt falls. Seculars would come up and impose something unthinkable in the holy land. I think that is what you want. I do not like the Aal e Saud but I i think they are the best of the worse. You may disagree. Think deeply, when the Ahle al sunnah wal jamaa fall, who would take over.....

Regarding what sokoon posted. First of all it is good that protest was supressed in such a way. They tried to create fassad. They had no right to protest in Holy Makkah and madinah and that too during hajj. They disturbed the peaceful hajj. If someone wants to protest why was makkah chosen as a spot? It is a place of peace, not for protest.

Sorry to say, although Iranis are our Muslim brothers but they always talk talk talk and no action. Oh "death to America" and they ended up collaborating with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan which the US also supported. What hypocricy is this? At least think before you talk.

6

hajj pilgrims were calling America the enemy of Islam en masse as far back as 1987? Man, maybe we are as dumb as everyone says? It took 14 years for us to realize that we were at war.

7

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
Well, the *Raafidhah go to Hajj etc and cause Fitnah.

They should be banned.

They just go to worship graves and call upon 'Alee at the Ka'bah and raise their hands up to Curse the Best of the Believers of this Nation after the Prophet.

So, they just need to be banned from the Holy Places.

But, they are free nowadays to roam around Madeenah and Makkah, and commit their Shirk and curse the Companions.

I don't think Raafidhah should be allowed in the Holy Lands.

No Mushrikeen should exist there.
[/QUOTE]

haha. sokoon, i think your point is wasted.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
It is true that Saudi authorities (aal e saud) are not implementing shariah 100%. But who is? They do have hadood laws implemented. They do have an Islamic justice system. So why only criticize them when they are the best amongst any Sunni Muslim country.

Sister Al-Tauheed, there is something called hikmah. We can't just bring down governments and condemn them. Just imagine what would happen when the Saudi governemnt falls. Seculars would come up and impose something unthinkable in the holy land. I think that is what you want. I do not like the Aal e Saud but I i think they are the best of the worse. You may disagree. Think deeply, when the Ahle al sunnah wal jamaa fall, who would take over.....

Regarding what sokoon posted. First of all it is good that protest was supressed in such a way. They tried to create fassad. They had no right to protest in Holy Makkah and madinah and that too during hajj. They disturbed the peaceful hajj. If someone wants to protest why was makkah chosen as a spot? It is a place of peace, not for protest.

Sorry to say, although Iranis are our Muslim brothers but they always talk talk talk and no action. Oh "death to America" and they ended up collaborating with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan which the US also supported. What hypocricy is this? At least think before you talk.
[/QUOTE]

my God this is unbelievable.. it is good that the blood of Muslims ran centimeters thick? It is justifiable in some way to fire bullets at unarmed people in their ehraam?

your criticism of Iran as a Pakistani that recieves billions in aid from your power of Evil is ridiculous. They are the ones that still officially did not support the removal of the Taleban, inspite of their grievances with the said group regarding the massacre of shias in hazara.

Name a single country apart from Iran and Syria that provide any semblance of diplomatic resistance to America/Israel.

Read this again:

[quote]

Blood was spread few cm thick all over the road. People were lying dead or injured on the road or some of them were in the wheel chairs,

Within few minutes they washed the road.; as if nothing had happened there. A few men came with cars of the kind that has lifters, the lifted all dead or injured bodies.

Every thing became normal on the roads except many ladies and men, who had escaped climbed on small hills and were shouting FARYAD AND FARYAD, AlMADAD etc etc

After sometime we had to go to kaba for namaz when we went we saw a Pakistani man crying aloud and was saying O God I had to pick the dead and injured both in Kasheek, and I had to put alive and dead all in cold storage. The one who could have been saved would also die in cold storage. He was crying and was asking for forgiveness to God that O God I am a poor person it was their government order to pick dead or alive and quickly put them in cold storage. He was crying and saying if I would have not done it perhaps they would have put me in the same cold storage.

