Mutawatir Ahadith superceding Holy Quran's Ayats

[meherealone]

Re: Mutawatir Ahadith superceding Holy Quran’s Ayats

@picoico

As I wish what? Either one believes or they don’t…anyone can convince themselves they have proof, but more often than not it fails any objective criteria.

Belief is just that. Why on earth be ashamed of that? Either it’s true, or it’s not. Simple.

Well, I don’t know of a single scholar (traditional or otherwise) who espouses such a view. It’s a rather modern perspective…no?

its my own criteria , if you don’t like its up to you

Wasn’t intended as a personal attack…just want to know if you want to discuss this as we would with secular/atheist folk, or believers.

i only say , look towards Quran and hadees with one point of view
either it should be secular or believers
not separate

The Hadith as we know them were compiled well after the Quran.

wrong, from the time of Hazoor PBUH
and he gave premission to write his words to many sahaba

The Quran exhorts the companions to follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh). The Hadith are recordings of some of those examples. It’s a bit inaccurate to say they are one in the same.

have you ever read about wahi matlo and gher matlo ( if i am not forgetting the right name )
that describe that source of both is same

The compilation of the Hadith, the manner in which it was done, and the end result have nothing to do with the revelation and collection of the Quran.

compilation of hadees is different then what ahadees is

Not a single Quranic ayat at any point in Islamic history was subject to the same criteria of validity as the Hadith were. There is no isnad for the Quran…

sorry you forgot , the isnad for Quran is being motawatir , told to many by Hazoor PBUH
and Quran authenticity lies on the fact that you trust that Hazoor PBUH said it is from Allah and he PBUH had never lie.

Sure…
I don’t* believe* that. The Quran makes no such claim. Indeed, if people had even tried, they could not have corrupted the original message

to the extent that it would be lost to us forever. Such is the promise made.

No doubt, that argument doesn’t wash in a secular debate. But then, that’s not the angle I’m approaching this.

First of check either ahadees is part of revelation or not,

002.143
YUSUFALI: Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and **We appointed the Qibla **to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful

---

now just check and find in Quran where Allah had refered to offer prayer by faceing towards first Qibla , to whom in this ayat Allah is saying

“we appointed the Qibla”

if quran is the only devine revelation , then there should be some ayat when Allah had made first qibla for muslim but we can’t find

the Above verse surely describes that there are other revelations to Hazoor PBUH along with Quran , so Quran is not the only revelation and hadees are also the revelations of Allah SWT
Hazoor PBUH have never said anything from his own , he was always guided by Allah SWT
so now if any one says that Ahadees are not revelations , then he is surely on wrong path

now to check that
Allah have saved Ahadees along with Quran

The Quran specifically orders us to follow the hadeeths. Therefore, if we claim to follow the Quran, we also must follow the hadeeth.
Examples:
“And whoever obeys Allah and His mesenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (being saved from the Hell Fire and made to enter the Paradise).” [Quran 33:71]
“And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to live therein forever, and that will be a great success.” [Quran 4:13]
“And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger, fears Allah and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.” [Quran 24:52]
“And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger, He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise); and whoever turns back, He will punish him with a painful torment.” [Quran 48:17]
"Say, (meaning for Muhammad, peace be upon him, to speak to the people) “If you truly love Allah, then follow me. Then only will Allah love you and forgive your sins. He is the Forgiver the Merciful.” [Quran 3:31]

Here is one verse in the Quran that leaves no doubt about the validity of knowing what Muhammad, peace be upon him, has ordered to do and the importance of doing it. This is in [surah Al-Mujadilah 58:8]
“Have you not seen those who were forbidden to hold secret coucels, and afterwards returned to that which they had been forbidden (to do by the messenger Muhammad, peace be upon him), and conspired together for sin and wrong doing and disobedience to the messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him).” - He promises them Hell, burning therein and worse indeed is that destination. [Quran 58:8]
O you who believe! Obey Allah and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. [Quran 4:59]
Say: “Obey Allah and OBEY THE MESSENGER, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad SAW) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah’s Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way).” [Quran 24:54]
O you who believe! Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) and render not vain your deeds. [Quran 47:33]
Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW), but if you turn away, then the duty of Our Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. [Quran 64:12]

**Now pay very close attention to the next two verses, as they do not refer to obeying Allah - only obeying the messenger - clearly proving to anyone that Muhammad, peace be upon him is to be obeyed and it is the same as obeying Allah. **
He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed OBEYED ALLAH, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them. [Quran 4:80]
And perform As­Salat (Iqamat­as­Salat), and give Zakat and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) that you may receive mercy (from Allah). [Quran 24:56]

There can be no doubt that if the Quran is to be preserved (and Allah has promised to do so until the sun rises in the West), then the teachings of the messenger of Allah must also be preserved as well. Therefore, the Quran has clearly indicated we must know about the hadeeth and obey the teachings contained therein, or else suffer the consequences.

No, no non-muslim regards the Hadith as an important historical body of knowledge that should impact how we regulate religious affairs. Do not mistake me for a rejecter of Hadith. But when people make the rather false and lofty claim that the Hadith and the Quran are one in the same, they need to be corrected.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=241487&
check this link
this will inshallah surely helps you