This thread is not about the validity of Mutah marraige. If you are interested in knowing more about it then please use search option
I am interesting in knowing individual perspective of Shia friend towards Mutah and Its practical use in todays age.
Some time ago I read somewhere that in this age when getting married and settling down is taking longer and longer time for guys and girls, because of lenghty education, carrer development and so forth. Mutah can be used as a tool for finding out the durability of a relationship, ofcourse this is only way where couple interested in longer relationship can test and try each other for compatibility and know more about other person, in halal manner ( For Shias atleast )
Now I have some general questions, If some Shia friend likes to answer them
Have you ever considered going for Mutah ( in place of a relationship ) in the past in student life ? Will you consider it in future ? please explain your reasoning.
Is/was there any case of Mutah marraige in your family ? How was the experience ?
what would be your reaction if you get to know about your sibling’s secret Mutah marraige ?
What advice would you give if your sibling takes you into confidence and tells you his/her plan of Mutah marriage to a good person becasue they do not want to engage in sinful activity and since they are students they can not afford a proper marriage either !
These questions are not for Sunni friends, as they are not applicable to them.
ps. Mods please delete off topic replies and please feel free to delete the thread if some fools refuse to comunicate in a civil manner. thanks
Nope. Much like keeping concubines it is looked down upon in our culture, and my family would boot me for it.
Nope.
In shias, a temporary or permanent marriage can only be contracted with the parents/Wali's permission (like Maliki sunnies i believe?..one school of sunnies). So there is no question of a secret marraige.
I would discourage him/her and ask her to take parents into confidence about it, who would doubtless push for the regular nikah. It is, like concubinage, looked down upon in our society, and my parents would have the same reaction if they found I had gone into interior sindh and got myself a baandhi (sp?).
Would you like to share your views on scenario in first paragraph
Is is not better to go for mutah during student life if guy and girl and interested in each other rather than being girl friend boyfriend and spend time with each other ? (especially in western countries )
I am somewhat aware that mutah is a taboo in our society, what about other countries such as Iran, Syria and Iraq ?
its better than being girlfriend / boyfriend for sure, because atleast with Mutah you have concepts of Iddah and rights of inheritance along with the other rights afforded to legal relationships in Islam. That said in today’s culture I can see very few shia parents willing to permit their daughter to contract a temporary marriage instead of a permanent one.
As with most things it is frowned upon in the subcontinent culture. We prefer our girls to be martyrs of cultural diktat and ‘izzat’. Where couples do contract Mutah, the families prefer to keep this information to themselves.
However in the Arab and much more in the iranian society, I think its more common. Usually though its a precursor to a permanent marriage, i.e. a couple wish to get married in the long-term and instead of the long engagements etc, contract Mutah. So its not an off-hand thing. Probably the same amount ‘research’ goes in an for a permanent nikkah.
If your point was to describe iranian culture, fair enough, but I sense a derision of Pakistani muslims, which I dislike. So heres my longwinded reply.
Im not for glamorizing Iranian or Arabic culture at the cost of Pakistani culture. I have the same notions of Izzat as far as they are appropriate and find them of value. Furthermore, the state of women in the arab countries I have lived in is far from model, even in the cases where men try to adhere to the letter of the Islamic laws. For instance in Oman women have going rates and its mainly a buyers market, which to me is an extremely demeaning view of women. They might not have the same notions of Izzat as we do, and I think in some cases the women are not better off for it.
So saying that Pakistani women are martyrs/a victim of izzat and so on doesnt really validate Mutah from my perspective or make it any more desirable, just as it wouldnt make it desirable for me to be told that Pakistani folks are bound by izzat otherwise in Saudi arab they get to enjoy their maidservants.
I hold both concubinage and muta at the same level of respectability, acceptable according to the letter of the law, but highly unacceptable for my sensibilities.
Have you ever considered going for Mutah ( in place of a relationship ) in the past in student life ? Will you consider it in future ? please explain your reasoning.
I haven't really considered it, probably because I'm still not that old so it hasn't been much of an issue
Is/was there any case of Mutah marraige in your family ? How was the experience ?
Nope
what would be your reaction if you get to know about your sibling's secret Mutah marraige ?
I don't think it's allowed to be done in secret, but if my sibling did it, it wouldn't make a difference to me either way.
What advice would you give if your sibling takes you into confidence and tells you his/her plan of Mutah marriage to a good person becasue they do not want to engage in sinful activity and since they are students they can not afford a proper marriage either !
Then I'd say go ahead. If someone has a reason to do something, and it's allowed in his or her religion, why not?
Well ravage so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities, allow me to explain my derision, of which I claim a right to apply equally to all with a judicious pinch of prejudice and blatant bias, whenever it suits me.
Just to make it clear, I have no particular affinity for any of the three cultures mentioned. Taking a stab in the dark, and I may be totally wrong here, I’d say that the iranian society and iraqi/Syrian is in general is more liberal and open than the pakistani society. So just working on that general assumption you’d think it wouldn’t be too far fetched to understand why that particular society is more accepting i.e. why mutah marriage is more prevalent than in the Pakistani society where the simple issue of something like the marriage of a syeda to a non-syed is a call to war.