Later we heard them(saudies) saying on Tv in the news. "we sloughtered them with peace"

Really they Saudians are very cruel. And also what they had done was perhaps due to Americans instructions, because Iranians and others had permission to take out procession.Suddenly how did they changed? I guess since the procession of madina was a great success, americans never wanted it to be successful in Macca. Because muslims were more in macca in that procession.And all would have been possibly aganist america.

[/quote]

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
It is true that Saudi authorities (aal e saud) are not implementing shariah 100%. But who is? They do have hadood laws implemented. They do have an Islamic justice system. So why only criticize them when they are the best amongst any Sunni Muslim country.

Sister Al-Tauheed, there is something called hikmah. We can't just bring down governments and condemn them. Just imagine what would happen when the Saudi governemnt falls. Seculars would come up and impose something unthinkable in the holy land. I think that is what you want. I do not like the Aal e Saud but I i think they are the best of the worse. You may disagree. Think deeply, when the Ahle al sunnah wal jamaa fall, who would take over.....

Regarding what sokoon posted. First of all it is good that protest was supressed in such a way. They tried to create fassad. They had no right to protest in Holy Makkah and madinah and that too during hajj. They disturbed the peaceful hajj. If someone wants to protest why was makkah chosen as a spot? It is a place of peace, not for protest.

Sorry to say, although Iranis are our Muslim brothers but they always talk talk talk and no action. Oh "death to America" and they ended up collaborating with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan which the US also supported. What hypocricy is this?

At least think before you talk.
[/QUOTE]

Islamabad

So you wanted Iran to help the Taliban - who looted and burned the homes of the shias in Afghanistan.

At least Iran stands up to America unlike the other muslim countries.

At-Tawheed These rafidahs and mushrikeen I guess you are referring to shias...... but I didn't know there was such thing as worshipping graves in shiasm. I thought shias worship only one God and the God is Allah.

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *

Sister Al-Tauheed, there is something called hikmah. We can't just bring down governments and condemn them. Just imagine what would happen when the Saudi governemnt falls. Seculars would come up and impose something unthinkable in the holy land. I think that is what you want. I do not like the Aal e Saud but I i think they are the best of the worse. You may disagree. Think deeply, when the Ahle al sunnah wal jamaa fall, who would take over.....
[/QUOTE]

Brother Islamabad. I think that the stance of sister At-Tawheed is correct.

Why should we be so negative that if this corrupt to the core Saudi government falls nothing better can replace it? That’s exactly the line the Saudi Government is putting out that: “Please tolerate our un-Islamic stances and corruption because if we go, only the worse than us will take over”.

This is a great fallacy because there are very capable people over there that can do a very good job which will benefit the Ummah a lot.
The Holy Prophet Mohamed (Peace Be upon Him) said: “The best fighting (Jihad) in the path of Allah is (to speak) a word of justice to an oppressive ruler.” {Sunan of Abu Dawood Hadith 4330, Narrated by Abu Said al-Khudri (RA)}

This government from its inception has been subservient to American Taghoots. It has always kept the American interests as it own interest even to detriment to its fellow Muslim brothers.

Except for implementing a few Hadood laws that too on the poor and the ones without any influence. Now one from the royal family has ever been charged without any wrong doing. Whereas everyone knows that the night clubs and the casinos in the west thrive on Saudi business. This Government has legislated and made Permissible what Allah(swt) has not allowed. All the banks work on interest just like in other Muslim country.

Go and check with anyone who has resided in Saudi Arabia. The western kaffirs are preferred over the Muslims. They are given privileged status against fellow Muslims. The fellow Muslims are never made feel as brothers in Islam. They are still following the employment rules set by Aramco some 70 years ago!

They in fact encourage tribalism and Nationalism within the Kingdom and without. To belong to the right tribe is a big bonus in Saudi Arabia to secure important government posts and not the ability.

It is on record that during the Lebanese and Sudanese civil wars the Saudi government was actively supporting the Christian forces.

They have joined the United Nations [like all other Muslim countries]; whereas the charter of UN says that sovereignty belongs to Man directly against the command of Allah (swt) who says that Sovereignty belongs to Allah Alone!

All the business laws are practiced against the Shariyah and interest taking in rampant directly against the commands of Allah azza wal jaal

They have invited foreign kaffir armed forced into the holy land directly against the command of Rasool Allah (saw) whose one of the last commands was never to let the Kuffar to set foot in the Jazeeratul Arab. Allah (saw) has stated many times that we should not take the kuffar as our allies.

These people should be thrown out and replaced by sincere Muslims who will implement Shariyah as it should be without any exception and favours.

The argument that we should support Al Saud and bear them lest they are replaced by someone worse is defeatist in essence and has the hallmark of self serving Saudi propaganda.

The problem is that Muslims have fallen so low that if some government implements only 10% of shariyah, its looks to be very Islamic.

Don’t worry brother the downfall of these taghoots will not affect the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama’a, in fact it may enhance it as there are very sincere and knowledgeable people there who can implement Islam as it should be.

11

what limitations would you require to be placed on the rafidin in the haram brother ibn sadique. and how much blood do you advocate spilling to make them comply?

12

Reply to revage, At-Touheed and Islamabad,

Dear Readers,

Hi!

I do not want you to have, the same thinking and feelings. I have written the matter of fact, that how much they are cruel that they put dead and alive both in cold storage. Is not this bad? Can you justify it?

I agree with Islamabad. At the moment at least when muslims are so much in trouble, and That what can we do, they are better among the worst. We can not even afford their down fall being a muslims.

Regarding, behavour of iranis over there; for every reaction also there is every action.

Who does what? what God would do to them you may have got some revelation.If you claim to deliver your minor fatwa against some one.

I believe that GOD does not sit in KABBa any day. Otherwise at that time whole world is empty of GOd'S presence.

Hajj is not this that mere ABaDaT the way we do.

It is something more than this.

Perhaps it is also a meeting point of all muslims on the day of Hajj and it is also Ebadat to collectively decide what would be next step of the muslims against any one who is a threat to Islam.

I think those who said it was useless act of Iran to have procession with the permission of saudi government is lack of knowledge about real reason for what we gether together on Hajj day. Discussion is also one of the best reason among all ohers, if, there is any other than Ebadat.

If muslims would have listen to that procession that day and would have set their prorities right, then what has happen after that would have had not happened and world would have been better place .

We judge every action whether it was good or bad, right or wrong by the out put or result of it in coming years. So it was right what iranis wanted to do and

It was the mistake of saudia to listen to america that day. As they were the part of that agreement of procession at the first place. Regards sokoon

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Brother Ibn Siddique and sister Al-Tauheed. :jazak: for sharing your valuable thoughts. In this age when Muslims have fallen so low that they are not even able to differenitate between right and wrong, I would again emphasize on the importance of imparting religious education. Maybe this is not the right time for confrontation. Allah knows best. Political struggle through peaceful means such as the use of media to awaken the ummah, giving education, reaching out to masses would pave the way for a silent revolution that would have firm foundations for a united ummah. Every Muslim must do their job in being sincere in their faith and then follow the Quran and Sunnah, so that we can come out of this darkness. Many of the Muslims who seem so misguided can come back to real Islam If Allah will and we make our efforts through Allah’s will. Therefore lets not call anyone murtad…etc.. because in this way very few would be left as this would also lead to alienation and give the Islamic forces a bad name. Although Izzah is from Allah, but we also do our best to invite with Hikmah and mauizzah tul Hasanah.

14

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum.

Bro Islamabad.

You are absolutely correct about the Jahiliyyah. You really are.

There is so much ignorance in the Ummah that people think what is Haraam is in fact Halaal and vice versa.

But you know what the main Ignorance in the Ummah is?

The Ummah does not understand the basis of this Deen. The reason why they were Created. Tawheed. They don't know it. They lack in the correct understanding of it.

And so what we need to teach them first and foremost is Tawheed and all that which comes with it and everything that nullifies a persons Tawheed and makes them an Apostate. This is the most important of the Religious Knowledge and in fact it is the most obligatory Knowledge to have.

But your saying we can't declare the Rulers to be Tawagheet. Then how will the ignorant Muslim come to know if the Scholars stay queit? As your saying they should stay queit and avoid confrontation.