Pakistani culture like all other highly conservative and feudal cultures feels threatened by females, hence the concept of ghairat and honour, of which the females bear the brunt of it. The pre-islamic custom of killing the infant daughter didn’t come out of the blue you know. It was to defend the family’s ‘honour’ so that she would not be taken by the enemy tribe if defeated in warfare. I do understand that in our culture it may be easier in some instances to justify murder than to grant equality, especially sexual equality to women. Maybe it’s a slip up on your part but I noticed you said parents would not let their daughters, as opposed to sons, contract temporary marriage. Tell me where the concept of izzat doesn’t come into that?
For the Pakistani shias, in this particular issue, the cultural set-up does dictate the outcome and quite heavily too, hence the low rate of Mutah. That’s a fact.
The validation of Mutah is your belief in it. My issue is, i can’t understand why, if your faith allows a particular solution, you would choose to look down upon it because either of societal taboos (read ignorance) or because its too ‘crude’ for your culturally refined self?
Not a slip up, the permission requirement from a wali applies to women. So in this case, the concept of “izzat” is coming from Islam.
The idea of izzat, from Islamic terms, stems from men being the “protectors” of women. While additions might have been made to it to include stuff like honour killings etc, that is not necessarily a part of the idea.
I explained this before. For the same reason that while concubinage is allowed in Islam I would look down on people who go against prevalent cultural norms to keep baandhis or the arabic modern day imported harems. Nor would I expect a woman I employ to go without a fight if I offer her to an angry man because I banged up his car. Every civilization evolves and while Islam provides guidelines for social justice in every time and era, that does not mean we should import wholly obviated practices intolerable to most of those who strive to be civilized while not being “liberal”.
I believe Mut’a is a social evil in Iran, having one case in reasonably close quarters of a middle aged man with a family who caused his family a good deal of hurt by going to Iran on the pretext of ziarat and contracting mutaa with “professionals” who stick to the letter of the law.
Thankyou Sahiqhassan for answering my questions.
Thanks folks for participating in discussion, Much appreciated
However in the Arab and much more in the iranian society, I think its more common. Usually though its a precursor to a permanent marriage, i.e. a couple wish to get married in the long-term and instead of the long engagements etc, contract Mutah. So its not an off-hand thing. Probably the same amount 'research' goes in an for a permanent nikkah.
Humhaipakistani - this is quite interesting practical use of mutah you have mentioned here :) I assume that the the above mentioned case is different than our culture where if nikah is performed before Rukhsati for some reasons It means just a paper contract and the married couple is not allowed to meet or have any physical contact before rukhsati. Correct me if i am wrong
I am not sure if your are a female or not, in former case can you answer a few questions
From a woman/girl's perspective what is the enticement to go for a temporery marriage. I am specially interested in knowing why a women (who was married in the past ) would go Mutah instead of a regular marraige ?
ravage - Just to clarify the rule here
I understand the restriction for asking permission from wali ( shia and Maliki schools of thought ) are only for unmarried girls, and not for those who have been married before, is that the case ?
And in case if the wali does not agree with girls choice, the nikah can not be performed ? in the absence of father/grand father, if the wali's long term monetary interests lies in subjugation of girl then what ?
Although Supreme court of Pakistan and my self do not agree with shia or maliki school of thought on this issue. Lets save it for another thread.
Ravage mian maybe you’re getting a bit caught up in your moment of jhanda-waving ecsatcy, but you’re confusing ‘izzat’ with social politeness. The question, is, would the Nikah contracted by the girl be valid, if the permission of the wali is not given or asked? If you scroll down the same link you’ve given, you have the answer right there:
2386 In the following situations, it will not be necessary for a woman to seek the permission of her father or paternal grandfather, before getting married:
1. If she is not a virgin.
2. If she is a virgin, but her father or paternal grandfather refuse to grant permission to her for marrying a man who is compatible to her in the eyes of Shariah, as well as custom.
3. If the father and the grandfather are not in any way willing to participate in the marriage.
4. If they are not in a capacity to give their consent, like in the case of mental illness etc.
5. If it is not possible to obtain their permission because of their absence, or such other reasons, and the woman is eager to get married urgently.
[quote]
I believe Mut'a is a social evil in Iran, having one case in reasonably close quarters of a middle aged man with a family who caused his family a good deal of hurt by going to Iran on the pretext of ziarat and contracting mutaa with "professionals" who stick to the letter of the law.
[/quote]
the hurt and sense of betrayal felt by the family would have been the same if the guy in question had contracted a permanent second marriage without the permission of the wife. Do you condemn all multiple marriages to be a social ill, an obsolete practise too? In my opinion, as with most things in life, it all depends on individual circumstance.
Yes it is different, the contact would be the same as is normal nikah or should be. See leaving the temporary marriage thing aside for a bit. This nikah versus rukhsati issue highlights my point with culture dictating the outcome. When the nikah is recited before rukhsati, islamically and legally even in the pakistani courts, the couple are husband and wife. Then tradition kicks in to prevent couples from having contact. Why, I don’t understand.