So in the meantime, they can torture our Scholars and humiliate them on national T.V.

They can rape the women in their prisons. And they can brain wash the youth by their lying and deceitful Scholars?

They can allow the Crusaders Cross Worshippers in to the Land of Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

They can allow the Companion curses to curse them infront of the Ka'bah.

They can kill our Scholars in the lands of the Haramayn. Etc, Etc.

But we say, oh we can't speak out against them and declare they are Tawagheet. Our Scholars have done so. Alhamdulillaah. So, your saying they were wrong to do so? They should have kept queit and let the Ummah sink further into Shirk and Kufr?

What is wrong with declaring our disbelif in them? It's OBLIGATORY to do that and its obligatroy on the Scholars to teach the lay Muslims about this.

Whatever happened to "O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who are the Al-Muttaqoon"

And whatever happened to:

Fight (you) the leaders of disbelief.

Brother, for how many years have we been saying "This is not the right time for a confrontation. It will cause more harm than good. We can't declare them to be Disbelievers, it will cause an uproar."

The Scholars such as ibn 'Uthaymeen, may Allaah Forgive him, were of this view, but the view they took caused more Harm for the Ummah. Becuase the Ummah now thinks these leaders are their Brothers in Islaam!!! Al because Scholars such as Ibn 'Uthaymeen kept their tongues from moving to declare disbelief in these False Gods, thus they misled the Ummah and hid their Knowledge. They didn't mislead the Ummah into anything except the most severe of the misguidance and greatest sins. Taking Partners with Allaah.

**

15

[QUOTE]
Therefore lets not call anyone murtad...etc..
[/QUOTE]

Brother, they are not just any type of Apostates. They are False Deities. Thus the need to delcare our Hatred and Disbelief in them is much greater. Do you understand? If we don't declare the Kaafir to be a Kaafir, we may also end up being a Kaafir. And this is what the Scholars have stated is one of the reasons why Muslims Apostate. Allaah has told us to declare our Disbelief in the False Deities. And, then He told us to believe in Him. The point: First thing ordered from us is to Declare our Disbelief in the False Dieties. You can't say lets not call someone a Murtad etc, becuase Allaah has Commanded us to do that. He Commanded us to shun the False Deities and make the Religion and Worship for Him alone.

So how will the Religon and Worship be for Him Alone, when we refuse to decalre them as Murtadeen and Tawagheet and shun them?

[QUOTE]
because in this way very few would be left as this would also lead to alienation and give the Islamic forces a bad name. Although Izzah is from Allah, but we also do our best to invite with Hikmah and mauizzah tul Hasanah
[/QUOTE]

The Image of Islaam has never been a pretty Image for the Kuffaar. As for alienation, surely we are seeing that now, in this time, at this moment.

And we know this time would happen. And I'm glad you mentioned this as it is a Prophecy of our Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

Brother you don't think the Scholars and Callers have invited the Tawagheet from the house of Sau'd to the Correct Islaam??

Just read the first letters that Usamah ibn Laden sent to them, advising them about their actions of Apostasy. He was very kind and gentle. He advised with Hikmah. But did they listen? No. Rather, their Kufr and Shirk became more severe! These Rulers are not ignorant of what they are doing. They know fine well what they are doing is Apostasy. So what excuse do we have in not declaring them to be Murtadeen??

Akhee, I know your saying "It will cause more harm than good if we start labelling them as Apostates. It will cause more Fitnah for the Ummah."

But what more harm and Fitnah can there be for the Ummah than leading the lay people into Shirk by accepting these Tawaagheet as rightful Legislators along with Allaah Subhanahu.

Forgive me for any harshness or bad manners.

May Allaah grant us all sincerity.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
by accepting these *Tawaagheet as rightful Legislators along with Allaah Subhanahu.

[/QUOTE]

i am sorry for disturbing u in the middle of a very important discussion....

but what is tawagheet????
is it a plural form of taghoot????
if yes, then in which language....
and by what rule....

question asked just to increase my knowledge and not to ridicule....

thanx all....

:)

17

Hope i never get on sister At-Tawheed's bad side... ouch!

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

but what is tawagheet????
is it a plural form of taghoot????
[/QUOTE]

Yes... in Arabic...

19

Dear Readers,

Issalam ale kum,

I wrote every thing correct. It was not a bit of fault of Iranis . It was the mistake of Saudia to be turn the face from their WAADA.

As usual -------all have learnt to stab at the back. Never learn to be honest with some one who believed in your waada .No matter even for a moment.

Was not this monafeqat BAT SAY PHER JANA?

IS NOT THIS MONAFEQAT to have something else in the heart and saying something else.

This is not seyasat it is monafeqat, mind it.

I could never knew if I would have not been on such a forum.

How much some individual are proud of their knowledge.

I do not know if they have perfect knowledge or-----My God they call each other scholars of islam themselves .

Exactly like this mun tura Haji ba goyem, tu mara haji bago.

Is not this true that there is curse of God on kazebeen, monafaqeen and liers.

If person himself and herself is not good; how come that person think others good.

Remember intention is every thing. Neyat is every thing.

If you love some one say Rasoul(P), if you are true lover of your Rasoul(P), you would even love his stool, if you would find it and could reach it.

So those who go to Qabour and cry , and do waiel. It is their love to Rasoul(P) but Rasoul nothing else.

Because all those Ahlal Qubour, you have referred to indirectly, are known only only through the reference of beloved Prophet Rasoul(P)\, otherwise they are nothing to any one , without ---------

There are so many shohadas including all four Khalifas, no one cry for them and no irani does waeil for even at Qabir e Ali.Whose love differs them from Sunnis.

It is very great honourable way of thinking that if some one kisses his child it is not said that you are kissing skin.

But if you kiss Quran which is kept in Jouzdan you call it bedat. Subhanallah.

God is the one who gives Hedayat. He choses to give hedayat to any one. It can never ever be you, if you think so, to be ablke to give Hedayat to any one. I have converted one Jew to muslim.

Note:

Degree of love can not be measured, expression of love does not have boundries. You were too sercastic. You do not have that size of scale by which can measure some ones love for Rasoul's(P) family?

Neither you have reach to the HOUDOUD or AHATA of that expression of love. And by the way who have appointed you to be custodian of others Eman. I had heard a lot but I was not a witness myself, how do you all think and analyse things.

No one has right to call some one kaffir, Who is this Firouni God?
Who is not scared of God. How can a person ---

It was difficult for me to understand yours discussion well , but perhaps I got the gest.
unbeleivable hatred? And you deam for itehad ben ul muslemeen.Another mounafeqat ------
If I could not follow your conversation well then please forgive me, for all what I have written above. It is shocking for me. Thaat we are religiously still so backward.

Wassalam Sokoon

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
what limitations would you require to be placed on the rafidin in the haram brother ibn sadique. and how much blood do you advocate spilling to make them comply?
[/QUOTE]

Brother Ravage sorry for the late reply, I had not noticed that you had addressed me directly.

You will agree that Hajj is an important act of worship which has been ordained by Allah (swt). Our Dear Prophet (saw) has shown us how to perform Hajj. So it is our duty to perform this according to his way (Sunnah).

You will also have to agree that Makkah has always been in the control of the Sunnis. No one to my knowledge has denied the Shia to perform Hajj according to their Fiqh. All the facilities are provided to them to perform the Hajj by the present authorities, roofless buses for example .

Hajj is not the occasion and place for political marches and protest rallies. Sanctity of the place and occasion does not allow it.

It was wrong of the authorities to grant permission to the Iranians to hold demonstrations in that place. But once they had granted it, it was wrong of them to suppress it with brutal force.

I don’t think it was due to religious differences but politics. This kind of incident has never happened before or since. I am sure that if Al Qaida were to hold protests or rallies in Hajj time, the Saudi authorities will act with more brutality if not equal.

Yes, it is right of the authorities to stop anyone performing any ritual acts which where not ordained by Rasool Allah (saw) whether they are carried by Shias, Sunnis or whirling Dervishes. You agree?

I hope that this answers your question.