There is no enticement. There is no romance. It boils down to sad harsh realities of life. A previously married woman is likely to be in her mid-twenties, early thirties at least. You know how its like when a girl reaches 24/25 in our culture and its probably the same other cultures too. The prospects for marrige go sharply downhill if she’s divorced or has kids. Temporary marriage may be seen as an alternative which places little or no responsibility on her, with both partners having the freedom to draw up the contract as they like, which is not the case in a permanent marriage. For men too, there is a certain freedom, one of the big issues for guys arranging marriage these days is the financial concern and so they might for example delay marriage for that reason. In a permanent marriage, the guy is bound by law to provide for his wife. Not so in a temporary marriage where it again depends on the contract drawn up. I don’t think Mutah can replace permanent marriage. But perhaps it is a good alternative.
its interesting to note that there’s no long list of wali, its limited to father/paternal grandfather.
There you have it then, if the marriage flies in the face of custom and the wali objects on that basis she cannot override it.
good point. Unlike Mut’aa I can see myself accepting multiple marraiges in extremely “individual” circumstances. Taking on a second marraige IMO is a much bigger hassle than going to iran, paying for Mut’a and never hearing about it again. However if a second marriage is contracted by a guy in his forties with two children merely for the sake of gratification, I would view it in the same terms as this. Unfortunately, unlike multiple marraiges, theres very few non-gratification related uses of Mut’aa that I can think of (remember the root of the word Mut’a is the same as that of tamatt’u (to extract pleasure)).
b. As posted by hhp, their objection only stands if its valid accoridng to shariah and custom. I dont think that if the objection is to preserve long term monetary interests then from a shia legal perspective the wali’s objection would stand.
To me, it is simply good manners to ask parents permission and has nothing to do with ‘honour’.
so your interpretation is that custom overrides sharia?
so for you it boils down to emotive reasons. fair enough. But still no reason to shoot down the the concept of mutah and put it on par with, as seems from your words on adultery. Marriage, permanent or otherwise IS about gratification, but within the legal framework. What’s your issue with gratification?
Oh I agree, asking one’s parents for permission is manners. But the problem with this argument is that we’re debating without defining the meaning of terms.
When I speak of pakistani concepts of family izzat (which also means respect) that includes the concept of marrying with their permission, and there is no reason why basic manners and decency cannot also be expectations for honour/respect.
In some matters, yes. There is halal, haram and mubah. Where mubah has no inherent islamic significance and is “allowed”. Valid cultural norms fall in this category. And in certain circumstances (for example if a wali wishes it) what is mubah may become binding. So here you have an example of custom overriding sharia, as long as the custom itself isnt haram.
Even if I accept your argument that the reason is emotive, a lot of human reactions of preference and distaste are based on emotions. Nor is something being emotive automatically irrational. thats non sequiter. Perhaps if we were discussing physics your argument of it being emotive might make sense, but not when we’re discussing what is acceptable in today’s Muslim society and what isnt.
I did not put it at par with adultery, i put it at par with concubinage and regularized prostitution.
And lastly marraige ISNT entirely about gratification, there is much more to family life, Im sure you’ll agree, than the sex life of the husband and wife.
Just to sum it up:
You take exception to my initial point about Pakistani culture not permitting mutah, you yourself do not agree with its practise for reasons of it not being socially acceptable in today’s day and age. And now we’re going round in circles.
With respect to marriage, the ‘izzat ka sawal’ in our culture as per your meaning is often used to blackmail the individual in question. If for example you can so easily deride mutah, on the basis that it is misused, then don’t you think the same can be said about this so called izzat you cling to, which is so often and so widely abused in our culture?
The trouble with social acceptability is its faddy nature. If tomorrow temporary marriage becomes acceptable and trendy, obviously you wouldn’t have a problem with it. Or would you?
From our frame of reference today, with marriage reduced to something of a circus show where we might question the whole point of it, its probably quite hard to understand its importance at all. Nevertheless from an Islamic perspective, it has a lot to do with proper expression of natural urges, the rest is secondary.
No, you are :p. You didnt understand my initial point I guess. What I took exception to was not that mutahs negative connotations are cultural for us, but that you seemed to imply that such cultural view of mutah is based on antiquated unislamic notions of izzat, and the poor mutah yearning females in pakistan are martyrs in the name of cultural diktats (which they are, but for other issues) and in more authentic settings (such as iran and arabia) that is not the case.
Yes, I hate those aspects of our culture and “izzat”. The problem with the izzat term is that it is incorporating a whole bunch of cultural norms, some of which are good some of which are bad some really bad. The blackmail you mention clearly falls in that category.
Depends. Sleevelesses are trendy. I have a problem with them, as would most people that form the little cultural subset that I belong to. As long as its not popular in that subsubsubset that Im a member of, I dont think it will influence my thoughts.
The problem for you is that the subset against muta is a pretty big chunk of shi’at.
